T8 MM, How bad is it?

[Aeries1]

DATA ANALYSIS THREAD

Been around long enough you would think I know better, but there ya go right there in bold for some to read.

After a 6 month+ break from the game some apparent changes were made in regards to tier 7/5 MM to help improve their fiasco of protecting T4 which had ripple effects all the way up the line.  Now with T5 not getting T7s 66% of the time like it used to it appears to me that T8 is the new "crap" tier as far as being bottom tiered in T10s "constantly".  Since I am grinding 2 T8 cruisers at the moment I have noticed much more T10 games than I remember in the past.  Is it worse?  Am I just remembering wrong?  Or am I just seeing what I want to see?

I will just record the data and see where the numbers fall.  Will note how many games and percentage that I receive top tier, mid tier, and bottom tier MM and will update as I go along.  Anybody wanting to chip in on the data is welcome and we can see what we come up with.

50 Game Update

Well as you can see it is pretty bad so far.  Almost 6/10 games are 2 tiered.  70% of the time you are going to be uptiered.  That is pretty bad imho, not quite as bad as the old T5 MM, but with the huge grind of T8 ships you can't help but wonder if it is nothing more than a paywall.  Interesting things to note are though 30% of games are top tier it is not like you are 1 of maybe 2 8s clubbing all sixes, out of 50 games I saw no more than 4 T6 ships in a single match with 2 being the average.  On the opposite end the average T10 game saw 4 to 5 and there were many games where I was 1 of 2 T8s against nothing but 10s.  Chappy uptiers fine, Edin so so, NO is just horrible.  It is beyond weak at T10, ground through it with flags and insta-sold the ship.

Data

Top Tier - 26

Mid Tier - 10

Bottom Tier - 37

Total Games - 73

Percentages

Top - 35.6%

Mid - 13.7%

Bottom - 50.7%

[Ace_04]

You can regularly expect T10 games in T8 ships of late, as the top tiers have become more populated.  This is not only due to the longer tenure of active players, but also because of the current Yammamoto campaign requires a lot of high tier ships. 

 

Thankfully, there are a several T8 ships that aren't too bothered by being uptiered.  As for the others, they will be a grind.  I found Kagero and Edinburgh especially painful against T10's.

[AVR_Project]

Tier 8 is the new paywall.

With the new 'economy' camo for the T9/T10 ships, they will rarely go negative in credits...  not even in a losing Co-Op game.

No camo?  Bust out your wallet for each mission.

....   So you want to play your tier 8 ships....   Oh..  Goodie!!  More XP Piñatas have come to be deleted...

[Ajax_the_Great1]

My last 50 T8 games have been 20 top, 10 middle, 20 bottom. So basically an even spread but usually an extreme of top or bottom.

 

I did however go through a streak recently of 7 top, 6 middle, and 29 bottom.

[AJTP89]

T8 does see primarily T10 now, as I can attest too. However, T8 is perfectly capable to working in T10 matches. Instead of complaining about it, learn to play with it. I don't feel useless in a T10 match in my T8 ships.

 

AVR, I play on a standard account with no premium camoes, and very rarely lose credits on a match. T9, yes. T8 is fine for credits though.

[Ghost_Raven75]

I've noticed it as well.  I've been grinding the Monarch and its been quite painful.

[kerensky914]

It isn't a change to the matchmaker.  It's simply a function of the number of players and the tier they're playing at.  If you don't have enough Tier 9/10 players at any one time, MM has to pull up 8's to fill those matches. 

For instance, people have been complaining about Tier 5 matchmaking ever since the protected tier 4 change.  It really drove the Tier 5 (and 6 to a lesser degree) population down to the point that Tier 5 was getting uptiered a good 90-95% of the time.  But yesterday, with the missions for the new Russian BB and all the Okhotnik rentals out there, Tier 5 has had a ton more people queueing up.  I played 7-8 games at Tier 5 and was only uptiered once.

Basically, if we had 50k players online at any one time, you'd probably see +1/-1 MM almost exclusively.  But at the level of players online currently, it makes a huge difference what tier people are playing at.  And if players are avoiding a tier because "MM screws Tier ??" then it becomes self-fulfilling.

4 minutes ago, AVR_Project said:

With the new 'economy' camo for the T9/T10 ships, they will rarely go negative in credits...  not even in a losing Co-Op game.

Yes, that's a big factor also.  The original concept made it hard to earn credits at tiers 9/10, and that helped out the MM balance in the mid tiers.  Now that incentive is gone.

[TTK_Aegis]

It's not that bad. Just play more carefully than if you're top tier. 

