Enough with the cries of "Spot for me"

[Adder007USA]

I don't know what it is, but in the last few weeks, whenever I play my destroyers and carriers, I'm constantly getting harassed by battleships hanging in the back rows, asking for spotting.

 

I get it.  Long range guns need targets to shoot.  But @#%$, if the people with the heaviest armor are too afraid to get close, they can spot their own targets.  I'm tired of getting my destroyers shot up because I'm the only target within range (I get spotted by either a red DD, or aircraft, and smoke only does so much).  I'm tired of losing my planes and people crying about lack of spotting, despite the fact that I haven't allowed a single red TB through (You're welcome).  And these are people that typically, by battle end, have the least xp earned and the fewest kills, so it's not like they're hitting much anyways.  There are plenty of reds visible once the rest of the fleet engages, and they're apparently not good enough?

[eVa_Refuel]

I need intelligence DATA!

[MzFortune2001]

58 minutes ago, Adder007USA said:

I don't know what it is, but in the last few weeks, whenever I play my destroyers and carriers, I'm constantly getting harassed by battleships hanging in the back rows, asking for spotting.

 

I get it.  Long range guns need targets to shoot.  But @#%$, if the people with the heaviest armor are too afraid to get close, they can spot their own targets.  I'm tired of getting my destroyers shot up because I'm the only target within range (I get spotted by either a red DD, or aircraft, and smoke only does so much).  I'm tired of losing my planes and people crying about lack of spotting, despite the fact that I haven't allowed a single red TB through (You're welcome).  And these are people that typically, by battle end, have the least xp earned and the fewest kills, so it's not like they're hitting much anyways.  There are plenty of reds visible once the rest of the fleet engages, and they're apparently not good enough?

I have observed this also. While I am anything but a adequate player. I do not read chat unless noting happening. I do not speak english that well but read it much better. still, takes time. After I am sunk I read the chat and find they may score higher then men but I try to help team (even though I don't most times)  I believe this has started becoming systemic in the game dynamic. I have no conclusion the reason for it. 

[2Floods1Ship]

Agreed, it's a symbiotic relationship. You keep my dd from getting hammered six ways to sunday and I keep their dd's dead and their bb's lit.

[HMCS_Devilfish]

I spot if asked only .. if I’m being covered by who’s ever asking and it’s got to be more than sitting 10+ k behind me and waiting for a Target .. I take a big risk they need to take a little one to cover me

I also spot for the team on my own ... that’s part of my DD job no risk no reward

[Sovereigndawg]

Team work is only for the red team it seems.

[Skyfaller]

1 hour ago, Adder007USA said:

I don't know what it is, but in the last few weeks, whenever I play my destroyers and carriers, I'm constantly getting harassed by battleships hanging in the back rows, asking for spotting.

 

I get it.  Long range guns need targets to shoot.  But @#%$, if the people with the heaviest armor are too afraid to get close, they can spot their own targets.  I'm tired of getting my destroyers shot up because I'm the only target within range (I get spotted by either a red DD, or aircraft, and smoke only does so much).  I'm tired of losing my planes and people crying about lack of spotting, despite the fact that I haven't allowed a single red TB through (You're welcome).  And these are people that typically, by battle end, have the least xp earned and the fewest kills, so it's not like they're hitting much anyways.  There are plenty of reds visible once the rest of the fleet engages, and they're apparently not good enough?

Here's the problem:

 

You're a DD. You have stealth. You have torpedoes. 

 

Yet...for some reason, you insist on not flanking or infiltrating behind the red team's lines to spot AND torp with significantly higher effectiveness... all because you choose to SIT in smoke (aka, NOT SPOTTING) and firing your dinky little guns at said BBs hoping for fire damage. 

 

I run a Shimakaze AND a Yamato. I can tell you that when my shima is in the field I completely avoid using guns unless im spotted and fired upon by another DD... from the very start of the battle I rush to get past the midpoint of the map and get behind or flank the entire red team. The result is my BBs ALWAYS have FULL spotting of most of the red team and can make best use of their guns...all the while i'm delivering damage and forcing their team to turn and expose their citadels...and distract their cruisers from spamming HE on our BBs to try and find me. 

 

As a Yamato I see DD's like you in every single battle... sitting in the front line in smoke firing guns and doing nothing other than capping and usually dying quickly afterwards to radar+cruiser fire or soviet gunboat DD's. Most of the times those that rush-cap at the start end up seeing that cap lost a minute later..and team loses more points by losing that DD than the cap the DD did gained in that few minutes..and the green team is left with one less DD worth of damage and spotting capability. 

 

KNOW YOUR ROLE. DO IT. 

