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Lert

Complete list of new smoke-firing detectibility penalties

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Lert    15,687

As you all will know by now, 6.12 sees changes to the smoke mechanics, where firing from inside a smoke screen will give you a concealment penalty depending on the ship. Here is a complete list:

South Carolina: 10.62 km
Wyoming: 10.77 km
New York: 13.99 km
Colorado: 16.19 km
North Carolina: 15.1 km
Arkansas Beta: 10.77 km
Montana: 17.38 km
Iowa: 15.64 km
New Mexico: 12.31 km
Arizona: 12.47 km
Alabama: 15.64 km
Missouri: 15.64 km
Texas: 13.99 km
Alabama ST: 15.64 km
Erie: 3.58 km
Chester: 3.66 km
Albany: 3.83 km
St. Louis: 5.04 km
Omaha: 6.87 km
Atlanta: 4.6 km
Cleveland: 6.71 km
Pensacola: 7.32 km
New Orleans: 7.05 km
Baltimore: 7.18 km
Des Moines: 8.18 km
Phoenix: 6.58 km
Marblehead: 6.87 km
Marblehead Lima: 6.87 km
Indianapolis: 8.18 km
Flint: 4.6 km
Sampson: 1.95 km
Farragut: 2.83 km
Mahan: 2.98 km
Benson: 2.75 km
Gearing: 2.83 km
Nicholas: 2.49 km
Clemson: 2.21 km
Fletcher: 2.75 km
Wickes: 2.09 km
Sims: 2.83 km
Smith: 1.93 km
Black: 2.75 km
Warspite: 13.03 km
Bellerophon: 10.47 km
Orion: 12.11 km
Iron Duke: 12.59 km
Queen Elizabeth: 13.19 km
King George V: 12.63 km
Monarch: 13.35 km
Lion: 14.76 km
Conqueror: 16.69 km
Hood: 14.89 km
Nelson: 14.76 km
Black Swan: 2.21 km
Weymouth: 4.6 km
Caledon: 4.5 km
Danae: 4.71 km
Emerald: 5.4 km
Leander: 4.6 km
Fiji: 5.4 km
Edinburgh: 5.52 km
Neptune: 6.58 km
Minotaur: 5.4 km
Belfast: 5.28 km
Campbeltown: 2.09 km
Gallant: 2.43 km
Dunkerque: 14.2 km
Bougainville: 3.34 km
Jurien: 4.17 km
Friant: 5.04 km
Duguay-Trouin: 6.78 km
Émile Bertin: 6.16 km
La Galissonnière: 6.72 km
Algérie: 8.18 km
Charles Martel: 8.03 km
Saint-Louis: 9.13 km
Henri IV: 11.54 km
De Grasse: 6.72 km
Tirpitz: 15.05 km
Nassau: 7.6 km
Kaiser: 10.92 km
König: 11.24 km
Bayern: 13.65 km
Gneisenau: 14.33 km
Bismarck: 15.05 km
Friedrich der Große: 16.77 km
Großer Kurfürst: 17.79 km
König Albert: 8.85 km
Scharnhorst: 11.68 km
Hermelin: 3.32 km
Dresden: 3.4 km
Kolberg: 3.5 km
Karlsruhe: 4.78 km
Königsberg: 5.99 km
