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silvercreeper

Are the USN BBs THAT bad?

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So, I'm sure you've heard that the Americans lack in battleships, as I have too. As I am actively looking for a BB line to commit to, the Americans have crossed my sight many times, but all the smack talk on them has changed my mind. Can any experienced American BB players tell me their experience in the line?

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Overall the line is great, and under-rated. In dedicated hands its easy to go 60%+ with it, even though most of the ships seem to show under 50%. 

South Carolina is kinda meh. Slow, but I think it got a range or accuracy buff recently.  Its quite inaccurate, but if you don't miss, you do delete things. 
Wyoming is a powerhouse at its tier. Slightly inaccurate, but lots of firepower. 

New York is kinda eh.

New Mexico is a super shotgun. Get to close-mid range and watch things die. 

Colorado gives you a little extra protection and accuracy. Not bad, just slow, and armor isn't quite all there. 

North Carolina is the ultimate thinking person's boat.  Super conceal, Super AA, able to fire 6/9 guns out the front, super maneuverable.  Highly recommend. 

Iowa, played correctly, this thing destroys. Accurate, fast. Only vulnerable on broadside. 

Montana is supposedly super.  Great AP, very high accuracy. 

 

The Arizona is 55% and quite powerful. Easily destroys cruisers and other BBs. 

Alabama is supposedly quite fun too, very turny. 

Missouri is nuts with radar.

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I have experience with SC and Wyoming, and I absolutely hate the SC. It just makes you hate everything about battleships. The Wyoming feels like a breath of fresh air, but it is still really slow.

However, be warned that I am only grinding the BBs to get the the carriers, and US BBs just aren't my cup of tea (I like Cruisers and the KMS brawler BB's). I haven't played anything else and shouldn't try to tell you about them, but I will tell the the NC is rumored to be like THE AA battleship.

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I would rate the lines this way: 

KM BBs (just cuz these are easier and its fun to brawl)

USN BBs

RN BBs (...)

IJN BBs (these are good for accurate players, but are difficult)

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USN BBs are quite fun if you position correctly since that is their strong point. Since they are so slow until T8, knowing where to be and when is key.

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USN BBs just lack tools that other nations get.  They ONLY have main guns, their secondaries are a joke, they dont get torps, or radar or any toys that other guys get.  Thier armor is ok, but that doesnt get them that far. 

High tier USN BBs get wrecked when RNG deems it, or when you go outside the very narrow 'angle' within the bow on envelope.  Hell, even bow on, depending on RNG, you still get wrecked. 

It'd be great if the USN got a historical accuracy buff, getting more accuracy, like allowing them to mount the Iowa's accuracy mod at all tiers, like 5%, 7.5% and 11%, based on tier, and also got an improved DCP...would make them really nice. 

Overall, the Arizona, shes a pure gun boat, very accuracy overall and quite punchy for 14 inch guns, if you aim well.  She takes hits like a champ in her tier, is sorely out classed beyond her tier.  Great T6, terrible T7 lol. 

Alabama, a very fickle RNG gun boat.  Does ok when RNG deems it, will give you a middle finger when RNG is mad at you and it cant tank very well, it takes ALOT of [edited] damage.

New Mex, shes a little worse Arizona, with better AA, though the AA on mine didnt do squat lol....

NC, shes similar to a fatter Alabama, but with a citadel out on the edge of the hull, you get to randomly say good bye to 30,000 health when you show just enough broadside. 

 

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10 minutes ago, BlailBlerg said:

I would rate the lines this way: 

KM BBs (just cuz these are easier and its fun to brawl)

USN BBs

RN BBs (...)

IJN BBs (these are good for accurate players, but are difficult)

Yeah, I really want to like the Kongo but it doesn't treat me well, guns are inaccurate IMO. The Bayern has been a pain for me too, honestly. It doesn't hit the necessary shots.

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I think that, in general (with the exception of the Colorado), the US BBs just get better and better as you move up the line. I've kept all of them, except CO.

They are slow. Until you get to Iowa (the fastest), they are just slow. Accept it and plan accordingly. Don't chase. Cover the caps, move toward the enemy. 

They are brawlers (in general). As mentioned, the New Mexico is a beast. You can delete cruisers at close range. I've gotten multiple citadels in one volley in her. 

The Iowa (and Missouri) is very interesting. Totally different play style. Many (most) like to bow camp. But she's so fast, I play her much more aggressively... and do decently. I got a Kraken today in the Missouri. 

