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Black_Kraken

Please adjust Match Making

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So me and my buddies have been playing WoWs for quite a while (I have been playing since the beta weekends myself) and something that is increasingly becoming apparent, and annoying, is the shoddy match making now a days. We are all in Teir VI ships, I in my Bayern or Nurnberg, Another in a Nurnberg, and the last switching between a Farragut  and an Arizona. For over 8 hours today we have been thrusted into matches with Teir VIII ships and aren't able to perform in battle due to being outclassed in every way, let alone be able to work towards the Oktyabrskaya Revolutsiya  at a reasonable pace. Why are people being outclassed by 2 teirs when we are just playing in a division. Limiting the matchmaking to +/- 1 teir is reasonable, but +/- 2 teirs is hurting the game and gameplay greatly.

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what is happening is your getting screwed by the end of the anti seal clubbing  protected mm you now get  up to tier 4  

up to tier 4 you will see +1/-1 mm, but at tier 5 it ends and normal  +2/-2 mm starts.   what this does is give tier 5 and 6 ships  more than their fair share of being on the bottom tier in the battle.

 

  i personally believe that this is the reason  wg started selling  all the tier 7 premium ships you now see,  once people realized what  was happening ,  people refuse to pay $$$$ for ships that get shafted by mm all the time

 

but once you get to and start playing tier 7 , it will be back to normal , with you getting  a balanced  amount of top, mid  and bottom tier battles

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Matchmaking is just fine. If you are driving a low-tier ship in a match then so is someone on the other team because the matchmaker doesn't stack all high-tier ships against all low-tier ships. If you can't hold your own in a match where there are ships two tiers higher than you then you are playing the wrong ship or playing it the wrong way. Try playing the Cleveland, it holds its own well versus tier VIII ships. I've sunk many a Bismark and Tirpitz with my Cleveland by hiding behind an island and raining fire down upon them either undetected or safe from return fire.

Edited by Snargfargle

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Play tier X and never be bottom tier again :Smile_teethhappy:

 

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I actually agree MM needs to be addressed in this regard. It really puts people off from the game, it was part of the reason my one friend stopped playing. For new players WOWs already has a huge learning curve and you can get to T5 pretty easy. Imagine still going through the learning process and now 80% of your games are against T7 ships, not fun.

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17 minutes ago, Kevs02Accord said:

I actually agree MM needs to be addressed in this regard. It really puts people off from the game, it was part of the reason my one friend stopped playing. For new players WOWs already has a huge learning curve and you can get to T5 pretty easy. Imagine still going through the learning process and now 80% of your games are against T7 ships, not fun.

 

Yep, remove "protection" at T4. That way, when you get to T5 and are still learning, only 33-% of your games will be against T7 ships.

 

Without going to +/-1 MM, (sorry Quaffer) which is highly unlikely to happen, "protecting" tiers is always going to screw over the next couple tiers. That's why the screwing was better in T4, where you only had to suffer through 15-20K XP, instead of T5, where it's 35-40K XP.

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1 hour ago, Skpstr said:

 

Yep, remove "protection" at T4. That way, when you get to T5 and are still learning, only 33-% of your games will be against T7 ships.

 

Without going to +/-1 MM, (sorry Quaffer) which is highly unlikely to happen, "protecting" tiers is always going to screw over the next couple tiers. That's why the screwing was better in T4, where you only had to suffer through 15-20K XP, instead of T5, where it's 35-40K XP.

I think removing the protected MM would help some, but ultimately moving MM to +-1 I think is best. I still don't enjoy being bottom tier as a T6 or T8 on a regular basis. As for what WG is or is not willing to do I dont know.

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better idea, go to same tier and if you can't get enough put in bots, it really is ridiculous, I'm stuck at 3 in battleships right now because I can't get a decent match, and CVs keep primary on any t3 that is on the map

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On 10/12/2017 at 10:41 AM, Skpstr said:

 

Yep, remove "protection" at T4. That way, when you get to T5 and are still learning, only 33-% of your games will be against T7 ships.

 

Without going to +/-1 MM, (sorry Quaffer) which is highly unlikely to happen, "protecting" tiers is always going to screw over the next couple tiers. That's why the screwing was better in T4, where you only had to suffer through 15-20K XP, instead of T5, where it's 35-40K XP.

 

Aside from the fact that the percentage of games where T5-6 are bottom tier would not change one bit, T3 and T4 were insufferable grinds because the ships were literally outclassed. And I'm not talking about being at a disadvantage like having lower health or less accurate guns. I'm talking about lacking the speed and range to actually play. No matter what anyone says, Kawachi and SCal against any T5 ship was NEVER balanced. You get kited and physically cannot engage T5s unless they let you. It's barely balanced against T4 but at least you can fight back since both ships were buffed.

 

The only reason low tier grinds feel short is because you're going back when new lines come out with all the experience you need to play well. Someone who barely understands how to aim will play poorly and lose more. These new players deserve protection. I don't want this game to turn into WoT where WG bleeds out the veteran players while failing to attract new players.