Nürnberg: 6.13 km
Yorck: 8.33 km
Admiral Hipper: 8.49 km
Roon: 8.65 km
Hindenburg: 10.17 km
Emden: 3.4 km
Admiral Graf Spee: 9.47 km
Prinz Eugen: 9.13 km
HSF Admiral Graf Spee: 9.47 km
V-25: 2 km
G-101: 2.13 km
V-170: 2.01 km
T-22: 2.26 km
Ernst Gaede: 2.9 km
Leberecht Maass: 2.9 km
Z-23: 3.38 km
Z-46: 2.83 km
Z-52: 2.9 km
Giulio Cesare: 10.86 km
Duca d'Aosta: 5.77 km
Kawachi: 7.65 km
Myogi: 14.54 km
Fuso: 17.3 km
Kongo: 14.17 km
Ishizuchi: 11.81 km
Nagato: 16.7 km
Mikasa: 8.85 km
Amagi: 16.9 km
Yamato: 19.27 km
Izumo: 19.21 km
Mutsu: 16.51 km
Kii: 17.5 km
ARP Kongō: 14.17 km
ARP Kirishima: 14.17 km
ARP Haruna: 14.17 km
ARP Hiei: 14.17 km
Yūbari: 4.18 km
Furutaka: 6.92 km
Aoba: 6.79 km
Myoko: 7.6 km
Mogami: 6.79 km
Ibuki: 7.18 km
Kuma: 5.06 km
Tenryu: 3.36 km
Iwaki Alpha: 4.71 km
Zao: 7.18 km
Chikuma: 4.01 km
Hashidate: 2.78 km
Atago: 6.66 km
Katori: 4.83 km
ARP Myoko: 7.6 km
ARP Ashigara: 7.6 km
ARP Takao: 6.66 km
ARP Haguro: 7.6 km
Southern Dragon: 7.6 km
Eastern Dragon: 7.6 km
ARP Nachi: 7.6 km
Tachibana: 1.96 km
Umikaze: 2.03 km
Isokaze: 2.19 km
Minekaze: 2.22 km
Shimakaze: 2.83 km
Tachibana Lima: 1.96 km
Fūjin: 2.22 km
Wakatake: 2.19 km
Kamikaze: 2.22 km
Kamikaze R: 2.22 km
Mutsuki: 2.22 km
Fubuki: 2.62 km
Akatsuki: 2.75 km
Akizuki: 2.39 km
Hatsuharu: 2.49 km
Shiratsuyu: 2.49 km
Kagero: 2.55 km
Yūgumo: 2.62 km
Shinonome: 2.62 km
HSF Harekaze: 2.55 km
Imperator Nikolai I: 9.75 km
Oktyabrskaya Revolutsiya: 10.47 km
Aurora: 4.82 km
Diana: 4.93 km
Murmansk: 6.58 km
Diana Lima: 4.93 km
Orlan: 3.03 km
Novik: 3.74 km
Bogatyr: 4.21 km
Svietlana: 4.01 km
Kirov: 8.01 km
Budyonny: 6.58 km
Shchors: 6.72 km
Chapayev: 6.66 km
Dmitri Donskoi: 6.96 km
Moskva: 12.66 km
Oleg: 4.6 km
Krasny Krym: 6.62 km
Molotov: 7.12 km
Mikhail Kutuzov: 7.72 km
Admiral Makarov: 5.99 km
Gremyashchy: 2.66 km
Storozhevoi: 1.98 km
Derzki: 1.98 km
Izyaslav: 2.09 km
Udaloi: 3.33 km
Khabarovsk: 4.06 km
Podvoisky: 2.95 km
Gnevny: 2.67 km
Minsk: 2.95 km
Ognevoi: 2.95 km
Grozovoi: 2.9 km
Kiev: 3.53 km
Tashkent: 3.73 km
Okhotnik: 2.48 km
Leningrad: 2.88 km
Perth: 4.5 km
Błyskawica: 2.78 km
Anshan: 2.73 km
Loyang: 2.75 km

