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Aduial

T7 CV balance.......

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if someone wants to get me a Kaga... i can bring those stats down. :Smile_trollface:

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6 minutes ago, smf117 said:

Is none existent? It is easily the worst tier to grind through.

Hiryu is doing fine in t7, in capable hands it is more than a match for Kaga, and can overwhelm Saipan with sheer numbers. Ranger, equally, is a better CV than the WR stats suggest.

Tier 8 is miserable for the average Lexington player, however.

but it is true, all three of the premium CVs are OP for the average player. (I don't count GZ because too few play it, even fewer have attained the 100 battle mark).

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1 minute ago, nuttybiscuit said:

Hiryu is doing fine in t7, in capable hands it is more than a match for Kaga, and can overwhelm Saipan with sheer numbers. Ranger, equally, is a better CV than the WR stats suggest.

Tier 8 is miserable for the average Lexington player, however.

but it is true, all three of the premium CVs are OP for the average player.

I agree that both Ranger and Hiryu can be good in capable hands against an average player in Kaga or Saipan but lets be honest...the gap between average player and good player in the CV population is massive. I am an average player in my CVs, I don't claim to be anything better. I run only USN AS builds and Enterprise. This holds me back by default because AS builds are the hardest to grind regarding XP and damage. IJN takes the cake there. I just enjoy jumping into battles with strong American fighters and putting down or holding back IJN CV captains. Their frustration with me and my AS build is satisfying. I may not beat them but I can hold them back and give my team a chance to do their thing. I go into battle knowing my job isn't to deal damage, it is to prevent it and scout.

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Hiryu and Ranger can't touch a Saipan not driven by a brand new potato, and the only people who ever argue otherwise are Saipan drivers trying to ward off accusations of seal clubbing - and funnily enough, both Hiryu and Ranger are suggested as being able to beat them depending on the day you ask, but curiously nobody ever sees it happen.

 

That ship is more broken than Gremy or Nikolai have ever been, yet which ones are banned from the store, and which one is on sale this weekend? Should never have been added to the game.

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17 minutes ago, NTRabbit said:

Hiryu and Ranger can't touch a Saipan not driven by a brand new potato, and the only people who ever argue otherwise are Saipan drivers trying to ward off accusations of seal clubbing - and funnily enough, both Hiryu and Ranger are suggested as being able to beat them depending on the day you ask, but curiously nobody ever sees it happen.

 

That ship is more broken than Gremy or Nikolai have ever been, yet which ones are banned from the store, and which one is on sale this weekend? Should never have been added to the game.

I own both Saipan, Hiryu and Kaga (and have battled my way up the USN line to Essex via Ranger). Yes I can beat a Saipan with Hiryu if playing versus an average CV captain like me (no idea if I can or cannot with Ranger these days). How many battles does the average Ranger captain have? How many points have they spent in their Captain skills? How often do Ranger captains bother to invest in appropriate modules and flags? The fact that many ranger players have captains with fewer than 5 pts, missing modules, no flags, no camo - all these things add up, additionally remember that those grinding the tech tree will not have researched all the upgrades, (let aloen bought them), and finally ask, how many battles has the average ranger player had in their CV?

Contrast and compare to a Saipan or Kaga, fully upgraded, all necessary modules, hundreds of battles, camo, flags, captains with 15+ pts.. This is what the raw WR statistics do not show. (Which is a pity).

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1 hour ago, abyssofthetriffid said:

Paying hard cash for a cv is not cheap alas it should be more capable than any free tree cv in the right hands.

No it shouldn't. That's pay 2 win, and that sort of garbage is what kills games. Premium ships should be fun and different, not outright superior.

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2 hours ago, nuttybiscuit said:

I own both Saipan, Hiryu and Kaga (and have battled my way up the USN line to Essex via Ranger). Yes I can beat a Saipan with Hiryu if playing versus an average CV captain like me (no idea if I can or cannot with Ranger these days). How many battles does the average Ranger captain have? How many points have they spent in their Captain skills? How often do Ranger captains bother to invest in appropriate modules and flags? The fact that many ranger players have captains with fewer than 5 pts, missing modules, no flags, no camo - all these things add up, additionally remember that those grinding the tech tree will not have researched all the upgrades, (let aloen bought them), and finally ask, how many battles has the average ranger player had in their CV?

Contrast and compare to a Saipan or Kaga, fully upgraded, all necessary modules, hundreds of battles, camo, flags, captains with 15+ pts.. This is what the raw WR statistics do not show. (Which is a pity).