 

Unless you're a soviet DD gunboat you should not be freaking sitting in smoke firing guns nor rushing to cap at map start. Your job is to spot and to torp. Killing ships gives significantly higher points and if you spot and flank and torp your team will gain a significant lead very early on..by killing the red team DD's and cruisers that lemming rushed+sat in smoke shooting. Its only after most cruisers and DDs are dead that you can get onto capping to secure the win. 

 

If you're a BB your job is to kill cruisers as your priority. They are the bane of DDs and they are the highest DPS units in the game (fires+HE damage spam) vs BBs. Killing BB's comes after that. 

If you're a cruiser your job is to kill DDs as priority and other cruisers when you see them. Your guns allow you to toss some HE salvos at BBs every so often to try for a fire.

 

But what we see in game is BB's ignoring cruisers to shoot other BBs... cruisers ignoring DDs to shoot HE+Fire at other BBs..and DDs not flanking nor spotting because they are lemming rushing to cap and die quickly and/or they sit in smoke in the front line firing at the freaking BB's hoping for fires. 

 

KNOW YOUR ROLE. DO IT. 

[Estimated_Prophet]

17 minutes ago, Sovereigndawg said:

Team work is only for the red team it seems.

 

lol... Sure seems like it when the Greens get curb stomped...

[Magic_Fighting_Tuna]

Ironically, I can never spot the friendly ships asking for spotters...

[_WaveRider_]

'I need intelligence data' - Take no notice!

If you are a DD then you should be probing the front line anyway, to spot, find weaknesses in the enemy line, or push an objective. The only thing you have to be worried about whilst doing this, is your own safety and playing to your strengths.

I find when people are calling for intelligence data they only need it as they are so far removed from what the rest of the team are doing anyway, that to 'accommodate' them would be to the detriment of the rest of he team.

 

'I need smoke' - then that will prompt me to look at who is asking and if I have missed a team mate in trouble (and close by), then I will look to assist. This is usually by smoke if ready or trying to divert the enemies attention by firing. Only problem with this is that I suffer a 20 second bloom penalty when trying to grab the attention of the enemy and my HP is still probably lower than the friendly BBs anyway. This is a tactic you really need to weigh up (previously I could position myself away from the enemies guns when firing and rushing his position; if timing it right, I could maybe even gain my concealment back before getting hit). Not now - getting close enough to make an enemy consider you more than an annoyance means you suffer both primary and secondary hits. Not really viable - just take a look at the general survival rates for the ship types, DDs are at the bottom in most cases. They are also at the bottom for damage in general too.

[IfYouSeeKhaos]

Funny...about 80% of the time the person asking for "intelligence data" is the 1 BB that went solo to c while the rest of the team went ab.

As for

3 hours ago, Skyfaller said:

infiltrating behind the red team's lines

(even though I agree w/this & everything else you had to say...)the results of this are, "Why are you so far forward when you should be staying back w/the team & smoking for us?"...can't win no matter what you do in a DD anymore because there's so many different people that want so many different things & if anything goes wrong it's, "The fuckin [edited] [edited]DDs players fault".

I mean...have you tried playing a DD & not going straight into a cap even though the enemy has 4 radar ships & your team has zero...(wth...sorry I just got a little bit distracted...this line is an edit addition & I just re-read the original line only to realize that "$hitty a$$" got edited & fuckin was allowed to go through...huh...anyways)...results...instant, "report our DD".

& oddly enough that flanking maneuver is best suited to the ruskie DDs you give permission to sit in smoke & fire...as their detection is only bested by the other DDs they have the least chance of capping & the best chance of flanking while all the other DDs are running for the caps...but instead of going around & flanking once the other DDs have something spotted they smoke & fire giving away their positions & making the option to stealth flank after their smoke runs out less viable.

[BlailBlerg]

i feel like the i need intel data quick command should be removed. It only encourages demanding selfish play from poor players. The good palyers can articulate that without a quick comand.

[AdmiralThunder]

1 hour ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

 "The fuckin [edited] [edited] <<<insert ship type here>>> players fault".

I think what you have described applies to any ship type and not just DD. People in one ship type are always blaming people in other ship types. Even the forums are the same. Seems when a person likes a particular ship type they always seem to blame other players with a preferred ship type for all their woes in a match or the game in general.

[GreyFox78659]

According to WTR BBS are my most played class as a BB player I can tell you BBs are 90% of the problem. Complaining about DDs are sitting in smoke is funny as the only reason one pops smoke anymore is because they are being or about to be pummeled. Also radar has largely mitigated smoke to near useless.

[Gandariel]

I agree with know your role. It's team work. You can have 100k dmg and lost the game or 50k dmg and win, 

Spoting is a HUGE part of gameplay for DD and CV. /WG give you, even more, xp for spoting/. I don't know why you pick DD with averse of spot.