Source.

  • Cool 8

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MrDeaf    2,457

Derzki: 1.98km?

Isn't the auto detect 2.0km?

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Lert    15,687
1 minute ago, MrDeaf said:

Isn't the auto detect 2.0km?

Yes. But now you'll definitely spot him from 2m closer, when he's firing!

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Kapitan_Wuff    1,123

Mikhail Kutuzov: 7.72 km

 

So is that the range I will be detected while firing from my smoke? Or is the min detect range of 2km added to that number?  7.72km I can maybe handle but 9.72km... Kutuz will really be getting hit hard..

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Lert    15,687
2 minutes ago, Panzer1113 said:

Damn, 7.72 for the MK - that is going to hurt

Hardly. At least, with my playstyle, I like to stay at least 10km from my targets anyways.

Just now, Kapitan_Wuff said:

So is that the range I will be detected while firing from my smoke? Or is the min detect range of 2km added to that number?  7.72km I can maybe handle but 9.72km... Kutuz will really be getting hit hard..

99% sure it's just 7.72km.

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Panzer1113    124
Just now, Lert said:

Hardly. At least, with my playstyle, I like to stay at least 10km from my targets anyways.

99% sure it's just 7.72km.

I also try to hold at least that level, but that is a large circular radius that a red ship can slip into, breaking concealment- and you are a sitting duck - so not only radar concerns but also now pretty large gun bloom area like 5 km less cushion then in the past - will have to see how this impacts play

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MrDeaf    2,457
Just now, Panzer1113 said:

I also try to hold at least that level, but that is a large circular radius that a red ship can slip into, breaking concealment- and you are a sitting duck - so not only radar concerns but also now pretty large gun bloom area like 5 km less cushion then in the past - will have to see how this impacts play

make sure you have a DD in front of you, plain and simple.

If the DD is at least 2km away from you, it will get spotted first.

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Doomlock    2,158
9 minutes ago, Kapitan_Wuff said:

Mikhail Kutuzov: 7.72 km

 

So is that the range I will be detected while firing from my smoke? Or is the min detect range of 2km added to that number?  7.72km I can maybe handle but 9.72km... Kutuz will really be getting hit hard..

 

8 minutes ago, Lert said:

99% sure it's just 7.72km.

Smoke detection becomes your bad detection. It is not added onto the 2km assured.

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USN Battleships

 South Carolina: 10.62 km
 Wyoming: 10.77 km
 New York: 13.99 km
 Colorado: 16.19 km
 North Carolina: 15.1 km
 Arkansas Beta: 10.77 km
 Montana: 17.38 km
 Iowa: 15.64 km
 New Mexico: 12.31 km
 Arizona: 12.47 km
 Alabama: 15.64 km
 Missouri: 15.64 km
 Texas: 13.99 km
 Alabama ST: 15.64 km

 

USN Cruisers
 Erie: 3.58 km
 Chester: 3.66 km
 Albany: 3.83 km
 St. Louis: 5.04 km
 Omaha: 6.87 km
 Atlanta: 4.6 km
 Cleveland: 6.71 km
 Pensacola: 7.32 km
 New Orleans: 7.05 km
 Baltimore: 7.18 km
 Des Moines: 8.18 km
 Phoenix: 6.58 km
 Marblehead: 6.87 km
 Marblehead Lima: 6.87 km
 Indianapolis: 8.18 km
 Flint: 4.6 km

 

USN Destroyers
 Sampson: 1.95 km
 Farragut: 2.83 km
 Mahan: 2.98 km
 Benson: 2.75 km
 Gearing: 2.83 km
 Nicholas: 2.49 km
 Clemson: 2.21 km
 Fletcher: 2.75 km
 Wickes: 2.09 km
 Sims: 2.83 km
 Smith: 1.93 km
 Black: 2.75 km

 

RN Battleships
 Warspite: 13.03 km
 Bellerophon: 10.47 km
 Orion: 12.11 km
 Iron Duke: 12.59 km
 Queen Elizabeth: 13.19 km
 King George V: 12.63 km
 Monarch: 13.35 km
 Lion: 14.76 km
 Conqueror: 16.69 km
 Hood: 14.89 km
 Nelson: 14.76 km

 

RN Cruisers
 Black Swan: 2.21 km
 Weymouth: 4.6 km
 Caledon: 4.5 km
 Danae: 4.71 km
 Emerald: 5.4 km
 Leander: 4.6 km
 Fiji: 5.4 km
 Edinburgh: 5.52 km
 Neptune: 6.58 km
 Minotaur: 5.4 km
 Belfast: 5.28 km

