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AMajor

Speaking of the Nicholas

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Just started getting decent in the Clemson (my first Kraken!) so am now playing the Nich.  Not what I thought as an up-tier (gun arcs turing inferior to Clemson).  Researched how to play her (Peacekeeper didn't help - he doesn't like this boat).  For some strange reason, Co-Op is not helping with this ship because the Bots are coming in stupid so I'm getting hits and kills that I shouldn't.  As soon as  I play Random, I'm overmatched.  Any suggestions?  It's not that I care about this paper ship, but, I have to build up enough experience to get to the dds in the USN line that I do care about.  The next in line is a ship that my grandfather served on.....so, it's a bit personal for me.

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Well, I would recommend keeping the A hull, though that's just a personal suggestion. The A hull has guns with MUCH better arcs, so I always kept that when I was grinding the Nich.

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T5 is in an awkward position as the MM is less favorable than the one you get at T4.

As for Nicholas, I recommend getting the B-Hull asap for the upgraded guns, and then you can contest caps much better than Clemson could ever hope to do.

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I can't comment on A hull play. But with the B hull, I play it with patience. You have to hold fire a lot and light up targets for your team. Even when another destroyer is spotted, you want to get the range down to where your reload rate will overwhelm the other ship and you can hit them effectively even with the low velocity shells.

Smoke up your teammates with long lasting smoke and then be their eyes. Load up defensive fire on your AA as the only T5 ship that can do so. If you have concealment expert, you can even stealth torp. When a ship is generally closing on you they will cover some of the distance to your torps and you can hit them without them ever coming within 5.8 km of you.

 

If you get a broadside cruiser <7 km from you you can citadel them to death with your AP. (You're firing Atlanta shells, essentially.) 

 

Nicholas is my favorite ship and I have > 1000 battles in her. Hit me up if you want to division and I'll show you some of the ways I play it.

Examples:

https://imgur.com/a/szkjc
(23 plane shootdowns)

https://imgur.com/a/Pa7Nb

(13 citadels)

 

 

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I didn't like Nicholas on my first play through but on my new RU account I played through it again and was finished after only 13 games with some great results along the way.

 

12121212121.thumb.JPG.09294b640a514e0f06e5d84d9ef3c4b0.JPG

 

I'd say, get B hull ASAP. Not sure about flatter arcs of A hull, can't remember them being any good compared to Clemson's. Still you better get used to rainbows before Farragut, because with Farra you won't have any other options. Extra HP that comes with B hull is very important for a brawler like Nicholas. 

 

I found myself using AP a lot. Just as with a comment above, get in a position where you get a lot of broadside cruisers or BBs, such as central cap of Strait, smoke up and make them all very sorry. You can even citadel Furutakas and Kirovs, which are two heaviest armored cruisers of your tier, everything else is just paper.

With battleships also, fire chance on Nicholas is meh and reload is long so if you have a broadside to shoot at, try setting one fire and then shoot AP at upper belt armor.

 

Use islands to ambush and torp rush BBs. 

 

Get the more or less standard: PM -> LS -> DE -> CE

After the first 10 points go with either AR for a 12-point build or SE if you have 13 points.

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BoraHorzaGobuchul, I'd love to division with you, but I don't know how to do that.  Also, how do I send an email directly to an individual and not the whole thread?

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geser98, could you expand on your discussion of the Captain's skills?  Right now, I'm running PT-LS-Super- CE on my Nick.  I need to know when I'm targeted (PT) and those extra consumables come in handy with super.  Help me understand why PM and DE are better (it's not that much to reshuffle Captain's skills) 

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PM helps you when you're making an ambush. They may not kill you if they get a shot off on you(or hit by randome secondary shells) but they can disable your torpedo launchers. When you're close in that can buy them enough time to deal with you.

DE just helps you output more damage. You'll do a lot of gun work in USN DD for the next couple tiers. It's still nice to have in the high tiers when you're doing a little more spotting and torpedo work. I normally take BFT and SE over demo expert. If you're going to keep the captain at tier 5 sure. Throw DE on their. 

If it's going to be a high tier captain you might be better off with AR and BFT along with SE. Your DPS is going to be so high it won't be that hard to get fires. with all the radar, hydro, double fighters, cv that can spot you you're not going to want to use your guns nearly as much as you would in tier 5 so it probably won't have as much value. 

