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LittleWhiteMouse

Last Chance for Mikhail Kutuzov and Belfast

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41 minutes ago, V1triol said:

Kutuzov has been on sale for a long long time and has been stupidly OP since release, why only now would they remove it?

 

Frankly I think they should nerf premiums and give people compensation.  At least that would give WG some financial incentive to actually test and balance premiums properly rather than just release ships without much thought as they seem to be doing.  Pretty obvious to anyone that has played the game a bit that smoke and radar in combination is a terrible idea and of course the Belfast is not a fun ship to play against.

lol when it was released, the story was it was crap because it was so fragile.  Mikhail Citadelovich it was called.

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I'll agree with LWM about the high pressure sales tactics. That's the one thing about WG that has always ground my gears, these "limited time sales" of premiums in the shop, trying to pressure players into making impulse buys. And now this nonsense with the MK and Belfast - either way, it's a win-win for them - the player either ends up with a pixel ship in a video game, or fictional currency in a video game - and they end up with real world money...

If I were really interested in either ship, I would have bought them long ago. The only thing this does is push my opinion of WG's business practices even more to the negative column.

Sorry WG, but in this case, "NO SALE".

 

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I'm curious what/if any impact this will have on competitive games.  Will the tournament organizers still allow Kutuzov even though not everyone has access to it any longer?  I don't do the competitive scene, but I am interested in the things they do.

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19 minutes ago, NeutralState said:

The ONLY reason a for profit company offers refunds is because they've done their research and knows the product is either defective or not lived up to advertisement.

 

First of all these were two reasons, therefore the word "only" is not appropriate. And the other reason in addition to these two you mentioned is that they can offer a refund since the ship is now in a slightly different state than it was when people bought it.

 

Smoke changes won't make much difference to Belfast's performance, even though I'm not a huge fan, I prefer the main line of RN cruisers better. Maybe, it will go from completely OP to just very-very good, but the ship will still be solid and the main strength, i.e. the combo of smoke+ hydro + radar, is still there.

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I was sorta tempted to buy one of these two when they first came out. However since their being removed from the shop I don't have any interest in buying them now.

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3 hours ago, Helmut__Kohl said:

 

Do you realize, how quickly Belfast can kill a DD at 5.28km ? 

No one will come that close in randoms. With radar it is certain death. 

JUST a Belfast? Not fast enough. If the DD is going that close it's because they know they have cruiser and BB support to delete it..

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3 hours ago, Crucis said:

For me, the question is this.  With the smoke changes, is the Belfast good enough to keep or should one just sell it for the doubloons?  (I don't really care for keeping a ship for the sake of collecting ships.)  I'm sorely tempted to see it to get back the doubloons.

 

If the smoke changes are anything like they are talking about, destroyers and light cruisers like Belfast will not be hit nearly as hard as heavy cruisers and battleships.  Ships like Belfast should still have good cover within a smoke screen.  Battleship players who are used to using smoke screens to fire at enemies with impunity are in for a rude awakening.  Heavier ships will need to learn how to use smoke screens to maneuver behind them out of sight of the enemy (like a bb or ca that needs to turn and present a momentary flat broadside to an enemy or just needs some cover to get the heck out of Dodge, rather than to use them as a base of fire.    

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47 minutes ago, Retnav54 said:

I'll agree with LWM about the high pressure sales tactics. That's the one thing about WG that has always ground my gears, these "limited time sales" of premiums in the shop, trying to pressure players into making impulse buys. And now this nonsense with the MK and Belfast - either way, it's a win-win for them - the player either ends up with a pixel ship in a video game, or fictional currency in a video game - and they end up with real world money...

If I were really interested in either ship, I would have bought them long ago. The only thing this does is push my opinion of WG's business practices even more to the negative column.

Sorry WG, but in this case, "NO SALE".

 

 Fortunately I own both the Belfast and the Kutuzov which has always been my favorite ship.  I do agree with these sentiments though, and find these pressure tactics very off-putting. 

They also have so-called "specials" that never change, ergo how are they specials?  Like the flag packages are always the same, and recently they had any amount of doubloons with a credit card when in fact the price is still the same before and after the "sale."  

I also do not understand the logic of removing the ships at all.   So now those of us that have the ships will always have them in those that do not have them will never have them.   If you massively Nerf the ships and that is pretty annoying to those of us who own and love the ships.  I would love a Gremy please. Is the Scharnhorst next?  I'm not getting the logic in removing the ships whether they are changed or not.  What is the net gain here?

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44 minutes ago, crzyhawk said:

lol when it was released, the story was it was crap because it was so fragile.  Mikhail Citadelovich it was called.