 

RN Destroyers
 Campbeltown: 2.09 km
 Gallant: 2.43 km

 

French Battleships
 Dunkerque: 14.2 km

 

French Cruisers
 Bougainville: 3.34 km
 Jurien: 4.17 km
 Friant: 5.04 km
 Duguay-Trouin: 6.78 km
 Émile Bertin: 6.16 km
 La Galissonnière: 6.72 km
 Algérie: 8.18 km
 Charles Martel: 8.03 km
 Saint-Louis: 9.13 km
 Henri IV: 11.54 km
 De Grasse: 6.72 km

 

KM Battleships
 Tirpitz: 15.05 km
 Nassau: 7.6 km
 Kaiser: 10.92 km
 König: 11.24 km
 Bayern: 13.65 km
 Gneisenau: 14.33 km
 Bismarck: 15.05 km
 Friedrich der Große: 16.77 km
 Großer Kurfürst: 17.79 km
 König Albert: 8.85 km
 Scharnhorst: 11.68 km

 

KM Cruisers
 Hermelin: 3.32 km
 Dresden: 3.4 km
 Kolberg: 3.5 km
 Karlsruhe: 4.78 km
 Königsberg: 5.99 km
 Nürnberg: 6.13 km
 Yorck: 8.33 km
 Admiral Hipper: 8.49 km
 Roon: 8.65 km
 Hindenburg: 10.17 km
 Emden: 3.4 km
 Admiral Graf Spee: 9.47 km
 Prinz Eugen: 9.13 km
 HSF Admiral Graf Spee: 9.47 km

 

KM Destroyers
 V-25: 2 km
 G-101: 2.13 km
 V-170: 2.01 km
 T-22: 2.26 km
 Ernst Gaede: 2.9 km
 Leberecht Maass: 2.9 km
 Z-23: 3.38 km
 Z-46: 2.83 km
 Z-52: 2.9 km

 

Italian Battleships
 Giulio Cesare: 10.86 km

 

Italian Cruisers
 Duca d'Aosta: 5.77 km

 

IJN Battleships
 Kawachi: 7.65 km
 Myogi: 14.54 km
 Fuso: 17.3 km
 Kongo: 14.17 km
 Ishizuchi: 11.81 km
 Nagato: 16.7 km
 Mikasa: 8.85 km
 Amagi: 16.9 km
 Yamato: 19.27 km
 Izumo: 19.21 km
 Mutsu: 16.51 km
 Kii: 17.5 km

 

ARP Battleships
 ARP Kongō: 14.17 km
 ARP Kirishima: 14.17 km
 ARP Haruna: 14.17 km
 ARP Hiei: 14.17 km

 

IJN Cruisers
 Yūbari: 4.18 km
 Furutaka: 6.92 km
 Aoba: 6.79 km
 Myoko: 7.6 km
 Mogami: 6.79 km
 Ibuki: 7.18 km
 Kuma: 5.06 km
 Tenryu: 3.36 km
 Iwaki Alpha: 4.71 km
 Zao: 7.18 km
 Chikuma: 4.01 km
 Hashidate: 2.78 km
 Atago: 6.66 km
 Katori: 4.83 km

 

ARP/Dragon Cruisers
 ARP Myoko: 7.6 km
 ARP Ashigara: 7.6 km
 ARP Takao: 6.66 km
 ARP Haguro: 7.6 km
 Southern Dragon: 7.6 km
 Eastern Dragon: 7.6 km
 ARP Nachi: 7.6 km

 

