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LittleWhiteMouse

Last Chance for Mikhail Kutuzov and Belfast

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Belfast is OP now with smoke + radar. After the patch you better be with the Fiji, it has heal and torps, Belfast has nothing left, smoke not anymore, heal? kope? torps? nope range? nope. Kutuzov smoke or not will still remain decent strong, because of the range + reload time + AA + HE spam. So I think Belfast she is a goner unless the give her the missing torps and or heal.

 

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1 hour ago, Maggie_Saito said:

Thank you Mz. Mouse. I wish I would have bought Perth also. I believe its the right choice by WG but sad to see them go. 

I don't think Perth was permanently removed, so it should make a return.

I have been on the fence for Kutuzov.  I just bulldozed the fence with a Caterpillar.  Haz Kutuzov now, Comrade.

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3 minutes ago, pufek said:

Belfast is OP now with smoke + radar. After the patch you better be with the Fiji, it has heal and torps, Belfast has nothing left, smoke not anymore, heal? kope? torps? nope range? nope. Kutuzov smoke or not will still remain decent strong, because of the range + reload time + AA + HE spam. So I think Belfast she is a goner unless the give her the missing torps and or heal.

 

 

Unlike Belfast, Fiji has no Radar. 

You will be spotted in your smoke and there will be nothing you can do. 

And your Fiji is a one-shot for BBs as well, no heal can prevent that. 

 

Belfast will still be super OP at 5.28km spotting range. Thinking otherwise is silly. 

Edited by Helmut__Kohl

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59 minutes ago, Maggie_Saito said:

Herr Panzerlin, nonrelevant question who is it in your Avitar. looks like seen picture in past. I started collecting ships awhile ago. Do not play many except Scharnhorst. (beautiful vessel) . 

Raymond A. Spruance

The man responsible for the critical decisions made at Midway and who kept my country (Canada) free of threat of invasion by blunting Japanese success at sea.  I made him my avatar for that originally but once I actually read about how he ran his command (by the book but not inflexible to changing battle-conditions, everyone knew what was happening because orders were up to date, etc) I compared him to other Admirals I read about in the period and ranked him highest in competence.

So as far as significant foreigners in history go, I value Admiral Spruance as a friend to Canada because we were not ready to repel a determined amphibious strike.  A lot of damage could have happened to our nice coastal cities although long term it would have been beaten off by US/Canadian troops who don't have the entire Pacific to traverse before supplying the army.  Japan was going to lose, but treatment of civilians elsewhere means I may not have had certain relatives at the end of all the fighting...

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1 minute ago, Helmut__Kohl said:

 

Unlike Belfast, Fiji has no Radar. 

You will be spotted on your smoke and there will be nothing you can do. 

 

And your Fiji is a one-shot for BBs as well, no heal can prevent that. 

I can do way more damage with the Fiji than in Belfast. And I use smoke 35% of the time so no big deal there. Just look at the pros and cons for both you do the math.

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5 minutes ago, pufek said:

I can do way more damage with the Fiji than in Belfast. And I use smoke 35% of the time so no big deal there. Just look at the pros and cons for both you do the math.

 

Good for you, but Belfast Radar has a bigger impact on the capture points. 

People will be crying for this ship, when it will be unavailable. 

 

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15 minutes ago, desmo_2 said:

I don't think Perth was permanently removed, so it should make a return.

I have been on the fence for Kutuzov.  I just bulldozed the fence with a Caterpillar.  Haz Kutuzov now, Comrade.

I hope to see her after this job complete in few weeks. Her and Aurora. Going to take train across Russa Trans Siberian and see as many museums of military devices I can. I went to Black sea last year but did not have enough time to Kutusov. then or the submarine. You will like Kutuzov fun ship.  

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Belfast remains my highest winrate ship over a reasonable amount of games, 81% last I checked. The ship is absolutely disgusting in the power it has to influence games. I actually predict it becoming even more OP due to the 5.28km detection range...if any DD is close enough to spot you firing, the tools you have almost certainly means you will kill them. The thing is already a mutilator of DDs and scourge of the cap circles, getting an early warning of prey wandering close to you is not a bad thing unless you're horribly vulnerable to multiple enemy ships. 

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22 minutes ago, Helmut__Kohl said:

 

Nothing will change for Belfast. 

If you sell it, you will be sorry. 

