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NotSynpax

Is there a counter to this clan lineup? I'm guessing not....

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Is there a game theory optimal counter to one conq and seven moskvas? 

 

I ran into this tonight and found it rather unstoppable. I can't think of a good counter. A lot of long-distance torping doesn't seem viable. 

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Try 7 Khabarovsks and burn them all to the ground

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6 hours ago, Black_Sheep9 said:

Seven Khabs?

4 minutes ago, FireAndHEspam said:

Try 7 Khabarovsks and burn them all to the ground

Umm...I take it you've never tried fighting a Moskva with a Khabarovsk.  That is a horrible idea.  

 

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15 minutes ago, yashma said:

Umm...I take it you've never tried fighting a Moskva with a Khabarovsk.  That is a horrible idea.  

 

I have about ~700 battles in the Khab. I’ve fought Moskvas more times then I can count. Trick to beating them? Make sure you’re outside of Radar range and just set a fire or two, force his Damacon, then light him up again. Once he’s burning like a 4th of July BBQ, disengage and reposition. Rinse and repeat

Edited by FireAndHEspam

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12 minutes ago, FireAndHEspam said:

I have about ~700 battles in the Khab. I’ve fought Moskvas more times then I can count. Trick to beating them? Make sure you’re outside of Radar range and just set a fire or two, force his Damacon, then light him up again. Once he’s burning like a 4th of July BBQ, disengage and reposition. Rinse and repeat

Fair enough, but all things considered I would still take a Moskva over the Khaba and have serious doubts Khaba spam would be of any use it against Moskva spam.

Edited by yashma

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4 minutes ago, yashma said:

Fair enough, but all things considered I would still take a Moskva over the Khaba and have serious doubts Khaba spam would be of any use it against Moskva spam.

It really depends on what kind of spam you want; very heavy and hard hittings shells with a lower RoF or a constant flow of relatively light yet potent shells

Edited by FireAndHEspam

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5 minutes ago, FireAndHEspam said:

It really depends on what kind of spam you want; very heavy and hard hittings shells with a lower RoF or a constant flow of relatively light yet potent shells

I was just referring to the context of clan wars.  I still think 6 Moskva's would be able to win a fight against 7 Khaba's.  I don't doubt that a well driven Khaba could beat a pub Moskva, *I've done it myself, but the advantage squarely lies with the Moskva.  And while the Conqueror would struggle to hit the Khaba's, if it did its AP is absolutely fantastic against DDs. 

Edited by yashma

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2 minutes ago, FireAndHEspam said:

It really depends on what kind of spam you want; very heavy and hard hittings shells with a lower RoF or a constant flow of relatively light yet potent shells

 

 I prefer hard hitting shells with good RoF.

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29 minutes ago, yashma said:

Umm...I take it you've never tried fighting a Moskva with a Khabarovsk.  That is a horrible idea.  

As someone who wrote a pretty substantial Moskva guide a few months back, there isn't much I hate more than Khabarovsks.  That stupid 50mm armor belt takes your flat arcs and turns them on their head - with the shallower angle of approach, it's harder to hit the unarmored parts of the ship since most of the hull is armored enough to shatter your HE.  You can land hits all the time thanks to the railguns - the trick is getting RNG to cooperate so they actually do damage.

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3 minutes ago, ValkyrWarframe said:

As someone who wrote a pretty substantial Moskva guide a few months back, there isn't much I hate more than Khabarovsks.  That stupid 50mm armor belt takes your flat arcs and turns them on their head - with the shallower angle of approach, it's harder to hit the unarmored parts of the ship since most of the hull is armored enough to shatter your HE.  You can land hits all the time thanks to the railguns - the trick is getting RNG to cooperate so they actually do damage.

Khaba's are admittedly too rare to get consistent experience fighting them, but I've never had any problem dealing with them in my Moskva.  Then again, most Khab's just run away the moment I start scoring hits on them, which does not help my sample size.