IJN Destroyers
 Tachibana: 1.96 km
 Umikaze: 2.03 km
 Isokaze: 2.19 km
 Minekaze: 2.22 km
 Shimakaze: 2.83 km
 Tachibana Lima: 1.96 km
 Fūjin: 2.22 km
 Wakatake: 2.19 km
 Kamikaze: 2.22 km
 Kamikaze R: 2.22 km
 Mutsuki: 2.22 km
 Fubuki: 2.62 km
 Akatsuki: 2.75 km
 Akizuki: 2.39 km
 Hatsuharu: 2.49 km
 Shiratsuyu: 2.49 km
 Kagero: 2.55 km
 Yūgumo: 2.62 km
 Shinonome: 2.62 km
 HSF Harekaze: 2.55 km

 

Russian Battleships
 Imperator Nikolai I: 9.75 km
 Oktyabrskaya Revolutsiya: 10.47 km

 

Russian Cruisers
 Aurora: 4.82 km
 Diana: 4.93 km
 Murmansk: 6.58 km
 Diana Lima: 4.93 km
 Orlan: 3.03 km
 Novik: 3.74 km
 Bogatyr: 4.21 km
 Svietlana: 4.01 km
 Kirov: 8.01 km
 Budyonny: 6.58 km
 Shchors: 6.72 km
 Chapayev: 6.66 km
 Dmitri Donskoi: 6.96 km
 Moskva: 12.66 km
 Oleg: 4.6 km
 Krasny Krym: 6.62 km
 Molotov: 7.12 km
 Mikhail Kutuzov: 7.72 km
 Admiral Makarov: 5.99 km

 

Russian Destroyers
 Gremyashchy: 2.66 km
 Storozhevoi: 1.98 km
 Derzki: 1.98 km
 Izyaslav: 2.09 km
 Udaloi: 3.33 km
 Khabarovsk: 4.06 km
 Podvoisky: 2.95 km
 Gnevny: 2.67 km
 Minsk: 2.95 km
 Ognevoi: 2.95 km
 Grozovoi: 2.9 km
 Kiev: 3.53 km
 Tashkent: 3.73 km
 Okhotnik: 2.48 km
 Leningrad: 2.88 km

 

Commonwealth Cruisers
 Perth: 4.5 km

 

Polish Destroyers
 Błyskawica: 2.78 km

 

Pan-Asian Destroyers
 Anshan: 2.73 km
 Loyang: 2.75 km

 

 

Apologies for the lack of parlance on some of the nations, I am not familiar with all of them.

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so many #s.  i will probably just round all my DD #s to 3km to be safe.  Remembering all the CA and BB #s will be a pain.  Yes, you could probably check in game what it will be, but remember during the moment will be key.  I will probably forget about it a few times.  I can see this change impacting a lot of fights. 

 

still, i will have to 2nd guess if its worth smoking teammates up anymore.   I enjoy doing it, especially in US DDs.  Now?  IDK.  either it will be pointless near the caps, as they will be spotted or they wont want to go near it, and instead fire from farther behind to avoid being spotted. 

 

On another note, this feels like a nerf to USN and RN cruisers.  USN were already shafted thanks to poor map design, and using smoke to push up was one way of dealing with it.  Now?  idk if i want to get near to caps without hard cover.  2nd squishiest tier 10 cruiser will pay a price for being aggressive.  You have a 2km buffer between max radar range and the range before they spot you shooting out of smoke.     RN also get hit.  Though idk how hard. You are fragile outside of the smoke, and if you push up near a cap, you risk being spotted from a decent distance.(especially on the neptune)

 

TBH, this feels like a nerf to cruisers in general.    Yea, BBs cant really stealth fire anymore, but they aren't squishy.  The cruisers on the other hand, no so much and they tend to rely on cover(hard or soft like smoke) the most to do damage without taking damage. 

 

I guess we will see how this plays out, but i have my doubts.   This may mean ever more passive play. 

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MrDeaf    2,457
Just now, missile742 said:

Why is Neptune an outlier compared to Edinburg and Mino?  Superstructure?

neptune has very poor concealment compared to Edinburgh and Minotaur.