The US Premium Battleships are really good. The Texas just kills enemy aircraft. 

That being said, I really like the German battleships as well. They are good brawlers and from T7 up, their secondary batteries are just brutal. You know those "500 flag" missions. You can almost complete that in one battle with a Bismark. I don't like the T9 German BB as much as the Bis. But the T6 and 7 German BBs are excellent. 

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There's nothing inherently wrong with the USN BB's, other than speed through tier 7. They were slow, there's no getting around that. The premium ships are quite good, as well. AZ, AL, and MO are 3 of the best ships in the game, in my opinion.

 

Many people think a lack of speed is all it takes to make a ship "bad", and they are very, very mistaken.

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24 minutes ago, AtlanticRim said:

I have experience with SC and Wyoming, and I absolutely hate the SC. It just makes you hate everything about battleships. T

 

Apparently you have never Captained the Kawachi.  :etc_red_button:

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Here is my road to Tier 10 in Random. I started out in the USN BB line first so I just kept at it

 

South Carolina  56%  25 Games (Grind to Wyoming-gone)

Wyoming           42% 111 Games (Grind to NY-gone)

New York          49% 122 Games (Very ordinary-gone after Texas arrived)

Texas                55% 466 Games (Premium moneymaker and an absolutely fun ship)

New Mexico      47% 274 Games (An absolute blast to play-accurate and tanky, if slow)

Arizona              52% 304 Games (Premium moneymaker-requires attention to positioning and angling more than NM but still a lot of fun)

Colorado            37% 159 Games (Grind to NC only-before they buffed the guns for accuracy-hated it and it was gone after NC)

North Carolina   41% 94 Games (Grind to Iowa-a fun ship-feast or famine depending on play style, map and spawn position-I kept mine)

Iowa                   44% 55 Games (Grinding to Montana-need another 45,000 ship XP and its' done-a fun ship requiring attention to positioning and angling-fast as the wind-I will keep her)

 

I cannot speak for Montana and Alabama. Alabama came out just as I got to North Carolina and I regrettably passed on it for want of resources. USN BBs are no better or worse than the other lines. They have their quirks that you must learn but are eminently playable. i don't pay much attention to the overall ship stat standings, I just play for fun.

 

Edited by GrandAdmiral_2016

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The 5"/38 needs its rate of fire buffed and its ranged increased/standardized. Currently it fires slower than the Japanese 5"/40 which had an inferior rate of fire IRL.

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Ok so no, the US Battleships are not bad at all. 

 

I play all lines in all nations so I have a bit of comparative experience with the various contenders out there.  Essentially what many players out there don't like about the American line (at least until you get to North Carolina) is that they are Slowwwwwww.  The South Carolina starts out with a speed of 18 knots once you upgrade her engines and the Wyoming with her upgrades hits around 21 knots ... and that is pretty much the top speed of all the ships that follow her until you get into the NC. 

 

So, how does the American line stack up against everyone else.  Well the Japanese have longer ranged guns, the Germans have better armor, the British ships are fire spitting flame throwers and at lower tiers have fantastic range for their guns.  The Germans also tend to beat the US in short range AA fire, though it doesn't generally have the range.  The Wyoming and New York/Texas pretty much lose most of their secondaries when you upgrade their AA and that doesn't compare well to anyone else in that regard. 

 

What makes the US Battleships stack up against their adversaries isn't that they are overpowering in any one thing, what makes them effective is that they can do pretty much everything pretty well.  They aren't super fast but, usually, the difference is a couple of knots and that generally suffices.  They don't have the best armor, but they have better guns than the ships that do, they don't always have the best short range AA but their longer range AA is hard to beat from tier's three through seven.  The New Mexico and Colorado have AMAZINGLY effective anti torpedo armor which can cancel up to 40% of a torpedoes damage.  They have pretty accurate guns and stack up well on hitting power with the other ships in their tier.  

 

Essentially, they are just solid competent capable vessels that leave the extremes to other vessels and just concentrate on being good all around warships. 

Edited by BB3_Oregon_Steel
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Uh, no. They are some of the best right now, with Montana leading at tier 10. Right now you are listening to people who don't understand how to cope with some of their disadvantages. Then again, you might be one of those too. Might as well play them and find out. 

