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ValkyrWarframe

An Aid to British BB Balancing Discussions

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In lieu of the recently-announced Conqueror test nerf and repeated calls to see the HE nerfed, I figured I'd do some number-crunching on British BB HE.  Thank you to redditor Dark_Magus for plugging me to the standard forumlae WG use.

 

In addition to the guns they're fired from, I included the name of the HE shell being used so there is no confusion about which one WG put on the ship or which one I am using.  Numbers will be rounded normally to the nearest hundred for alpha, nearest percent for fire chance, and tenth of a millimeter for HE penetration - bear in mind that these formulae are estimates only, so I'd call the margin of error at + 100 damage and + 1% fire chance.  Warspite and Hood's HE data is added at the end for reference.

Shell (BC Weight)

Weapon

Ship

HE Alpha (Current) HE Alpha (Standard) Fire Chance (Current) Fire Chance (Standard) Penetration (Current) Penetration (Standard)

HE MKIIa (48.3kg)

BL 12"/45 MKX

Bellerophon

5200 4500 32% 30% 76.25mm 50.83mm

HE MKI (80.1kg)

BL 13.5"/45 MKII

Orion

5900 5200 40% 38% 85.75mm 57.17mm

HE MKIII(80.1kg)

BL 13.5"/45 MKII

Iron Duke

5900 5300 40% 38%

85.75mm

57.17mm

HE MKVIIIb (59.0kg)

BL 15"/42 MKI

Queen Elizabeth

BL 15"/45 MKIII

Monarch

6300 5400 35% 33% 95.25mm 63.50mm

HE MKVIb+ (~61.4kg)

BL 14"/45 MKVII

King George V

6100 5200 41% 34% 89.00mm 59.33mm

HE MKII^ (~131.2kg)

BL 16"/45 MKI

Nelson

BL 16"/45 MKV

Lion

6900 6200 46% 48% 101.50mm 67.67mm

HE MKI^ (~140.6kg)

BL 16.5"/45 MKII

Lion

Conqueror

7200 6300 48% 49% 104.75mm 69.83mm

HE MKII^ (~256.3kg)

BL 18"/45 MKII

Conqueror

8200 7700 63% 65% 114.25mm 76.17mm

HE MKVIIIb (59.0kg)

BL 15"/42 MKI

Warspite

BL 15"/42 MKII

Hood

5300 5300 34% 34% 63.50mm 63.50mm

*HE MKIII seems to be WG's designation for the "heavy" 13.5" HE shell.  I don't know if this was its actual designation or not, but the listed muzzle velocity of 759 m/s seems to support this, so I went with it.  The bursting charge remains the same despite the larger shell.

 

+Specific HE bursting charge figures for this gun weren't present on NavWeaps, however the shells are essentially identical to those of the BL 14"/45 MKI used on the Almirante Latorre (nee HMS Canada), whose entry does have a listed bursting charge size, and so that was used instead.  If the 22kg listed figure is indeed how much filler the HE shell had, then these would be bar-none the worst battleship HE shells in the game.

 

^Bursting charge data not available.  Approximation made based on shell weight:bursting charge weight ratio of similar-era shells (i.e. WWI-era).  It also seems that WG used a standard or even nerfed fire chance formula for these shells, as the formulae I'm using are repeatedly getting equal if not higher fire chances, while reverse-guessing bursting charge based on the listed fire chance yields HE alphas similar to or slightly lower than those calculated by the aforementioned method (i.e. nowhere near the ones WG got for alpha, which confirms they used a special formula).

 

For anyone interested, here's the formulae used.

Spoiler

HE alpha: 886.3 * (Shell Weight (kg) * Bursting Charge (kg))0.1658

 

Fire chance: 5.0447 * (Bursting Charge (kg))0.4612

Edited by ValkyrWarframe
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I’ve talked about this before: Taking away the 419s from Conq. Possibly Lion, but definitely Conq

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So the higher tier RNBB HE fire chance is nerfed, but the lower tiers are buffed. Interesting.

Is there a reason why Warspite and Queen Elizabeth have a different standard fire chance?

 

So far as I can see, I still don't see the reasoning behind 1/4 penetration on RNBB HE.

Even the Bellerophon beats 50mm with standard penetration, which is more than enough against BB deck armor encountered at all tiers.
Orion's 85mm penetration is still not enough to penetrate heavy casemate/upper belt armor of BBs at lower tiers.
The AP on RNBBs is devastating against cruisers, thanks to shorter fuse and less likely hood of overpenetrating.

And Yet, to make it easier still, Orion and Iron Duke get 85mm of HE penetration, which can lol HE cit cruisers.

I get that WG wants to add variety, but the 1/4 penetration is overkill, especially at lower tier.

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10 minutes ago, FireAndHEspam said:

I’ve talked about this before: Taking away the 419s from Conq. Possibly Lion, but definitely Conq

The 419s are only a part of the problems with that ship.  The 457s are just so bad in comparison to other T10 main batteries that Conqueror's balanced with them despite a set of attributes that would break anything else.

7 minutes ago, MrDeaf said:

So the higher tier RNBB HE fire chance is nerfed, but the lower tiers are buffed. Interesting.

Is there a reason why Warspite and Queen Elizabeth have a different standard fire chance?

 

So far as I can see, I still don't see the reasoning behind 1/4 penetration on RNBB HE.

Even the Bellerophon beats 50mm with standard penetration, which is more than enough against BB deck armor encountered at all tiers.
Orion's 85mm penetration is still not enough to penetrate heavy casemate/upper belt armor of BBs at lower tiers.
The AP on RNBBs is devastating against cruisers, thanks to shorter fuse and less likely hood of overpenetrating.

And Yet, to make it easier still, Orion and Iron Duke get 85mm of HE penetration, which can lol HE cit cruisers.

I get that WG wants to add variety, but the 1/4 penetration is overkill, especially at lower tier.

I'm not really sure why QE has a lower fire chance.  The redditors don't have the fire chance formula completely nailed-down by their own acknowledgement, but at the same time it would have to be a pretty-substantial alteration to bump it up to 34%.  Maybe WG didn't use the same source as NavWeaps did for the HE bursting charge size?  In that case, QE would probably have 34% as well.

 

From what I've heard, German HE only has 1/4th penetration because their HE shells were more like SAP than true HE.  Regardless, they have pretty crappy damage and fire chance, so giving them 1/4th penetration was the logical thing to do.  The British HE is on the complete opposite end of the spectrum in terms of performance.

Edited by ValkyrWarframe

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Very nice. Good reference point for discussion on RN HE for later.

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