Neptune only goes down to 10.2km or something, while both Edinburgh and Minotaur go down to 8.9km

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BrushWolf    1,331
24 minutes ago, RedSeaBear said:

Numbers, So many numbers 

u5Rmnlr.gif

 

This, far too many different ranges. A better way would have been class based ranges.

23 minutes ago, GoldPile said:

What about firing behind smoke?

It is the same. The only way to stay completely undetected while firing from beyond auto detect range while behind an island.

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Lert    15,687
6 minutes ago, Meatshield_No13 said:

Apologies for the lack of parlance on some of the nations, I am not familiar with all of them.

Thank you for doing what I was too lazy to.

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K538    261
30 minutes ago, Lert said:

Hardly. At least, with my playstyle, I like to stay at least 10km from my targets anyways.

 

Agreed.  When I saw that they were going to allow refunds I though they'd crushed the MK and Belfast, but this really shouldn't have much impact except when people play these ships wrong or are forced to try really high risk manoeuvres.

 

Thus far this seems like one of WG's better attempts at blanket balance changes.  Even if these two ships (that I love) were crushed as a result of the move it's a good move for the game overall.

 

@Meatshield_No13 great list, perhaps somebody from WG (@Pigeon_of_War) can update the original with your organized list or a sortable table.

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BiggieD61    216
10 minutes ago, K538 said:

 

Agreed.  When I saw that they were going to allow refunds I though they'd crushed the MK and Belfast, but this really shouldn't have much impact except when people play these ships wrong or are forced to try really high risk manoeuvres.

 

Thus far this seems like one of WG's better attempts at blanket balance changes.  Even if these two ships (that I love) were crushed as a result of the move it's a good move for the game overall.

Agreed, if you see a high dpm ship smoke in front of you, you previously had zero incentive to charge in and gun it down because it would take too long to get to minimum assured detection range of 2km.  Now if you are 7km or closer to it, it's a risk reward choice to close a bit and spot it for your team and yourself.  It will be interesting to see how the best players make use of this change.

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K538    261
1 minute ago, BiggieD61 said:

Agreed, if you see a high dpm ship smoke in front of you, you previously had zero incentive to charge in and gun it down because it would take too long to get to minimum assured detection range of 2km.  Now if you are 7km or closer to it, it's a risk reward choice to close a bit and spot it for your team and yourself.  It will be interesting to see how the best players make use of this change.

 

Yeah as a committed hider in smoke and a dysfunctional charger into smoke this is an excellent balancing change.

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Seadog_Supreme    112

Not a bad move. But note that not firing, smoke will hide you. So it's more like RL, where smoke was a way to escape, not a way to fire invisibly. Perth, with a 12km range and 4.5 detection, will not be very useful. Capping in smoke is going to be more of a DD thing. Smoking battleships so they can retreat will still be useful. We're not going to see a bunch of ships trying to cram into smoke so much. What I call "area denial" by smoked-up CLs will be less effective.

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K538    261
3 minutes ago, Seadog_Supreme said:

Not a bad move. But note that not firing, smoke will hide you. So it's more like RL, where smoke was a way to escape, not a way to fire invisibly. Perth, with a 12km range and 4.5 detection, will not be very useful. Capping in smoke is going to be more of a DD thing. Smoking battleships so they can retreat will still be useful. We're not going to see a bunch of ships trying to cram into smoke so much. What I call "area denial" by smoked-up CLs will be less effective.

 

Precisely.  It's actually well implemented in this regard, anybody is upset with this change isn't looking at the big picture.  Hopefully it will start to bring back dynamic play and somewhat improve the importance of DDs and DD team play..

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vonKaiser    627

Wonder why the difference between the Edinburgh and the Belfast.  Figured if they wanted to change it they'd make the Belfast the worse one considering the radar/smoke/hydro combo and HE.  But I guess 0.28 is minimal anyway. 

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