Top tier? Focus on being the predator.
Bottom tier? Realize you're the prey and fight with an eye toward survival.

T8 is my favorite tier. I have no issue with being uptiered because I adapt how I play to what enemies I'm facing. Play smart and you'll be fine. 

[Aeries1]

13 minutes ago, Ace_04 said:

You can regularly expect T10 games in T8 ships of late, as the top tiers have become more populated.  This is not only due to the longer tenure of active players, but also because of the current Yammamoto campaign requires a lot of high tier ships. 

 

Thankfully, there are a several T8 ships that aren't too bothered by being uptiered.  As for the others, they will be a grind.  I found Kagero and Edinburgh especially painful against T10's.

Yeah working on NO and Edin now.  Think cruisers are probably the most affected.

 

8 minutes ago, AJTP89 said:

T8 does see primarily T10 now, as I can attest too. However, T8 is perfectly capable to working in T10 matches. Instead of complaining about it, learn to play with it. I don't feel useless in a T10 match in my T8 ships.

 

AVR, I play on a standard account with no premium camoes, and very rarely lose credits on a match. T9, yes. T8 is fine for credits though.

This isn't a complaint thread, merely a statistics and data thread.  If you want to try the boohoo, git gud, deal with it trite, take it elsewhere, barking up the wrong tree.  Contribute or see your way to the door.  Good day.

[AVR_Project]

8 minutes ago, AJTP89 said:

T8 does see primarily T10 now, as I can attest too. However, T8 is perfectly capable to working in T10 matches. Instead of complaining about it, learn to play with it. I don't feel useless in a T10 match in my T8 ships.

 

AVR, I play on a standard account with no premium camoes, and very rarely lose credits on a match. T9, yes. T8 is fine for credits though.

The lowest tier I have lost credits on was tier 5.   It totally shook me...  but then it was a quickly melting Killer Co-Op battle.

I lost 165,000 credits on a Missouri match once.  I spent the whole battle fighting off 2 forts in one of the old Bastian game modes.  Killed one, got killed by another...   earned ZERO credits -- all bills - ammo - service, etc.  results 0 - 0 - 0.   Zero damage.  The bill would have been less for AFK since I wouldn't be using any ammo suppressing the forts for half the mission.

[IronWolfV]

This has absolutely nothing to do with tier 4 MM and everything to do with tier 10 getting a bigger population.

 

This effect happened in tanks 3 years ago once a lot of people got a lot of tier 10s. It's really not surprising.

 

I swear reading some of the threads on MM is like reading a tanks forum 3-5 years ago, almost verbatim.

[Cobraclutch]

Not bad at all. 

 

I am so tired of hearing the whining about the MM in this game.  

1 minute ago, IronWolfV said:

This has absolutely nothing to do with tier 4 MM and everything to do with tier 10 getting a bigger population.

 

This effect happened in tanks 3 years ago once a lot of people got a lot of tier 10s. It's really not surprising.

 

I swear reading some of the threads on MM is like reading a tanks forum 3-5 years ago, almost verbatim.

 

Except as a bottom tier 8 tank , there is a lot you cannot do. 

 

WOWS doesn't have that problem, but the whining still remains.. They really don't realize how good they have it .. 

[Dr_Venture]

School of Hard Knocks...you gotta learn or get out.

[Aeries1]

8 minutes ago, Cobraclutch said:

Not bad at all. 

 

I am so tired of hearing the whining about the MM in this game.  

 

Except as a bottom tier 8 tank , there is a lot you cannot do. 

 

WOWS doesn't have that problem, but the whining still remains.. They really don't realize how good they have it .. 

Reading OP, please nerf.  It is a data thread.  2/10 troll attempt though, good try.

[RipNuN2]

This data doesnt tell you much. There is a huge difference between a bottom tier match having 1 T10 versus being the sole T8 in a T10 match.

[Cobraclutch]

12 minutes ago, Aeries1 said:

Reading OP, please nerf.  It is a data thread.  2/10 troll attempt though, good try.

Understanding OP. 

 

Question on thread. How bad is tier 8 MM. 

 

Answer provided. 

 

Lots of threads concerning MM being lame these days.+ your whine about tier 8 being a crap tier. 

 

56 minutes ago, Aeries1 said:

 it appears to me that T8 is the new "crap" tier as far as being bottom tiered in T10s "constantly". 

 

Commented on this, tired of hearing excuses about being low tier is "unfair" or "crap" as you put it.

 

 

0/10 witty comment attempt though. Bad try.. 

