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DeliciousFart

King George V, Monarch, Lion citadel height is currently wrong and too low

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17 minutes ago, KnightFandragon said:

Lose the autopen feature of the guns, lower her citadel. 

35mm bows and decks for ALL tiers. 

 

They're not going to remove the lolpen on the Yamato's guns when they literally designed the entire overmatch mechanic by working backwards after starting with Yamato lolpen capability as the goal.

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23 hours ago, Doomlock said:

Nerfing KGVs reload would do way more harm than good. She already can't overmatch any battleship in her tier spread except T5 BBs, and the shell damage/pen of the AP shells are already below her peers. 

 

Still don't know how her guns having that fire chance and HE damage is any worse than IFHE Shchors putting out three salvos and more damage per KGVs one salvo. Plus, with IFHE, KGV is penned everywhere. And like I said, Overmatched everywhere with no ability to do any in return.

I agree.  IMO nothing about her guns needs to be touched. 

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so you want to raise the citadel and lower the fire chances? dam thats harsh for bbs with squishy armor, and low hit points. why in the world would anyone want to play them??? 

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On 10/15/2017 at 5:11 PM, mofton said:

That's very inconsistent on the weather deck, the German's get their 45-50mm armored decks at T7, the QE and Iron Duke have 38/44mm deck armor areas yet KGV's historic deck gets bashed in, likely due to a mistake in down-tiering her.

Monarch you're preaching to the choir on, identical turning circle, speed, clone hull. An early war appearance KGV weighs exactly the same for exactly the same HP as a 'post war refit of design 15C'.... yeah I'll buy that for a dollar...

 

I think if we're going to be consistent on citadel height we should be consistent on deck, and I don't think that Monarch is good enough as-is to warrant a raising citadel buff. KGV is strong. Lion is strong. Nelson's doing very well.

They should uptier KGV to 8 pretty much as-is but with >32mm weather deck if historic and reduced concealment, put Nelson/Rodney back in and delete Monarch.

KGV doesn't need that much of a buff, even if it is for historical accuracy.  Raising the citadel as prescribed by the OP wouldn't be enough to justify reverting it to the historical 32mm when they basically address completely-separate realms of incoming damage.  If you were to nerf her reload to 30s or at least 28, on top of fixing the citadel, then giving her a survivability buff to keep her total damage output up would be something I could get behind.

7 hours ago, Middcore said:

Maybe you're not but that's what I see snowballing as the thread goes on. Actually it's an open question whether that version of KGV (raised citadel, nerfed HE, nerfed reload) is even competitive at T6.

With the citadel raised all the way to where it was during ST, she would a slightly-OP T5 with that set of stats.  Nerf the sigma from 1.8 to 1.6 and you could stick here there.

 

The citadel raising that OP suggested, on the other hand, is pretty minor.  It's very rare that the engine spaces cause citadels while angled; rather, the magazine areas are the cause.  Compare how much easier it is to citadel the Des Moines from the front, or even in general, compared to Baltimore - the former has the entire volume enveloped by the armor belt and main armored deck as her citadel, while the latter has properly-modeled machinery spaces as her citadel.

Edited by ValkyrWarframe

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Just now, ValkyrWarframe said:

KGV doesn't need that much of a buff, even if it is for historical accuracy.  Raising the citadel as prescribed by the OP wouldn't be enough to justify reverting it to the historical 32mm when they basically address completely-separate realms of incoming damage.  If you were to nerf her reload to 30s or at least 28, on top of fixing the citadel, then giving her a survivability buff to keep her total damage output up would be something I could get behind.

Not sure, KGV has serious shortcomings. Her bad rear turret angles do require showing a lot of broadside to fire, so having a higher citadel is more of a downside than it would be to some ships which can remain at a better angle.

My experience is that staying at range and HE spamming like a cruiser/going into stealth between shots works, but if you advance you're too vulnerable to absorb much fire which is kind of the point of battleships, although it's effective I don't think the fade-between-shots tactics are necessarily 'good'.

With a 32-38mm amidships section, some ability to bounce 15-16in and some HE spam mitigation I'd take her in closer and take the risk on the citadel a little more.

 

My ideal scenario right now is simply to uptier KGV to T8, give her the standard T8 32mm, concealment module, nerf the concealment slightly, improve HP, nerf the guns to 30s reload with a 1.9 sigma per North Carolina keeping the other stats and bash Nelson back into the line. Unlikely but possible.

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I obtained a scan of the 1938 Lion's armor profile, and unsurprisingly, she should also have portions of her citadel raised; more specifically, the boiler rooms should peak above the waterline, and the engine rooms should be a bit higher than they are now. It's the same arrangement as on the KGV, which is not surprising because the Lion largely duplicated the KGV's machinery arrangement. Interestingly, the Lion's #2 turret magazines seem to be a bit taller than the others and about the same height as the engine rooms.

Lion citadel 2.jpg

Edited by DeliciousFart

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On ‎10‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 9:47 PM, DeliciousFart said:

I obtained a scan of the 1938 Lion's armor profile, and unsurprisingly, she should also have portions of her citadel raised; more specifically, the boiler rooms should peak above the waterline, and the engine rooms should be a bit higher than they are now. It's the same arrangement as on the KGV, which is not surprising because the Lion largely duplicated the KGV's machinery arrangement. Interestingly, the Lion's #2 turret magazines seem to be a bit taller than the others and about the same height as the engine rooms.

Lion citadel 2.jpg

Don't have one handy for the Nurnberg by chance do you.  Baffles me why in game she doesn't have the turtleback that the rest of the German fleet have.

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54 minutes ago, Aeries1 said:

Don't have one handy for the Nurnberg by chance do you.  Baffles me why in game she doesn't have the turtleback that the rest of the German fleet have.

@dseehafer might be able to provide cross sections for Nurenberg.

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On ‎15‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 10:33 PM, Sirus_Patton said:

Considering WG lowered the Iowa's citadel to match the historical position

Iowas old cit was accurate, the reason it was lowered was that people didn't like getting oneshot for being broadside not historical reasons.

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Just now, Akeno017 said:

Iowas old cit was accurate, the reason it was lowered was that people didn't like getting oneshot for being broadside not historical reasons.

Wait how old is this thread, err my bad.

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1 hour ago, Akeno017 said:

Iowas old cit was accurate, the reason it was lowered was that people didn't like getting oneshot for being broadside not historical reasons.

No, the old Iowa citadel was not accurate. It included an entire deck above the machinery and magazine spaces.

 

Edited by DeliciousFart

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I don't agree with the raised citadel. The High tier RN BB's already take sufficient damage from everything AP or HE. They also burn like no other after you used a repair party, and literally it may only take 1 torpedo to cause a flooding that will end up killing your ship because you had to stop 2-3 fires from raging your deck. 

I'd be fine with RNBB's getting a higher citadel, if they all played like the Warspite.  I really thought the RNBB line was going to be like the Warspite, boy was I wrong. I also hate the short fuse AP, I really do. 

So unless the changes taken place, there is no reason to actually change them now, because at that point they would just be blown out of the water. 

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