Not much will change for Kutz either - my effective range for smoke has always been 12-15 km.. I won't sell either ship - especially for gold (what would I spend it on flags?)

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2 minutes ago, SeraphicRadiance said:

Belfast remains my highest winrate ship over a reasonable amount of games, 81% last I checked. The ship is absolutely disgusting in the power it has to influence games. I actually predict it becoming even more OP due to the 5.28km detection range...if any DD is close enough to spot you firing, the tools you have almost certainly means you will kill them. The thing is already a mutilator of DDs and scourge of the cap circles, getting an early warning of prey wandering close to you is not a bad thing unless you're horribly vulnerable to multiple enemy ships. 


With the exception that the mino has to choose between smoke or radar. This disgusting thing has both and Hydro ontop of that...

Belfast is a ship with a very niche role and it excels at that roll very much. It's a terror of DD and other light cruisers who depend on smoke.

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3 hours ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

It's been making the rounds, but let me put this in plain English:

If you do not own Mikhail Kutuzov or Belfast,
Today (October 17th) is your last chance to buy these premium ships before they're removed.

iLFTGVE.jpg8jslc6H.jpgCCSKISe.jpg
They will be gone from the store after the 0.6.12 patch (which drops tomorrow, apparently), and they will NOT be directly sold going forward.  They will not be returning to the online store or the in game tech tree.  This is similar to what has happened to the Kamikaze-sisters, Gremyashchy, König Albert and Imperator Nikolai I. 

Sadly, there is no opportunity to grab Perth after this announcement.

 

Now, I had wanted to do complete updates on my reviews of these two ships.  I'm sorry to say that I was told this was coming from some time and I was hoping there would be more warning.  My finalized reviews were contingent upon getting the smoke data changes and these just weren't available to me until today.  So, that's a missed opportunity there.  I will try and have finalized reviews of these ships (and Perth) updated before the end of  0.6.14 before the refund date rolls around.  My preliminary opinion is that these smoke changes will not adversely affect Belfast or Mikhail Kutuzov significantly given their range and usual method of operations.  I'm still waiting to have more data before I can draw my conclusions about Perth.

For those of you who have been sitting on the fence regarding these ships, I would strongly suggest you pull the trigger.  Be aware you do have the opportunity to get a full refund in Doubloons before 0.6.14 regardless if you have played the ships or not, so this presents a rare opportunity to "rent" the ship and try it out for yourself with little risk.

I agree with you.  I have nearly 400 games in my Belfast, and over 200 in my Kutuzov, so not a small sample size.  I can tell you I do not think that this nerf is going to have a MAJOR impact on the ships.  I think they will still be very, very good ships.  For how I play them, I envision very little change in effectiveness.  Kutuzov will likely be impacted more than Belfast will.  If you were on the fence with these ships, I recommend them both.  If you can only afford 1, I recommend Belfast and Kutuzov in that order.

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17 minutes ago, Panzerlin said:

Raymond A. Spruance

The man responsible for the critical decisions made at Midway and who kept my country (Canada) free of threat of invasion by blunting Japanese success at sea.  I made him my avatar for that originally but once I actually read about how he ran his command (by the book but not inflexible to changing battle-conditions, everyone knew what was happening because orders were up to date, etc) I compared him to other Admirals I read about in the period and ranked him highest in competence.

So as far as significant foreigners in history go, I value Admiral Spruance as a friend to Canada because we were not ready to repel a determined amphibious strike.  A lot of damage could have happened to our nice coastal cities although long term it would have been beaten off by US/Canadian troops who don't have the entire Pacific to traverse before supplying the army.  Japan was going to lose, but treatment of civilians elsewhere means I may not have had certain relatives at the end of all the fighting...

Herr Panzerlin you say buy book do you have title I will order?. Curious about war though know only what has been graciously presented to me here. I resided in Edmonton Alberta, for 8 mo with a great Aunt and Uncle. But got sent back to Japan. Alberta most beautiful. Saw Vancouver also They have (float? sea-planes?) that go to Vancouver Island always wanted to do that. Your country is beautiful.

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19 minutes ago, Panzerlin said:

and who kept my country (Canada) free of threat of invasion by blunting Japanese success at sea.   