That being said if you really like DE, run it. There are suggestions and then there is your own personal style. DE will work fine if you really want to use it. 

 

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37 minutes ago, AMajor said:

geser98, could you expand on your discussion of the Captain's skills?  Right now, I'm running PT-LS-Super- CE on my Nick.  I need to know when I'm targeted (PT) and those extra consumables come in handy with super.  Help me understand why PM and DE are better (it's not that much to reshuffle Captain's skills) 

 

Well, the way I play DDs and generally the way you often have to play them at high tiers is that whenever I'm spotted I automatically assume that anyone in range is targeting me, which is more often true than not. And as such I don't need PT. On the other hand, PM prevents your modules from being broken, which will help in a brawl.

Priority target is pretty much a must-have skill on cruisers, but on DDs (except Soviets) it's of limited use. It's best to not get spotted at all.

As for Superintendent, I really did make a mistake there :cap_haloween: It's supposed to be: PM -> LS -> SI -> CE 

Ideally you'd want to have both DE and SE as well as a 16-point build. SE is great for objective play. Much easier to fight other DDs and contest caps. DE is best for just pumping your own raw damage.

 

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a 16 point build???  There is such a thing?  How many battles do you have to fight to get that many points?  I have two 11's and one needs to stay with his cruiser.  The other is in the Nick.

 

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36 minutes ago, AMajor said:

a 16 point build???  There is such a thing?  How many battles do you have to fight to get that many points?  I have two 11's and one needs to stay with his cruiser.  The other is in the Nick.

 

 

Well, you have a maximum of 19 points, which takes a bit of time to get. I have only one 19-point captain so far.

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8 hours ago, AMajor said:

a 16 point build???  There is such a thing?  How many battles do you have to fight to get that many points?  I have two 11's and one needs to stay with his cruiser.  The other is in the Nick.

 

The first one is the hardest. After that you'll probably have 2 or 3 other captains around 15-17 points. It does take a while but flags and camo help a lot. Premium if you want to throw money at it. It also depends how much xp per battle you can pump out. The grind for me was pretty fast to the Benson but I enjoyed the USN line a lot and am OK with it. Other lines I'm not so in love with so grinding those is taking significantly longer. If you like it and our ok with it probably not too long before you get a decently leveled captain.

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12 hours ago, AMajor said:

BoraHorzaGobuchul, I'd love to division with you, but I don't know how to do that.  Also, how do I send an email directly to an individual and not the whole thread?

 

There are a few ways to set up a division. In the lower left there is a red squarish dialogue box with 3 periods in it. If you click on that it brings up your contacts. You can search for players and add them to your contacts and / or invite them to a division. I have you on my contacts now but I haven't seen you online when I've been online to invite to a division.

To directly message someone on the forums, click on their username and it will take you to their profile. One of the options to the right is to message them.

For captain skills, I always go PM first (as geser98 described perfectly) followed by Last Stand. I break on the third skill and go BFT because it helps with main gun fire rate (which will indirectly help with starting more fires) and AA. Then CE.

After that for a USN destroyer it depends on if I'm going AA build or not. On non-AA builds, I just start adding 3 pt skills. Superintendent, Demolition Expert, Survivability Expert, or Torpedo Armament Expertise depending on the ship and how useful its torps or guns are.

On the Nicholas and Fletcher I like going AA build. For that, I pick up Advanced Firing Training and Manual Fire Control for AA. The last point is mostly wasted but I usually go PT.

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On ‎10‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 11:26 PM, Vekta408 said:

I normally take BFT and SE over demo expert.

I usually go with DE over SE, I try NOT to get into a position where I need the extra HP. I would literally take almost anything from the level 3 skills menu, TAE or SI or BFT or DE or Vigilance, over SE.

On ‎10‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 11:26 PM, Vekta408 said:

If it's going to be a high tier captain you might be better off with AR and BFT along with SE.

At level 2 I usually go with Expert Marksman and Last Stand (if you've ever been in a DD that lost steering or propulsion you'd know why.)

Now, having said all that, there is NOTHING wrong with the build @Vekta408 advocated; every player in WoW probably runs something a bit different. What IS important is to try what you think will work for your playstyle, give it a go, and either stick with what ya got or change it all up. There is no right or wrong, only what works for you.

