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JackBinary

Hey, anything we can know about potential T9-10s on the akizuki line?

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As it currently stands, this is the only line in the game that does not reach Tier 10, any word on whether or not this will be remedied any time soon?

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no idea, i hope it does fairly soon, but i guess we wont know till a very short period of time before its release if it ever does get released...

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in another thread, @AraAragami described one way I'd love to see this go.

 

Kitakaze class @ T9

Kitakaze + 127 Kai @ T10

 

4x2, 1x6, Shimakaze propulsion, Akizuki health pool...

Yes please.

 

Another option would be bump akizuki up to T9, give her 25mm plating & DFAA, replace her with the asashio at T8 with ROF improved 127cm guns (essentially a gun focused kagerou), Kitakaze @ T10 with 25mm plating and DFAA.

Edited by JackBinary

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All I know is that the Devs want to, and are planning of finishing the line. Most likely Super Akizuki will be a part of the line.

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When I first presented the idea, the names I offered were Yamazuki and Shimokaze, both names that were going to be used for the Super Akizuki and Super Akizuki Kai classes that were never built.

 

Shimokaze in particular because I want very much to repeat the Akizuki/Akatsuki confusion.

Edited by AraAragami
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Great Scott!!!  Two more tiers that would be stronger than Akizuki!  Khab, step aside, mate, you will be de-throned! 

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49 minutes ago, desmo_2 said:

Khab, step aside, mate, you will be de-throned! 

never going to happen; look at Conquerer and Yamato and the 460 MM guns

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Kitakaze, basically, a faster Akizuki would be fitting at T9.
T10? there's nothing except complete speculation.

 

My speculation?
4x 127mm/54 Mark 42 Single that does 34 - 40RPM per gun (66.2t per turret) on a Mitscher or Forrest Sherman type hull.
or, a hull featuring 3x of these guns. I doubt people will want a Forrest Sherman, because that ship is relatively slow for what WoWs features.

Comparison:
Porter: 4x 127mm/38 Mk22 Twin (34.1t per turret)
Gearing: 3x 127mm/38 Mk38 Mod0 Twin (43.4t per turret)
Akizuki: 4x 100mm/65 Type98 Twin (34.5t per turret)

DPM comparison
4x 127mm/54 Mark42 Single

  • HE 1800 dmg * 40RPM * 4guns / 3 = 96,000 dpm
  • AP 2400 dmg * 40RPM * 4guns / 3 = 128,000 dpm

3x 127mm/38 Mk38 Mod0 Twin

  • HE 1800 dmg * 20RPM * 6guns / 3 = 72,000 dpm
  • AP 2100 dmg * 20RPM * 6guns / 3 = 84,000 dpm

4x 100mm/65 Type98 Twin

  • HE 1200 dmg * 20RPM * 8guns / 3 = 64,000 dpm
  • AP 1700 dmg * 20RPM * 8guns / 3 = 90,667 dpm

4x 130mm/55 B-2-U Twin

  • HE 1900 dmg * 12RPM * 8guns / 3 = 60,800 dpm
  • AP 2600 dmg * 12RPM * 8guns / 3 = 83,200 dpm

3x 128mm L/45 Drh LC/41 Twin

  • HE 1500 dmg * 15RPM * 6guns / 3 = 45,000 dpm
  • AP 3000 dmg * 15RPM * 6guns / 3 = 90,000 dpm
Edited by MrDeaf

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2 hours ago, MrDeaf said:

-snip-

 

I would never want single turrets, you're basically dropping everything that makes the akizuki akizuki. sheer volume of fire.

Edited by JackBinary

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10 hours ago, JackBinary said:

 

I would never want single turrets, you're basically dropping everything that makes the akizuki akizuki. sheer volume of fire.

Those 127mm/54 Mark42 fire at 40RPM, which is the same volume of fire as 20RPM twin turrets.

The ballistics are significantly better than either too.

Edited by MrDeaf

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Theoretically, you could also look at some JMSDF destroyers of the 50s to see if there is something too.

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On 10/15/2017 at 10:41 AM, MrDeaf said:

Those 127mm/54 Mark42 fire at 40RPM, which is the same volume of fire as 20RPM twin turrets.

The ballistics are significantly better than either too.

Also, post WWI japan really didn't do single turrets in their destroyers until AFTER WWII.

there was a limited run on the hatsuharu/shiratsuyu classes, but the former had that single turret replaced with AA guns during WWII.

you might like the USN guns, but they wouldn't fit the look and feel of a japanese destroyer, ESPECIALLY an akizuki.

Even the Harutsuki, which was handed over to russia at the end of the war kept the twin turrets, even though they were swapped to russian 4 inch guns.

There's also the shotgun effect. it's much more user friendly to fire twice as many shells at a time, even if it's half as often.

 

All of the above come down to this:

Single turret guns would ruin the kitakaze for me.

It would ruin the akizuki aesthetics, it would make her feel awkward, and it wouldn't mesh with my playstyle as an akizuki main (I have more akizuki games than kagerou, yuugumo, and shimakaze combined. Maybe even akatsuki.)

Single turrets are unacceptable on an akizuki derivative. That's all I have to say on that topic.

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I did some math.