 

My Ranger and Hiryu have 14 point captains, and all the flags and camo you can stick on them, and it doesn't make the tiniest bit of difference - Saipan planes are so damn fast that they can strafe an entire Hiryu wing to bits with no chance to save your planes, and even if you get your fighters onto theirs, if they don't just shred them in combat they simply strafe out, and use the superior speed to swing around again, finish the off, and then easily catch and destroy the bombers. Ranger fighters can beat Saipan fighters, but it's a hollow victory: you either engage and defeat the fighters, leaving the torpedo planes - which are so fast you can't catch them, you have to position in front of them and hope they keep coming - to wreck your team, or you take out the torpedo planes, but sacrifice your fighters to the Saipan ones in the process, and you run out of fighters faster, leaving your dive bombers to be easy pickings.

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4 minutes ago, NTRabbit said:

 

My Ranger and Hiryu have 14 point captains, and all the flags and camo you can stick on them, and it doesn't make the tiniest bit of difference - Saipan planes are so damn fast that they can strafe an entire Hiryu win to bits with no chance to save your planes, and even if you get your figters onto theirs, they simply strafe out of combat, and use the superior speed to swing around again. Ranger fighters can beat Saipan fighters, but it's a hollow victory: you either engage and defeat the fighters, leaving the torpedo planes - which are so fast you can't catch them, you have to position in front of them and hope they keep coming - to wreck your team, or you take out the torpedo planes, but sacrifice your fighters to the Saipan ones in the process, and you run out of fighters faster, leaving your dive bombers to be easy pickings.

Roughly speaking, without prying too much (^eyebrows at max elevation) what is your avg dmg with Ranger, Hiryu and if you have it, Saipan? (not interested in WR, just dmg, which gives a fairer assessment for anything under a 100 battles)

(edit : looking up my own now to think of it!

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I don't have a Saipan.

 

Average damage in Hiryu is 43k and Ranger is 19k exclusively using the AS squadron setup. I've essentially stopped playing them, because coming up against Saipans made the gameplay so overwhelmingly crap that I couldn't be bothered anymore. I only bring them out on double/triple weekends, in the hope that I might be able to grind out of the tier 7 shithole some time in the next 5 years.

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9 minutes ago, NTRabbit said:

I don't have a Saipan.

 

Average damage in Hiryu is 43k and Ranger is 19k. I've essentially stopped playing them, because coming up against Saipans made the gameplay so overwhelmingly crap that I couldn't be bothered anymore. I only bring them out on double/triple weekends, in the hope that I might be able to grind out of the tier 7 shithole some time in the next 5 years.

I'll make a confession, I just realized on looking up my stats that I free xp'd Ranger..:Smile_hiding:

but with Hiryu I have managed 49k avg dmg, similar to you. I suspect, neither of us have managed more than a few dozen matches with that CV :Smile_sceptic:

So I need to buy Ranger and test her out, we both need to press on and and test both Ranger and Hiryu for at least 100 battles to form a fair opinion.

But to my mind, this only confirms much of what I said earlier

3 hours ago, nuttybiscuit said:

I own both Saipan, Hiryu and Kaga (and have battled my way up the USN line to Essex via Ranger). Yes I can beat a Saipan with Hiryu if playing versus an average CV captain like me (no idea if I can or cannot with Ranger these days). How many battles does the average Ranger captain have? How many points have they spent in their Captain skills? How often do Ranger captains bother to invest in appropriate modules and flags? The fact that many ranger players have captains with fewer than 5 pts, missing modules, no flags, no camo - all these things add up, additionally remember that those grinding the tech tree will not have researched all the upgrades, (let aloen bought them), and finally ask, how many battles has the average ranger player had in their CV?

Contrast and compare to a Saipan or Kaga, fully upgraded, all necessary modules, hundreds of battles, camo, flags, captains with 15+ pts.. This is what the raw WR statistics do not show. (Which is a pity).

So time to grit my teeth, buy Ranger and play. (And carry on with Hiryu).

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1 hour ago, RipNuN2 said:

Cv comes down to the captain more than the cv itself.

Sometimes this is and is not the case. However Ranger is such an abysmal ship you can't really argue with how bad it is.

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I've been getting better with the strafing for Ranger's fighters which have a good amount of ammo but yeah it feels crummy. I tend to take Ranger out more when there's a Double of Triple XP Event.