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For a ship like the Nicholas, and also the Farragut, I get captain skills in the order of:

 

Priority Target > Last Stand > Basic Firing Training > Concealment Expert > Adrenaline Rush > Superintendent > Survivability Expert > Preventative Maintenance. At tiers 5 and 6 I find that the number of ships that target a DD vary greatly and therefore knowing how many are targeting me is very important when deciding how to proceed when spotted.

 

Generally there isn't that much that you can do wrong with captain builds for USN DDs. T1 pick PT or PM, T2 pick LS (second time around pick AR, or go with four T3 skills), T3 pick one of SE, BFT, SI, DE (TAE at high tiers), T4 pick CE. Beyond 10 points look at whatever skills listed above and pick which ones will fit your play style. If you want to do an AA build that is a little different, but I would only do that if I'm divisioning with CVs, otherwise the utility tends to get wasted often.

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On 10/16/2017 at 5:20 PM, Neltak said:

If you want to do an AA build that is a little different, but I would only do that if I'm divisioning with CVs, otherwise the utility tends to get wasted often.

YMMV...  i do very well with my nicholas AA build. 

 

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1 hour ago, poeticmotion said:

Clemson is bae. Farragut is bae. Nicholas is...meh. Grit your teeth and suffer through her. 

Clemson is clemson. 

Nicholas plays well for me.  I play Sims, mahan and benson like i play nicholas and they also seem work for me. 

 

I play farragut this same way and i just f'n STINK with that boat.  I can't figure it out why.  I should, on paper, play mahan way worse.  

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Nicholas has some interesting strong points.

She has the most hit points of any line DD at tier 5; only Gremyashchy and Okhotnik having more, so she can take a few shots without just folding up; she has a brawlers build.

She has the best torp launchers in her class, again with the possible exception of Okhotnik; and while Okhotnik's are centerlined and can indeed fire a torpedo wall, her torps are very short ranged (4.5 K), where Nicholas gets two per side with 5.5 K range, a small but significant difference.

Nicholas shares the best ROF with T-22, and while T-22 enjoys superior AP (2200 damage to 2100 for the USN) Nicholas has better HE, which most DD's fire exclusively.

Nicholas gets a decent torpedo reload of 66 seconds, which falls to one minute with TAE; not Okhotnik's 47 second or Minikaze's 42 second reload, but usable in light of her gun capacity.

Nicholas has decent detection, which with skills and camo can be brought down to just under 6 K.

This is a good boat which, with just a couple of minor buffs, could be a great boat, and definitely worth playing.

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On 10/25/2017 at 11:36 PM, AMajor said:

It took some time, but the Nick is becoming clearer to me.  See the attached file.  Repeat after me..the Nicholas is a gunboat brawler with a nasty torp tail.

Am I playing it right?

20171025_225919_PASD014-Leader-1919_17_NA_fault_line.wowsreplay

 

Interesting. Some things I do differently, which may or may not be better:

It looked like you shot AP exclusively? I would have been shooting HE for most of those targets, AP just against the Omaha when it was showing side (which it rarely was.) HE against the superstructure of those battleships might have started fires and I think would have done at least as much damage.

Early engagement with the Omaha: you and the Emile coordinated well and gunned it down effectively. I would have been much more cowardly in that situation, as an Omaha can take away too many of my hit points too early. You lost few and did much better than I would have here because of the aggression, I think.

After that it looked like you were contemplating going south after the CV? But you decided to go into the B objective, exactly as I would have done. With the first closing battleship I would have tried to stay undetected and dropped torpedoes for him to (maybe) run into.

After that you had an opportunity to fire on a battleship at the north side of B or go after their last destroyer, the Mutsuki, north of B. Here is where I most strongly disagree - the enemy DD has to be the most important target here. You are the most effective counter to it. You can get closest without being detected and can gun it down with HE in a minute or so. It can do significant damage to your ships if unchallenged.

 

Was speed boost particularly useful that game? I saw a couple of times where defensive fire would have been useful for ships near you.

 

I'll turn on replays and play a game so you can critique mine. :)

Edited by BoraHorzaGobuchul

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11 minutes ago, AnimaL21 said:

I definitely want to Nicholas div with you some day Bora.  

 

Put you on my contacts list along with AMajor, will keep looking :)

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