 

Gearing Armament:
3x2 127 mm/38 mk38 mod 0, 20 RPM, 2100/1800
6*20*2100 / 6*20*1800 = 252K/216K

 

Shimakaze Armament:
3x2 127mm/50 type 3, 10.45 RPM, 2100/1800
6*10.45*2200 / 6*10.45*1800 = 138K/113K

 

Theoretical T10 Akizuki DPM would have to be less than gearing, but much more than shimakaze.
Therefor, we know that among 8 guns, at 2200/1800 dmg per shell, and a maximum damage less than 252K/216K, we can solve for a maximum rate of fire.
8*x*2200 / 8*x*1800 < 252K/216K
x < 14.32 RPM
Therefore the reload time must be between 4s (15 RPM) and 5s (12RPM)
Using 4.4s (13.5 RPM), we can solve for a new DPM:
8*13.5*2200 / 8*13.5*1800 = 238K/194K

 

Continuing this math, we can also figure out approximately what the T10 Akizuki derivative’s heath should be.

Using the average of T8’s health, Akizuki not included, 16460, and akikzuki’s health herself, 20400, we can solve for a ratio of ship HP over Average HP of 1.239

Applying this to the average HP of T10, which is actually 20200 HP, we can find that T10 akizuki derivative’s health should be appx 25K.

This health and gunpower would come at the cost of speed and torpedo armament.
The Kitakaze class (which this is mostly based on) had a top speed of only 36.7 knots.
This would make it faster than the gearing, but slower than every other T10 destroyer.

She would also only have one torpedo launcher, perhaps a quintuple launcher. This gives her 5 tubes, versus the Z-52’s 8, the Gearing, Khabarovsk, and Grozovoi’s 10, and the Shimakaze’s 15. TRB would make this effectively 10, but only a handful of times per match.

 

Thus, to summarize, an Akizuki derivative at T10 could have the following stats, in order to be competitive without causing power creep.

~25000 HP
19mm standard DD plating
36.7 knt
4x2 127mm/50 Type 3 Kai, 13.5 RPM
1x5 633 Type 93 mod 3, (12km)
 

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On 10/13/2017 at 9:31 AM, JackBinary said:

As it currently stands, this is the only line in the game that does not reach Tier 10, any word on whether or not this will be remedied any time soon?

 

Many of the so called "paper" ships in this game did indeed exist on paper, and detailed plans were made for them.   Having that information has then given Wargaming a basis to add such a ship to the game.  For example, the new Tier 10 Russian destroyer Grozovoi is based on Russia's Type 40 Project design, which was cancelled in 1944, with no ships ever actually being built.  

No such paper plans exist for Japan.   Japan's military was extremely thorough in destroying all of their engineering records, when they surrendered.  The military did not want their sworn enemy, the United States, to benefit in any way by learning about their work.   Remember that Japan had suffered heavy civilian casualties from America's bombing campaign, and hatred of Americans in Japan was very high back then.  Consequently, no records of any ship designs survived the war.   Not even for the ships that were actually built.  

So Wargaming literally has nothing to go on, in designing some higher tier ships.   They would have to play the role of ship designer themselves, and fabricate a ship without any real historical context.

.

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13 hours ago, JackBinary said:

Also, post WWI japan really didn't do single turrets in their destroyers until AFTER WWII.

there was a limited run on the hatsuharu/shiratsuyu classes, but the former had that single turret replaced with AA guns during WWII.

you might like the USN guns, but they wouldn't fit the look and feel of a japanese destroyer, ESPECIALLY an akizuki.

Even the Harutsuki, which was handed over to russia at the end of the war kept the twin turrets, even though they were swapped to russian 4 inch guns.

There's also the shotgun effect. it's much more user friendly to fire twice as many shells at a time, even if it's half as often.

 

All of the above come down to this:

Single turret guns would ruin the kitakaze for me.

It would ruin the akizuki aesthetics, it would make her feel awkward, and it wouldn't mesh with my playstyle as an akizuki main (I have more akizuki games than kagerou, yuugumo, and shimakaze combined. Maybe even akatsuki.)

Single turrets are unacceptable on an akizuki derivative. That's all I have to say on that topic.

There is nothing wrong with USN guns on Japanese line, because the Japanese moved onto a locally built, Fletcher derived, hull.
In fact, there is nothing beyond Kitakaze

Even the Americans moved away from the Allen M. Sumner and Gearing design and reverted to a Fletcher derived hull with their Forrest Sherman-class.

Also, I don't really care about your aesthetics.

 

But, as for the guns...

There is the Type 1, which was planned for a twin turret and capable of 18rpm.
Type 1 and Mark42 will have comparable ballistics.

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNJAP_5-50_t1.php

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11 hours ago, MrDeaf said:

There is nothing wrong with USN guns on Japanese line, because the Japanese moved onto a locally built, Fletcher derived, hull.
In fact, there is nothing beyond Kitakaze

Even the Americans moved away from the Allen M. Sumner and Gearing design and reverted to a Fletcher derived hull with their Forrest Sherman-class.

Also, I don't really care about your aesthetics.

 

But, as for the guns...

There is the Type 1, which was planned for a twin turret and capable of 18rpm.
Type 1 and Mark42 will have comparable ballistics.

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNJAP_5-50_t1.php

I feel as though that would make the most sense for an Akizuki derivative, rather than a usn single barrel.

 

And I don't care that you don't care.

Again, Akizuki is probably my favorite ship in the game, and I'd rather not see her line end on something that doesn't have the Akizuki feel.

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On 10/13/2017 at 0:58 PM, Doomlock said:

Most likely Super Akizuki

 

A 1 second gun reload with a max speed of 15 knots?

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