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Sabot_100

Cannon on St Lous

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When I load into game, I typically get a basic ship model rendered at first with the details (camo, boats, planes, deck fittings) added over time. As I was watching a St Louis be finished before my eyes, I noted 2 cannon between stack 3 and 4 that are typically hidden by the boats. These look like Civil War era field guns (large spoked wheels) and seem like strange things to have on a "modern" warship, even as signal guns. Even stranger details to add just for "fun". Did they actually exist?

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They're "landing guns" for the ships marines. Warships used to carry marines not only for their own protection, boarding other ships, ect... but also for landing a force on shore and conducting raids, capturing things on shore, ect...

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Yep, I see them too.  They look more like Gatling guns which were used by the US up to 1911 (the St. Louis was from 1906).  Note the two ammo cases on each side - seems an illogical place to mount cases on a cannon.

Edited by surratus
add info

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1 hour ago, surratus said:

Yep, I see them too.  They look more like Gatling guns which were used by the US up to 1911 (the St. Louis was from 1906).  Note the two ammo cases on each side - seems an illogical place to mount cases on a cannon.

Could be, except the gattling guns of the era gravity fed from the top with long clips, and the ammo boxes sit higher than the gun. The gun also looks a little too big on the carriage 

us_navy_sailor_from_1900s_with_Lee_rifle

uss-new-york-heavy-marching-order.jpg

Edited by SgtBeltfed
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1 hour ago, SgtBeltfed said:

Could be, except the gattling guns of the era gravity fed from the top with long clips, and the ammo boxes sit higher than the gun. The gun also looks a little too big on the carriage 

 

I do think you have it, Sir.  Those look like a direct match. 

Also, OP - you've a good eye.  The St. Louis is one of favorites and as often as I've admired that vessel I've never noticed that detail.

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21 minutes ago, surratus said:

Also, OP - you've a good eye

That and a slow connection. Strange for WG to put out the effort into modelling the guns only to cover them with boats. They obviously weren't in a firing position and you don't want big wheels on a moving ship. I agree they very well may be the guns pictured, so Marine weapons.

Interesting (by the photo caption) that is considered heavy marching order for the marines. Looks like they still carried a sword! Think they carry just a bit more gear these days.

Which U.S.S. New York was that do you think that is.

Edited by Sabot_100

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Finally found the guns on the model in port. Have to change the typical viewing angle.

 

stlouisguns.JPG

Edited by Sabot_100

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5 hours ago, Sabot_100 said:

That and a slow connection. Strange for WG to put out the effort into modelling the guns only to cover them with boats. They obviously weren't in a firing position and you don't want big wheels on a moving ship. I agree they very well may be the guns pictured, so Marine weapons.

Interesting (by the photo caption) that is considered heavy marching order for the marines. Looks like they still carried a sword! Think they carry just a bit more gear these days.

Which U.S.S. New York was that do you think that is.

Probably ACR-2, would be the right era.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_New_York_(ACR-2)

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As a follow-up, those cannon are still there on the "Igor" (Halloween version of the St Louis).

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1 hour ago, vonKaiser said:

Could they have been kept around as well for Star Shell use? 

Don't think they even had starshells back then. Also, you wouldn't need or want big wheeled cannon on a moving ship. They roll too easy. My original thought was some sort of saluting gun but I think it has been firmly established that these were for shore party (Marines) use. Give them some extra punch if they have to go into a hostile territory. Really amazing that WG picked up on that little detail when they made the model. Especially a detail that was was going to largely hidden in the completed model.

On the other hand, I noticed they left off the boats on the October Revolution (can't spell the Russian name). There are racks and cranes for the boats but no boats.

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The Marines, at the turn of the century, was almost abolished from serving on ships. 

The serviceman I believe with the flat top hat, is a Navy personnel. 

 

Considering you had overseas conflicts like the  Spanish-American, Philippine-American and Boxer Rebellion. The Navy played a big role in protecting "interests"  on and off shore. 

 

Think I saw another cruiser with a field gun/machine gun in the German line. 

 

 

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On 10/26/2017 at 3:40 PM, Sabot_100 said:

Don't think they even had starshells back then. Also, you wouldn't need or want big wheeled cannon on a moving ship. They roll too easy. My original thought was some sort of saluting gun but I think it has been firmly established that these were for shore party (Marines) use. Give them some extra punch if they have to go into a hostile territory. Really amazing that WG picked up on that little detail when they made the model. Especially a detail that was was going to largely hidden in the completed model.

On the other hand, I noticed they left off the boats on the October Revolution (can't spell the Russian name). There are racks and cranes for the boats but no boats.

 

Many warships would offload most of the ships boats in wartime as the boats would have been in the way, would be an additional fire hazard, and would likely be destroyed in action anyway. In wartime they would be replaced with other flotation devices, like the little square ones that you see all over the German ships.in game. Also, in October Revolution's case, they were probably completely missing by the time she was in the in game configuration, as she was more of a floating battery than a battleship. 

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On 11/3/2017 at 3:50 PM, SgtBeltfed said:

Many warships would offload most of the ships boats in wartime as the boats would have been in the way

True. And yet WG let the boats on the Dunkerque block the forward fire of the secondaries and restrict the arcs on the primaries for certain other BBs.

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A landing artillery piece is also visible on deck of one of the low tier German cruisers, but I've forgotten which one. Cruisers were typically the law enforcement in an area, particularly in colonies of European empires. They had to be able to put down local areas of unrest on their own, and that's why they had a detachment of marines and cannon on board. If you're interested about onboard marine in action, I would look up U.S. action during the Santa Cruz Incident, the surrender of Guam to the U.S.S. Charleston, actions in China during The Boxer Rebellion, and the adventures of the crew of the SMS Emden.

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