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1 minute ago, Pulicat said:

Uh, no. They are some of the best right now, with Montana leading at tier 10. Right now you are listening to people who don't understand how to cope with some of their disadvantages. Then again, you might be one of those too. Might as well play them and find out. 

Last I saw Conqueror was still doing at least 10k more average damage, burning the whole world to the ground.

 

Don't be *that* guy who suggests the Montana is overpowered.

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Just now, Lampshade_M1A2 said:

Last I saw Conqueror was still doing at least 10k more average damage, burning the whole world to the ground.

 

Don't be *that* guy who suggests the Montana is overpowered.

I didn't use the word overpowered did I? 

 

Rn BB are a fresh line with skewed stat results. Most new lines always have this happen. 

 

As someone who's played both, Montana is the better off. Thanks for wasting my time with your insinuation. 

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Realistically all of the battle ships in all of the lines are OK you just have to play them to their advantages. That can be challenging in and of itself. I say get them all and let RNGesus sort them out.

Edited by Sovereigndawg
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The USN BB's are not bad ships.  Sure the South Carolina is a turd, but you'll grind that very quickly.  I liked playing the line.  Probably the low point is the Colorado.  And the reason it is such a pain is because of the enormous jump from the CO to the NC.  It's like going from tier 5 to tier 8.  USN BB's are probably best known for great AA.

 

In aviation, the Cessna 182 is considered by most to be the best all-around small private aircraft.  Not because the 182 is first in any category, but 2nd in just about all of them.  That is the USN BB line.

 

 

Edited by Capt_Binkley
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27 minutes ago, Pulicat said:

Uh, no. They are some of the best right now, with Montana leading at tier 10. Right now you are listening to people who don't understand how to cope with some of their disadvantages. Then again, you might be one of those too. Might as well play them and find out. 

No, I am a person who likes to plan things out, like a line I'm going to commit to.

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- South Carolina is pretty bad, it just is.

- Wyoming is fun, remember to use it's 3000 ft/s shells to punish arrogant destroyers.

- New York suffers very badly when up-tiered. Does bad in stats too.

- Texas is New York with great AA. Good when there are carriers around. Otherwise pretty meh.

- New Mexico is great until you realize how horrendously inaccurate it is. It's a shame really because when the stars align and RNG blesses you with good hits she can be great. For some reason WG really gave Fuso an excellent rate of fire and better accuracy to pour salt on the wound.

- Arizona I don't own but wish I did. I've heard she's like a New Mexico that can reliably hit stuff.

- Colorado hits hard and is rather accurate but her slow speed really punishes you at her tier. Pray you don't spawn on the side of the map. Also despite having 13.5" of belt armor she easily takes damage. Lowest health for her tier too. WG also won't give her 5"/38s on her final hull for some reason.

- North Carolina is great once you get used to the lower velocity AP shells, but you'll always regret showing your broadside (naval tactics 101 don't apply to this game).

- Alabama is very fun to play but I really wish they didn't worsen her dispersion and sigma values compared to North Carolina. That sucks.

- Iowa is great now that they corrected the oversized citadel that would get you instantly deleted if you had to turn. Sure wish I had that when I was grinding through to Montana.

- Missouri is Iowa with radar for people who play a whole lot more than me or throw their wallets at WG to convert large sums of XP.

- Montana I haven't played as much as I'd like although if the permanent camo ever goes on sale I intend to play her a lot more. I just wish her 5"/54s would get a range increase. On paper she is no longer as impressive as she once was now that two other (mostly fictional) T10 BBs can get 12x 16.5" guns but she still plays well.

 

Unfortunately British BBs (from the King George V onward) have taken the place of US ones as concealment kings. I imagine the slower BBs suffer more from British BB HE spam too.

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1 hour ago, BlailBlerg said:

I would rate the lines this way: 

KM BBs (just cuz these are easier and its fun to brawl)

USN BBs

RN BBs (...)

IJN BBs (these are good for accurate players, but are difficult)

Your account doesn't show much experience with any of these.

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Overall, the USN BB line is good.  It however undergoes some big changes.


For the Tech Tree USN BBS:

Major Note:  Other ship lines, other BB lines can slot Aiming Systems Mod 1 in Slot 2 to improve Main Battery dispersion by 7%.  USN BB Line does not have access to that upgrade.  Only for Tier IX-X do they access for Slot 3 Artillery Plotting Room Mod 2 that improves dispersion by 11%, which is a very important factor for main battery performance for those USN BBs.  It is a night / day change.  WoWS Wiki - Upgrade System.