[desmo_2]

A battleship can forge ahead to the front lines, tank damage, and scout for himself.  But, he will be torpedoed to death by a destroyer(s) he could never see.  Or, he will be spotted by the destroyer he could never see and the entire red team will then light him up.  Spotting the enemy by having 6 of them start shooting at you is not ideal.

A destroyer can get much closer to the enemy without being detected and spot the much higher detection battleships and cruisers.  The destroyer doesn't have to YOLO straight into the red spawn to do this.  Spotting the enemy is probably the biggest thing a destroyer can do to contribute to a win.  Obviously he/she will also want to cap and do damage for XP, but DD's that spot properly give their team the best chance for victory.

Same goes for carriers.  Spotting so your team mates can plan their positioning and have something to shoot at sooner is crucial!

I say this as a DD player, cruiser player, and BB player, in that order.  As a DD player, I also get frustrated with other DD players who will spend 10 minutes of the game trying to skirt the map edge in the hope they may ambush a carrier some day...or the DD who tries to contest a cap solo and refuses to abort the attempt when he is confronted with two other DD's and a cruiser or two.  If you are outnumbered, bail out!  Survive deeper into the game so you can contribute to the team's chances of a win.  Dying for a cap you have no chance of taking anyway is foolish.

[LancerUlysses]

Spotting provides a good lot of xp and credits earned because of damage your team does to what you have spotted.

[Skyfaller]

6 hours ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

Funny...about 80% of the time the person asking for "intelligence data" is the 1 BB that went solo to c while the rest of the team went ab.

As for

(even though I agree w/this & everything else you had to say...)the results of this are, "Why are you so far forward when you should be staying back w/the team & smoking for us?"...can't win no matter what you do in a DD anymore because there's so many different people that want so many different things & if anything goes wrong it's, "The fuckin [edited] [edited]DDs players fault".

I mean...have you tried playing a DD & not going straight into a cap even though the enemy has 4 radar ships & your team has zero...(wth...sorry I just got a little bit distracted...this line is an edit addition & I just re-read the original line only to realize that "$hitty a$$" got edited & fuckin was allowed to go through...huh...anyways)...results...instant, "report our DD".

& oddly enough that flanking maneuver is best suited to the ruskie DDs you give permission to sit in smoke & fire...as their detection is only bested by the other DDs they have the least chance of capping & the best chance of flanking while all the other DDs are running for the caps...but instead of going around & flanking once the other DDs have something spotted they smoke & fire giving away their positions & making the option to stealth flank after their smoke runs out less viable.

 

While soviet DDs do have the speed advantage that allows them to better flank and cap, its that very same lack of concealment and their very short range torpedoes that makes them the worst choice to infiltrate behind the lines. Simply put, a soviet DD uses guns..and once you go behind their lines the chances of cover tend to be low plus firing guns make you visible and thus taken out by cruisers. What I meant by soviet DDs being the only ones OK to sit in smoke or fire guns is in context of them being with the fleet in the front lines... their soviet bias HE and fire chances lets them act like a mini-atlanta and their speed, high HP and armor is best suited to do close support for the team rather than being far away from team spotting and torping. 

 

As for radar...well, I think any DD stupid enough to run into a cap when there are radar ships deserves to be shot to pieces. I never run to any cap at game start..I'm always engine boost+rushing to flank/infiltrate behind the red team. Stealth does nothing for capping really... because the moment any other DD runs into your cap all that's left is to see who leaves the cap first... by sailing out or sinking. I prefer to let them cap, sink a couple of their ships trying to cap and gain more points for team then cap when the area is clear rather than head-on brawl inside a cap point where everyone's guns are trained on you. 

[IfYouSeeKhaos]

22 hours ago, Skyfaller said:

their very short range torpedoes

I was thinkin along the lines of (the recently nerfed) Khab (was used to running into those quite often in my Gearing when they had long enough range torps to actually be effective as torping DDs...forget I'm still stalled on the Minsk myself(absolutely the longest grind in the whole Game...100k XP on 2 different lines to become elite...w/4km torps...f___ you very much WG...see your point more clearly now.

[Roadrider7021]

On 10/16/2017 at 0:23 AM, Maggie_Saito said:

I have observed this also. While I am anything but a adequate player. I do not read chat unless noting happening. I do not speak english that well but read it much better. still, takes time. After I am sunk I read the chat and find they may score higher then men but I try to help team (even though I don't most times)  I believe this has started becoming systemic in the game dynamic. I have no conclusion the reason for it. 

Keep going, keep at it, you're doing fine in all respects. If you are a DD player spotting is but 1 job among many; there are many aspects to sound play. And never let a whiny player who has plenty of time to chat between salvos influence your play by artificially helping him OR hurting him.