So as far as significant foreigners in history go, I value Admiral Spruance as a friend to Canada because we were not ready to repel a determined amphibious strike.  A lot of damage could have happened to our nice coastal cities although long term it would have been beaten off by US/Canadian troops who don't have the entire Pacific to traverse before supplying the army.  Japan was going to lose, but treatment of civilians elsewhere means I may not have had certain relatives at the end of all the fighting...

 

A slight overstatement. There was no way in hell Japan could hope to invade Canada. They bairly invaded some isolated Islands in western Alaska and started regretting doing that almost instantly.

 

 

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15 minutes ago, SeraphicRadiance said:

Belfast remains my highest winrate ship over a reasonable amount of games, 81% last I checked. The ship is absolutely disgusting in the power it has to influence games. I actually predict it becoming even more OP due to the 5.28km detection range...if any DD is close enough to spot you firing, the tools you have almost certainly means you will kill them. The thing is already a mutilator of DDs and scourge of the cap circles, getting an early warning of prey wandering close to you is not a bad thing unless you're horribly vulnerable to multiple enemy ships. 

Mz. or Mr. Radiance. I can play Belfast more often and drive that win-rate back to a reasonable level. lol. Belfast is OP in hands that are competent. I own one, a reduction in power of her would be acceptable to me. I embarrassed when take her out. like I pad? stats. lol 

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13 minutes ago, Maggie_Saito said:

Mz. or Mr. Radiance. I can play Belfast more often and drive that win-rate back to a reasonable level. lol. Belfast is OP in hands that are competent. I own one, a reduction in power of her would be acceptable to me. I embarrassed when take her out. like I pad? stats. lol 

It's all about experience, intuition, and map awareness. Belfast has the tools and potential to swing games in the team's favor. No single ship in its tier range has the ability to have a high impact from both early to late game, and is amazing at killing off DDs quickly and early if you aren't checked by another radar.

 

That's what Belfast does best, it blasts DDs who dare come challenge its zone of influence, which neuters the opposing team's offensive capabilities, while being very safe from retaliatory  fire. Anyone that pushes into it gets farmed for damage, and without torps or your own radars, you can't dislodge it. Kutuzov needs a team to provide eyes for it to kill DDs, Belfast can protect itself from everything. Learning where and when it's optimal to place yourself is how you win in Belfast.

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3 hours ago, DingBat said:

 

While I do believe the Belfast to be OP, nothing comes close to the ridiculousness of the Type 59 in its early days. WoWs has yet to see an analog. 

 

These are some serious rose-tinted glasses. There were three things that really caused all the fuss about the Type 59 when it came out. First, it routinely saw tier 5 tanks which were literally helpless to do anything to it; secondly, you would often see teams where five or six of the 15 tank team were Types and that gets old very fast; and finally, for whatever reason the Type seemed to inspire pubbies who would otherwise be brain-dead idiots to actually work together more often than not. When it came out the Type 59 was OP, but not nearly as much as people like to talk about. From the time it was released until the time I quit (~2015), the Type 59 was not ever seriously (directly) nerfed. It was changed prior to the release of the Chinese tree to bring some of its stats in line with the rest of the Chinese tanks, but the net effect was essentially zero. The only changes that really effected it were the tightening of the MM spread, the general power creep of WoT, and the introduction of premium rounds for silver. The Type is probably still a better than average tank at this point, but its overpoweredness was due in large part to its circumstances rather than the tank itself. The Belfast, on the other hand, is disgustingly OP precisely because of what it brings to the table. Excellent concealment for its tier, smoke to hide in, radar for spotting, hydro so you don't get choobed in your smoke like an idiot, HE so you can actually reliably stack DoTs instead of hoping for lucky torpedo hits. I could keep going but you get the point. The Belfast is extremely versatile and very capable of killing the high influence ships that win games. The Belfast also uptiers extremely well, so even a change to the MM such that tier sevens aren't routinely top tier would not be the end of the world. The tl;dr of all of this is that I would say the Belfast is easily more OP than the Type.

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19 minutes ago, SeraphicRadiance said:

It's all about experience, intuition, and map awareness. Belfast has the tools and potential to swing games in the team's favor. No single ship in its tier range has the ability to have a high impact from both early to late game, and is amazing at killing off DDs quickly and early if you aren't checked by another radar.

 

That's what Belfast does best, it blasts DDs who dare come challenge its zone of influence, which neuters the opposing team's offensive capabilities, while being very safe from retaliatory  fire. Anyone that pushes into it gets farmed for damage, and without torps or your own radars, you can't dislodge it. Kutuzov needs a team to provide eyes for it to kill DDs, Belfast can protect itself from everything. Learning where and when it's optimal to place yourself is how you win in Belfast.