[Trash_Taste_In_Waifus]

tier eight has been (as i found) the worst tier to play. sure there are SOME ships that can be uptiered and still put on a fight. tirpitz, bismarck, kutuzov, Harekaze/ Kagero.

but ships like Benson, New Orleans, North carolina, Edinburgh really tend to struggle when getting uptiered.

 

 

 

ships:

United States Navy = Erie, Smith, St. Louis, South carolina, Clemson, Pheonix, Wyoming, New York, Farragut, Cleveland, New Mexico, Mahan, Sims, Saipan, Atlanta, Pensacola, Colorado, Benson, New Orleans, North carolina, Baltimore, Iowa, Montana, Des moines

 

IJN = Hashidate, isokaze, kawachi, myogi, ishzuchi, kongo, fuso, Kaga, harekaze

 

French = Bouganville, fraint.

 

Royal Navy = Black Swan, bellephron, emreald, leander, fiji, belfast, edinburgh, neptune, minotaur.

 

germany = hemerlin, v-25, nassau, kasier, konig, konigsberg, bismarck

 

russian = gnevy, kirov, kutuzov

[Xlap]

T8 is fine, most of the t8 ships are capable of facing t10 with no problems. 

 

Its fun how players are complaining about every single tier lately.

[mofton]

In theory T6 no longer seeing T4 should mean that there are more T6's in the T6-T8 range and more top tiering for T8. Doesn't seem to work that way, though T6 complains of remorseless uptiering. 

 

[Skarp_AGW]

40 minutes ago, TTK_Aegis said:

It's not that bad. Just play more carefully than if you're top tier. 

Top tier? Focus on being the predator.
Bottom tier? Realize you're the prey and fight with an eye toward survival.

T8 is my favorite tier. I have no issue with being uptiered because I adapt how I play to what enemies I'm facing. Play smart and you'll be fine. 

^^^ This

 

When you see that you are bottom tier with a X heavy Red team looking for easy blood, you need to reset your tactical focus. If you are a BB  stay in support, don't try to be at the head of a push. If you are a CL stay out of positions that will make you an easy focus-fire target. Think less "Eye-of-the-Tiger", and more "sneaky weasel", or "Mammal in the age of Dinosaurs". Be an uninviting, elusive target.

 

I think the Yamamoto Campaign is a huge factor in the current MM. It requires Tier VIII - X ships, so the folks that have Tier X ships are using them for the missions. That means a lot more Tier Xs than would ordinarily be the case. Most Tier VIII ships do fine being up-tiered as long as you play smart.

 

P.S. A sample size of 4 games does not qualify as "data".

[Sovereigndawg]

1 hour ago, AJTP89 said:

T8 does see primarily T10 now, as I can attest too. However, T8 is perfectly capable to working in T10 matches. Instead of complaining about it, learn to play with it. I don't feel useless in a T10 match in my T8 ships.

Capable maybe, fun? not really.

[cthuhulu]

The problem with being bottom tier (8) is your capacity to make up for any taters on your team. I don't mind playing support to the X's, but if they do something stupid like the two div'd shima's I had the poor luck of being stuck with last night (abandoning b on Trap map) it makes it very hard to contribute.

[Parliament_Funkadelic]

I just played ten Atago games without logging off to actually measure MM and grind my Yamamoto captain. 

3-top tier games

3-mid tier

4-bottom tier

It probably seems like tier 8 is always bottom tier as many tier nine ships are a big jump in performance compared to eights. I would argue that playing tier eight against tens is by far the best training in the game....But it is nice to club some 6's every once in a while.

[STINKWEED_]

For me the big difference has been the ratio. I'm also noticing that my Bismarck now gets t10 battles more than 70% of the time where it used to about 45% in the past.

The big issue is that when I'm in a T10 battle, my Bismarck is now almost always the only t8 BB and the rest are all t10. This is ridiculous since I can't match their range and instantly become targeted and seal clubbed as soon as I'm spotted.

[Parliament_Funkadelic]

4 minutes ago, STINKWEED_ said:

For me the big difference has been the ratio. I'm also noticing that my Bismarck now gets t10 battles more than 70% of the time where it used to about 45% in the past.

The big issue is that when I'm in a T10 battle, my Bismarck is now almost always the only t8 BB and the rest are all t10. This is ridiculous since I can't match their range and instantly become targeted and seal clubbed as soon as I'm spotted.

I am betting that there is a formula that starts a tier 8 out at a ten game or two each time a user logs on....So if you play a few games in one ship....log off, log back on and play that same ship your "formula" resets and you get the tier ten game or two to start that session..which leads to the feeling of always getting bottom tier at tier 8.

just a theory.