[MzFortune2001]

1 hour ago, Roadrider7021 said:

Keep going, keep at it, you're doing fine in all respects. If you are a DD player spotting is but 1 job among many; there are many aspects to sound play. And never let a whiny player who has plenty of time to chat between salvos influence your play by artificially helping him OR hurting him.

Thank you Mr. Roadrider, For very sound advice. I try to review what I fail at and attempt to secure improved results at next oppertunity. I attempt to not let rude or isulting comments bother me, works sometimes. 

[sasquatch_research]

Hey

Another whining [edited] session about who's to blame and it's a DD guy that sounds like refusing to spot for anyone else.  A BB has no business going into a cap early on in the game because he gets deleted from focus fire and has very little in the way of concealment or or dealing with focus fire thank to slow reloads.  But a DD although weak in HP does have concealment, smoke and torps to ward off attackers; and hopefully cruisers will fight off other cruisers and DD's that are approaching that cap, the BB is designed to attack other BB's and cruisers, not DD's by their very nature and hopefully attacking the enemy cruiser contesting the caps but he does that using his range.  It's a team effort but there is far too much selfish game play these days and too much [edited] about who is doing what and from where.  People need to learn their roles.  As for those BB guys, keep mind that most do not want to sit and do nothing but 30 sec. reloads, sometimes slow speed, poor handling don't warrant going into islands, caps, etc. but do warrant supporting those that do.  Nothing worse for a BB to go into a cap only to be left high and dry (focused fire by the enemy) because your local cruiser decided to bail (weak armor himself) or the DD just smoked himself up and nobody else or he used his concealment to escape know the BB would take the punishment and not even bother to throw out some defensive torps.  I have complained many times in game when I see BB's or anyone that fails to work the objective or sitting back camping in the back, cruisers and DD's hiding behind islands which some BB is getting his butt kicked.  Too many times people are just plain selfish and don't fight as a team which is what all of the finger pointing comes from; that's why I prefer division play and no matter who is running what, we have each others backs and can communicate to each other what is going on.  Maybe people need a history lesson on what the role of each class of ship and learn to play it that way.  Sorry DD, but BB's and laters Carriers were always a nation's highest investment and most valuable asset.  Cooperation people will overcome selfish play every time and make the game fun; being selfish, will keep it like it is or make it worse.

 

Pete

[DPJoseyWales0331]

I'm just frustrated with the torpedo boat Cruisers who torp through you when your nibbling away at space, trying to screen and spot. If I had a nickle for how many times I've been shot in the back, trying to turn smoke and run from a gunboat in my little Shima, I would have a big jar of nickles. That, and  reading the " you should have been watching for those" people. Other than that, I have no problem being out in front... though I wouldn't mind some back up too.

I

[diddlyv]

First let me plead guilty for asking CVs to spot caps at the beginning phase of the game.  I do this when I am in a DD generally always a DD that gets out stealthed by a Japanese DD.

When I drive a basically no AA BB I do tell the CV driver straight away if he wants me to survive I need Fighter Cover, Then after I get sunk by the 3rd Air Attack without figher support I do always thank the CV driver for the Air Cover

When driving DDs there are all kinds of experts telling me what to do with my DD I have one pretty standard reply, If you want a DD to go somewhere Drive one or stfu!!!

 

Contesting caps gets me sunk 95% of the time, a DD on the bottom of the ocean does no one any good.  On the occasions I do get through I generally do pretty well screwing up enemy BBs and CVs with stealth torps or running and gunning with Ruskie DDs.  Do not understand why we can no longer stealth fire but it is ok to salvo 30 torps and never get seen.  How many DD rounds equal the damage of one torp???

When I drive a carrier I try to always get planes over all caps initially either fighers or DBs to do initial spotting and try like hell to keep enemy DBs and Torp planes off the fleet.

 

[Danyir_Amore]

You need to watch videos that the streamers post.  In ranked battles CV's will actually use DB's only as scouts after they drop bombs because once they do they are actually faster than fighters, and spotting is way more important than the damage one squadron of those will do.  They will also always focus DD's given the chance because DD's have far more influence on the outcome than other ships other than CV's.  How is this when DD's do the least damage of all classes and can't tank any themselves?  Scouting, it is all Scouting, know where the reds are before they know where you are is the most consistent way to win in this game.

you also need to realize why BB's will hang back until you have scouted, a BB cannot change course quickly and doing so is often dangerous as it exposes their broadside.  A good BB player has to think about five minutes ahead, they cannot risk moving until they know where the enemy is because once they commit that is basically it.  If you are getting destroyed early in a DD that is basically your fault, you need to scout aggressively but once contact is made you need to pull back failure to do so is what gets DD's killed the most.

Also there is a time and place for DD's to smoke up and add their not inconsiderable firepower, they can be very effective when they choose the right time and place to do so.  It's just rare when they actually do choose the right time and place.