Mz. Mr. Radiance. Apologies for making joke. Your assertion, of the Belfast prowess, is assuredly correct. I have witnessed the vessel in competent control and can be devastating.  The vessel also can be destroyed comparatively with minor effort by Battleships and cruisers. Belfast controls areas only if the team allows it and does not function as a unit (which is almost all games). If WG decides to balance the ship I am not opposed to this. ( I do not care for the ship much) Belfast has a outstanding combat record and I purchased her for that reason. I have a total of three games in her. over six month period. She is a beautiful ship though. Much prefer the Emerald because it is at a tier I am more comfortable at. 

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5 hours ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Way to go EU.  :fish_palm:

 

And there I was commending EU on not adding it to the tree and shop after initial sale as NA did. But of course a few patches back they went and did that.

 

Needless to say Belfast & Kutuzov are not gone yet in Yuropland. Hopefully soon, with Albert in tow. 

 

I do think that these ships could end up in an E-25 situation though. Sold again at high prices because of their fame as museum ships and reputation for being OP. Not the best move, but the damage was done when the ships were released in this state in the first place.

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3 hours ago, Nhi_Vanye said:

Just a warning.  WG has stated that you have exactly 6 weeks, not 2-3 months, to decide.  Patches now drop every 3 weeks, and they even stated that there is a 6 week period to evaluate.

giphy.gif

 

Your lack of sources is highly unprofessional conduct for a forumite lol

 

Seriously? Just 6 weeks tops unless something forces a delay on WG"s end? *sigh* I so prefer taking time on good stuff.

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5 minutes ago, Reymu said:

giphy.gif

 

Your lack of sources is highly unprofessional conduct for a forumite lol

 

Seriously? Just 6 weeks tops unless something forces a delay on WG"s end? *sigh* I so prefer taking time on good stuff.

Go to about 2:25 on the 0.6.12 Dasha video, and listen carefully as she states that you have 6 weeks to claim doubloon for the ships.  There are you happier now that I have pointed you to the exact source?

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Kutuzov has been on sale for a long long time and has been stupidly OP since release, why only now would they remove it?

 

Frankly I think they should nerf premiums and give people compensation.  At least that would give WG some financial incentive to actually test and balance premiums properly rather than just release ships without much thought as they seem to be doing.  Pretty obvious to anyone that has played the game a bit that smoke and radar in combination is a terrible idea and of course the Belfast is not a fun ship to play against.

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Well, this is the time when Belfast's nickname is truly appropriate. You gotta Pay Fast, while it's still available :Smile-_tongue:

 

16 minutes ago, Nhi_Vanye said:

Go to about 2:25 on the 0.6.12 Dasha video

 

Don't bother with that. Just go to 3:13 and once again watch Dasha in Halloween makeup :Smile_popcorn:

Edited by geser98

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Okay, dumb question time.... Its even a two part one, LOL. I was gifted mine when she first dropped. Could I sell her for Gold? IF I wanted to sell her, (and that is a B I G freaking IF ) would I send a message or what? 

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The ONLY reason a for profit company offers refunds is because they've done their research and knows the product is either defective or not lived up to advertisement. In this case, WG knows the changes will drastically decrease the said ships performance.

 

DON'T GOD DAMN BUY IT NOW, if you want performance. But if buying things satisfies you, then by the merit of market economy, go ahead.

 

WG should just hire LWM at this moment since he acts like a PR firm for them in the current capacity.

Edited by NeutralState

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14 minutes ago, NeutralState said:

The ONLY reason a for profit company offers refunds is because they've done their research and knows the product is either defective or not lived up to advertisement. In this case, WG knows the changes will drastically decrease the said ships performance.

 

DON'T GOD DAMN BUY IT NOW, if you want performance. But if buying things satisfies you, then by the merit of market economy, go ahead.

How would smoke changes affect these ships? Belfast has radar to counter things that get too close, and Kutuzov has torps and hydroacoustic search. Nobody should be smoking up at those ranges anyway since you could easily eat torps or get nuked by AP. These changes won't change anything about their gameplay at all.

You're just looking for an excuse to hate on mouse lol 

Edited by mfumukoskoldpadda

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