Because it was buffed to stupid levels; increase in rate of fire (from 6.75 to 7.5 rounds/min), firing range (from 15,910 m to 19,100 m) and turret traverse speed (from 5.4 degrees per second to 7.2 degrees per second). This was done to compensate for the chance in BFT, EM, and AFT skills.

 

That was equivalent of SEVEN skill points that MK drivers no longer had to invest in their build.

 

Unless you had a Gremmy, you didn't have anything except 3 point captains at first in the MK. No elite captain XP at the time and the crate system was not around either.

 

Go play a MK with a 3 point captain and restrict yourself to the specs that a pre-buff MK had. Not fun.

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3 hours ago, Crucis said:

For me, the question is this.  With the smoke changes, is the Belfast good enough to keep or should one just sell it for the doubloons?  (I don't really care for keeping a ship for the sake of collecting ships.)  I'm sorely tempted to see it to get back the doubloons.

The nerf will have negligible impact on Belfast imo.  With over 400 games in the Belfast I VERY rarely trust my smoke to save me inside 5.3 KM which is the new visibility range I think.  If I am being smoke-rushed, I will bail before the enemy ship is inside 9km.  That doesnt change.  If I am not being rushed, I just have to have an escape plan if I choose to engage inside 9km, but usually I like to engage at 10-13km.  If a DD sneaks in close enough to light me up at 5.3 KM, I will immediately go to full throttle, mash radar and eliminate him with extreme predjudice.  Hell at 5.3 he is close to hydro range.

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2 minutes ago, murryhawk said:

If I sold my Perth I would have a wasted 19 pt captain, or do they take the captain away too?

it wouldn't, but i don't think you'd have anything left to use it on.

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2 minutes ago, HazardDrake said:

Because it was buffed to stupid levels; increase in rate of fire (from 6.75 to 7.5 rounds/min), firing range (from 15,910 m to 19,100 m) and turret traverse speed (from 5.4 degrees per second to 7.2 degrees per second). This was done to compensate for the chance in BFT, EM, and AFT skills.

 

That was equivalent of SEVEN skill points that MK drivers no longer had to invest in their build.

 

Unless you had a Gremmy, you didn't have anything except 3 point captains at first in the MK. No elite captain XP at the time and the crate system was not around either.

 

Go play a MK with a 3 point captain and restrict yourself to the specs that a pre-buff MK had. Not fun.

I played the MK pre-buff.  I had it on PT, and I also bought it as soon as it came out. 

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1 minute ago, SeraphicRadiance said:

it wouldn't, but i don't think you'd have anything left to use it on.

Vampire should be out soon lol

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2 hours ago, Dianeces said:

 

These are some serious rose-tinted glasses. There were three things that really caused all the fuss about the Type 59 when it came out. First, it routinely saw tier 5 tanks which were literally helpless to do anything to it; secondly, you would often see teams where five or six of the 15 tank team were Types and that gets old very fast; and finally, for whatever reason the Type seemed to inspire pubbies who would otherwise be brain-dead idiots to actually work together more often than not. When it came out the Type 59 was OP, but not nearly as much as people like to talk about. From the time it was released until the time I quit (~2015), the Type 59 was not ever seriously (directly) nerfed. It was changed prior to the release of the Chinese tree to bring some of its stats in line with the rest of the Chinese tanks, but the net effect was essentially zero. The only changes that really effected it were the tightening of the MM spread, the general power creep of WoT, and the introduction of premium rounds for silver. The Type is probably still a better than average tank at this point, but its overpoweredness was due in large part to its circumstances rather than the tank itself. The Belfast, on the other hand, is disgustingly OP precisely because of what it brings to the table. Excellent concealment for its tier, smoke to hide in, radar for spotting, hydro so you don't get choobed in your smoke like an idiot, HE so you can actually reliably stack DoTs instead of hoping for lucky torpedo hits. I could keep going but you get the point. The Belfast is extremely versatile and very capable of killing the high influence ships that win games. The Belfast also uptiers extremely well, so even a change to the MM such that tier sevens aren't routinely top tier would not be the end of the world. The tl;dr of all of this is that I would say the Belfast is easily more OP than the Type.

 

You and I remember the Type 59 differently. 

 

When it came out, it's only real weakness to tanks of its tier, and even higher tiers, was it's weak ammo rack (I once ammo racked 3 Type 59s in one match, in the early days). Once people figured out they needed a WAR on that tank, it's only real flaw was mitigated. 