Edited by yashma

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4 minutes ago, yashma said:

I was just referring to the context of clan wars.  I still think 6 Moskva's would be able to win a fight against 7 Khaba's.  I don't doubt that a well driven Khaba could beat a pub Moskva, *I've done it myself, but the advantage squarely lies with the Moskva.  And while the Conqueror would struggle to hit the Khaba's, if it did its AP is absolutely fantastic against DDs. 

Conq has half the normal AP fuse det times. 0.015sec compared to the standard 0.033sec. As for Moskva vs Khabarovsk, Khab is an armored destroyer with hull armor thick enough to shatter Moskva HE at point blank range. Yet Moskva still has the 0.033sec fuse det times so her AP can easily overpen unless you hit squarely in the center of the hull, which isn’t always easy even for a Moskva. In the end it all comes down to the skill gap between the two players, IMO

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1 minute ago, FireAndHEspam said:

Conq has half the normal AP fuse det times. 0.015sec compared to the standard 0.033sec. As for Moskva vs Khabarovsk, Khab is an armored destroyer with hull armor thick enough to shatter Moskva HE at point blank range. Yet Moskva still has the 0.033sec fuse det times so her AP can easily overpen unless you hit squarely in the center of the hull, which isn’t always easy even for a Moskva. In the end it all comes down to the skill gap between the two players, IMO

 

Please try to counter Moskvas with Khabs.

 

Sincerely,

The people who know what we're doing

:cap_like:

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So besides 7 Khabs...what would work to counter?

 

I don't have a Moskva or Conq, and surprisingly little experience fighting them in Tier X ships, so I may be way off base, but how about a super-tank-build Montana, 3 Gearings, and 3 Khabs?

 

Team focuses on one or two ships at a time, Montana absorbs the damage and shoots AP at opportune targets, Khabs run around setting fires to burn DCs, Gearings supply hammer-and-anvil outside-Moskva-radar-range torpedoes and cycle some smoke for the Montana and Khabs to take turns chilling in to heal.

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10 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Were people expecting any different from Moskva dominating?  That's the surprise, IMO.

 

Its not all about the ship choices, and there are different combinations that should be highly effective. 

For example:  Conqueror, 2 Moskvas, 2 Hindenbergs, a Shima and a Z-52. Why?  Moskvas have radar but Hindenbergs have DPS plus awesome Hydro, so they can travel in pairs. Shima and Z-52 compliment each other. Shima can torp from outside Moskva radar range. Z-52 can beat any other T-10 DD if played right and has awesome Hydro too. 

I'm not saying that's THE answer. Just a workable possibility. 

An important point some seem to ignore is that a great player isn't great in a ship he's never played before. Seeing three rental Zaos on the opposing team last night made me happy. 

Edited by Landing_Skipper

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On 10/19/2017 at 11:41 AM, HellaCopterRescue said:

LieutenantLipton was kind enought to get me replay when I found out his team took down a 1 Conq and 6 Moskvas team from NADO. Here is the replay:

https://replayswows.com/replay/7481

 

Its very interesting for sure.

 

 

How do you play the video?

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On 10/19/2017 at 7:08 AM, PelicanHazard said:

So besides 7 Khabs...what would work to counter?

 

I don't have a Moskva or Conq, and surprisingly little experience fighting them in Tier X ships, so I may be way off base, but how about a super-tank-build Montana, 3 Gearings, and 3 Khabs?

 

Team focuses on one or two ships at a time, Montana absorbs the damage and shoots AP at opportune targets, Khabs run around setting fires to burn DCs, Gearings supply hammer-and-anvil outside-Moskva-radar-range torpedoes and cycle some smoke for the Montana and Khabs to take turns chilling in to heal.

moskva is pretty strong because it can tank lot of dmg and has long range laser guns with long range radar.   anything khab can do henri can do better anyway.       i am not even the best moskva player, but it just has too many useful tools not to bring it  (esp when most of my clan members don't have it yet). 

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It's been beaten and no I'm not going to tell you how it was done. 

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