"Standard" USN BBs Tier III-VII

+ Relatively tough ships to citadel, provided you angle and not show flat broadsides.

+ Tend to pack a good number of guns.

+ Excellent rudder shift

+ New Mexico with an AA build is decent for Tier VI, Colorado at Tier VII has very good AA for self defense.

+ Colorado at Tier VII packs strong 16" guns.  Ships same tier or lower cannot bow tank 16" AP, they will get penetrated.

- Respectable firepower but you'll find range is a recurring problem.

- Wyoming at Tier IV packs a lot of guns for the tier but is wildly inaccurate.  Get closer or be frustrated.

- SLOW.  21kts is a common characteristic.  This is often the single greatest complaint about Tier III-VII USN BBs.  By Tier VI, it gets very old, real fast.

- Secondary Battery sucks, the worst of all BB lines.  This is true for every tier.

 

USN Fast Battleships Tier VIII-X

Tier VIII North Carolina

+ You sport powerful 16"/45 guns that chew Cruisers and Battleships up.

+ Powerful AA suite.

+ Max 27kts!

+ Can bow tank any BB shells except Tier X Yamato's mighty 460mm shells.

+ With stealth build, can get down to 11.8km detection range.

- 16"/45 shells tend to float a bit and take some getting used to compared to the lower trajectories of Tier VI-VII USN BBs.

- While NC can bow tank with aplomb, her sides are frighteningly paper thin.  You will eat penetrations to the sides and citadels easily if not careful with the angles people can shoot at you with.

- You lose the maneuverability of the prior tier USN BBs but NC still maneuvers better than later tier USN BBs.

 

Tier IX Iowa

+  Did you like the power, reliability of NC"s 16"/45 guns?  Well, now you got better 16"/50 guns!  Slot Artillery Plotting Room Mod 2 and these guns are very accurate at range.  16"/50 guns are among the best in the game, surpassed only by Yamato's 460mm guns at Tier X.

+ Fast!  Max 33kts!  Be careful though, do not sail yourself into danger that is hard to extract yourself from.

+ Can bow tank the same way NC could.  An angled Iowa is a very annoying target to bring down.  Just be wary of Yamato 460mm guns, as she doesn't care about your bow tanking ability.

+ Powerful AA suite.

+ Very respectable stealth build detection range, about 12km or so.

- Like NC at Tier VIII, is poorly protected on the sides.

- Unlike NC, you have a very long hull.  This means if someone has a great side view of your ship, they literally cannot miss.  This is very bad as it opens you up to citadels.

- While very fast, Iowa has a terrible ability to respond with a turn.  Dangerous when under fire on the sides, even worse if you suddenly see torpedoes to your sides.  Iowa is too big, too unwieldy in a turn to save itself from torpedoes.  When I play a DD, Iowa and Missouri are the BBs that I land the most devastating, multi-torpedo hit attacks on.  As a torpedo DD, seeing a side profile of an Iowa / Missouri is seeing nothing but $$$BIGMONEY$$$$ flashing across my screen

 

Tier X Montana

Think of Montana as a super-beefed up North Carolina.

16"/50 guns of Iowa x12 instead of x9.

27kts max speed but as with other Tier X BBs, very slow on turns.

Unlike NC & Iowa / Missouri, has armor to the sides.

Maintains excellent AA capability.

Can bow tank anything but Yamato 460mm AP.  Be careful, she can and will citadel you bow on.

 

USN BBs and the Shift in High Tier Meta

The "Meta" of High Tier play, Tier VIII-X matches, are 3 things:  DDs, Torps, and Excellent Long Ranged Gunfire.  USN BBs transition to the High Tier Meta well, especially APRM2 fitted Tier IX-X USN BBs.  Talk to enough German BB players, check the German BB boards, and you'll find a common complaint:  The Secondaries focused builds they mauled prior tiers with have become very hard to pull off at Tier VIII-X matches.  Nobody gives a f--k about your 11.3km-11.6km Mega Secondaries when most of the time in these matches, people are shooting at 14km, 15km, even out to 18km... with accuracy!  USN BBs tend to focus on AA and Main Battery performance at these tiers, so ships like Iowa, Montana suit the meta far better than the Germans.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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USN BBs require constant planning ahead, reading of the map, and predicting not just enemy movement but your allies movement. Understanding and mastering these skills is extremely important. This also makes you a better player, it has made me a better player.

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