 

The Type was extremely difficult for same tier tanks to penetrate from the front. The tracks ate a lot of shots from the side. The early version was very mobile and could circle most enemies easily. You could go into any match with a Type and, assuming you weren't horribly up-tiered, you could expect to dominate that round. And since the Type had preferential matchmaking, it never really was horribly up-tiered in those early days. 

 

Later, when they introduced silver "gold" rounds, the Type's ridiculous money making ability let you fire gold rounds all match long and still make bank. 

 

The real nerf to the Type 59 was the tweaks to terrain which took away a lot of its mobility, plus, as you mentioned, the general power creep. When I quit WoT over a year ago, it was STILL a better than average tank. 

 

The Belfast has some great tools, to be sure, and it is OP, but it can't shrug off hits like the early Type 59 could. You can't bully battleships in a Belfast like you could heavies in a Type 59. 

 

It feels like we're just arguing whether or not Ferrari or Lamborghini is better. 

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19 minutes ago, crzyhawk said:

I played the MK pre-buff.  I had it on PT, and I also bought it as soon as it came out. 

Good, so you realize that at the time it required a captain of a level that most people did not have.

 

I also do not remember, what state were IJN torpedoes in at the time? Getting flushed from smoke is bad for any cruiser.

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IJN torps were much stronger.  I'm not an IJN DD fan, but it's a travesty how much they have been gutted.  I can honestly accept the torp nerfs, but if you're going to do that, you have to make the guns better.

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3 hours ago, HazardDrake said:

Because it was buffed to stupid levels; increase in rate of fire (from 6.75 to 7.5 rounds/min), firing range (from 15,910 m to 19,100 m) and turret traverse speed (from 5.4 degrees per second to 7.2 degrees per second). This was done to compensate for the chance in BFT, EM, and AFT skills.

 

That was equivalent of SEVEN skill points that MK drivers no longer had to invest in their build.

 

Unless you had a Gremmy, you didn't have anything except 3 point captains at first in the MK. No elite captain XP at the time and the crate system was not around either.

 

Go play a MK with a 3 point captain and restrict yourself to the specs that a pre-buff MK had. Not fun.

 

I remember the days of BFT, AFT fully buffing 155mm and lower guns. 

Cleveland reached out to around 17km.

Mogami?  I remember her range being much longer than it is now, but I didn't have her at the time.

Konigsberg reached out to 19km, she was my FAVORITE Cruiser at the time.

Omaha-class CLs had much longer, safer ranges to engage with.  At the time, Omaha had a nickname, "OPmaha."  Now?  "Target Ship."

 

On and on.  CLs were gutted and I was highly amused Kutuzov was buffed to have Pre-BFT/AFT Nerf CL Gunnery while everyone else lost it.  For Free in points.

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5 hours ago, HazardDrake said:

JUST a Belfast? Not fast enough. If the DD is going that close it's because they know they have cruiser and BB support to delete it..

 

The same can happen to you right now with hydro, or even with proxy spotting. 

5.28km will not make difference there. 

Edited by Helmut__Kohl

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Before the TD vision nerf in WOT I felt dirty running around in my SU-85B with 30x zoom mod and racking up 10 kill games....while bottom tier. 

Belfast is worse. Nice to know this cancer is no longer being sold. Never understood WGs logic of producing OPd vehicles and ships and then pulling them...because they are too OPd.

 

 

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4 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

 

I remember the days of BFT, AFT fully buffing 155mm and lower guns. 

Cleveland reached out to around 17km.

Mogami?  I remember her range being much longer than it is now, but I didn't have her at the time.

Konigsberg reached out to 19km, she was my FAVORITE Cruiser at the time.

 

 

Konigsberg was my favorite at that time too, for the same reason. 

 

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Too many seal clubber on NA and not enough population compared EU. This is understandable. Sadly NA server feel often like World of Premiums or Padder div with all the British sailor. Was to be expected and I won't play those nations anyway, got three that I worked on and it's enough for me for now.

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15 hours ago, Helmut__Kohl said:

Kutuzov will be spotted in smoke at 7.7km and has no radar to counter that. 

Belfast will be spotted at 5.3km and has 8.5km radar to spot back. 

 

Belfast will be the most legendary and most wanted OP ship in the game.

Type 59 of Warships. 


I hope so, I just bought it.

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Well since Kutuzov is being put in the "who cares if it's OP since you can't buy it" category, would this be a good time to ask for her 1979-present AA suite with 8x AK-230? Because it doesn't shred enough planes currently. :cap_haloween:

Kutuzov.thumb.jpg.5073bc965cc5f338090f7e2253e228b2.jpg

Also Belfast and Kutuzov are now officially recognized as too OP but Saipan is still fine? Ugh.

Edited by Lord_Magus

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