 

My main complaint is that the 2 dive bombers can barely accomplish anything. They shouldn't have such a huge RNG drop ellipse. Maybe a touch bigger than IJN but come on WG, make US dive bombers fun. I'm lucky if I get one kill by forcing out repair and setting fires again.

 

I am just a few battles away from having the XP to research the Lossington. I can't wait to grind that thing /sarc

 

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10 hours ago, nuttybiscuit said:

Hiryu is doing fine in t7, in capable hands it is more than a match for Kaga, and can overwhelm Saipan with sheer numbers.

As someone who considers himself a fairly decent Hiryu player, I don't really agree with the part about Saipan. The Kaga can be dealt with by first gaining rapid air control then disrupting the strike, but assuming equal skill, the Saipan is impossible to deal with. First of all, it has the ability to strafe out of a fighter engagement without losing any planes. This makes it impossible for you to gain any sort of long-term air superiority. Second, Saipan has the fastest planes at the tier. Even if you manage to avoid having your bombers being intercepted by his fighters, he'll be there in no time - while one mistake from you can let his bombers sneak in an attack. 

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I think the crux of the issue lies in the average planes shot down. Saipan is a serious outlier, and if they switch the strafe escape penalty to be 33% of fighter ammunition instead of loss of a plane, I think they could include the Saipan, and that would help bring it in line.  Then again with the Kaga, its average fighters downed are very comparable to the Hiryu, despite having worse fighters. But it gets the same TBs, only more of them.  I think if you adjusted the reserves to make Kagas have to be more careful about losing fighters, you would see their damage numbers drop as well.

Having said that, I am still a major fan of the Hiryu, I don't think there's a ship more capable to deal with anything it could face among the tier 7 CVs.

Kaga can do well when top tier, pretty good when in tier 8, but having t6 dive bombers in a t9 game makes it difficult to soften up AA.

Saipan can control the skies pretty well, but with 2 TB squadrons stacking damage is difficult.

And Ranger is the Ranger, so...

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On 15/10/2017 at 2:33 PM, cometguy said:

Kaga can do well when top tier, pretty good when in tier 8, but having t6 dive bombers in a t9 game makes it difficult to soften up AA.

But the thing is, the Hiryu has the same handicap, with a much smaller number of torpedo bombers. Even against T8 AA, it suffers quite a lot, because most ships will focus your torpedo bombers and it's not hard to shoot down most of them when you only have 8 T6 bombers. 

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9 hours ago, Aduial said:

But the thing is, the Hiryu has the same handicap, with a much smaller number of torpedo bombers. Even against T8 AA, it suffers quite a lot, because most ships will focus your torpedo bombers and it's not hard to shoot down most of them when you only have 8 T6 bombers. 

Sure, but you can get in better with your T7 dive bombers to knock out more AA guns, so they have fewer guns to shoot with. NC and Alabama will be tough, but there's not really a great T8 AA cruiser. You've got 15% more health and 10 more knots to work with on the dive bombers.

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On ‎10‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 1:43 AM, smf117 said:

I agree that both Ranger and Hiryu can be good in capable hands against an average player in Kaga or Saipan but lets be honest...the gap between average player and good player in the CV population is massive. I am an average player in my CVs, I don't claim to be anything better. I run only USN AS builds and Enterprise. This holds me back by default because AS builds are the hardest to grind regarding XP and damage. IJN takes the cake there. I just enjoy jumping into battles with strong American fighters and putting down or holding back IJN CV captains. Their frustration with me and my AS build is satisfying. I may not beat them but I can hold them back and give my team a chance to do their thing. I go into battle knowing my job isn't to deal damage, it is to prevent it and scout.

And everyone hates you cause you're the cancer that kills decent CV gameplay..
At the same time I can't be mad because it's not like WG gives you any other options since a strike loadout gets laughed at, even by IJN strike loadouts

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13 minutes ago, Sullen_Maximus said:

And everyone hates you cause you're the cancer that kills decent CV gameplay..
At the same time I can't be mad because it's not like WG gives you any other options since a strike loadout gets laughed at, even by IJN strike loadouts

Pretty sure OP Saipan and Kaga with serious imbalance among standard tier VII CVs is the cancer but whatever you say Bro. 

 

Also: I'm pretty sure the numerous friendly ships I've saved from getting nuked by Red CVs would disagree with you about my AS build being cancer. 

Edited by smf117

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