Edited by awildseaking

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17 hours ago, awildseaking said:

 

Aside from the fact that the percentage of games where T5-6 are bottom tier would not change one bit....

 

Sure it would. If you remove the latest T4 protection, T5-6 MM would revert back to the way it was before the protection was added. Nobody complained about T5-6 MM before T4 was protected.

 

Quote

 

T3 and T4 were insufferable grinds because the ships were literally outclassed. And I'm not talking about being at a disadvantage like having lower health or less accurate guns. I'm talking about lacking the speed and range to actually play. No matter what anyone says, Kawachi and SCal against any T5 ship was NEVER balanced. You get kited and physically cannot engage T5s unless they let you. It's barely balanced against T4 but at least you can fight back since both ships were buffed.

 

No disagreement there.

 

Quote

 

The only reason low tier grinds feel short is because you're going back when new lines come out with all the experience you need to play well. Someone who barely understands how to aim will play poorly and lose more. These new players deserve protection. I don't want this game to turn into WoT where WG bleeds out the veteran players while failing to attract new players.

 

It's a subjective thing I guess, all the grinds up to Tier 5 always felt pretty quick to me.

 

Regardless, yes, you're protecting the new players, no issue with that. But when they stop being new players, the tiers that a lot of them would feel comfortable playing are disadvantaged, and they're forced to grind to higher tiers to get out of it.

 

So you still bleed veteran players who like the mid-tier meta, (or worse force them down to seal club the "protected" tiers, where they can run roughshod over the new players because, well, they're protected) and the new players that would quit at T4 quit at T5 instead.

 

Plus, in addition to the dunk in the deep end, which happens at T5 with the protection instead of T4, at the same time, radar makes an appearance, and you go from facing Bogues to Saipans and Kagas. 

 

Personally, it doesn't really matter to me, because I'm experienced, and already past T5 in all the lines. Therefore, when I play T5, I only have to play fully upgraded ships that uptier well, with camo and upgrades.

 

 

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WG decided it was worth wrecking the two most popular tiers and driving off new players because they could sell more high tier premiums that way. 

 

The change had nothing to do with protecting T4 players.

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15 hours ago, Skpstr said:

 

Sure it would. If you remove the latest T4 protection, T5-6 MM would revert back to the way it was before the protection was added. Nobody complained about T5-6 MM before T4 was protected.

Regardless, yes, you're protecting the new players, no issue with that. But when they stop being new players, the tiers that a lot of them would feel comfortable playing are disadvantaged, and they're forced to grind to higher tiers to get out of it.

So you still bleed veteran players who like the mid-tier meta, (or worse force them down to seal club the "protected" tiers, where they can run roughshod over the new players because, well, they're protected) and the new players that would quit at T4 quit at T5 instead.

Plus, in addition to the dunk in the deep end, which happens at T5 with the protection instead of T4, at the same time, radar makes an appearance, and you go from facing Bogues to Saipans and Kagas. 

Personally, it doesn't really matter to me, because I'm experienced, and already past T5 in all the lines. Therefore, when I play T5, I only have to play fully upgraded ships that uptier well, with camo and upgrades.

There is no such thing as reverting MM because tier distribution is based on population, not rules. If you want to revert MM, you would have to restore the player population to where it was a year and a half ago. That means eliminating most T8 premiums from the game, reverting the economy buffs to force people into T5 premiums, and reverting overall progression so more players are at low/mid tiers. Nobody complained back then because there were so many low/mid tiers and so few high tiers that T5/T6 was favorable without restrictions. Restrictions were put in place to deal with server progression.

I don't know where you got the idea in bold from, but there is no more reliable clubbing in WoWS. T4 is the cutoff point because the idea of protection is to play among your peers. Obviously, you can't stop people from attempting to club. What you can do is make clubbing unrewarding. The current system strongly disincentivizes clubbing. If you club at T3, T4 or T5, you're usually bottom tier. It isn't possible to reliably club anymore without abusing CV divisions. WG could easily remedy this by disabling T4 CV from divisions. Or better yet, forcibly match clubber divisions against one another. This already happens with T9 clubbers. They will div with a T7 CV to try and force top tier. When the divs get matched, MM rules go out the window. This can result in a T7 CV match in a T10 game. Imagine if clubbing divs put T4 bait into a T7 match.

Someone is far more likely to quit when their first few games are absolute [edited] than when their 500th game is a bit challenging.

There's nothing inherently disadvantaged about T5. Some ships are objectively superior in many situations. Bottom tier DD often have better concealment, CL have higher RoF before they transition into CA, BB have more guns, etc. The only blatant, universal disadvantage is for CV, which wouldn't be anywhere near as difficult if manual fire had not been removed.

The inherent advantage of being a veteran player at low/mid tiers is that you know what you're doing while most people don't. You deserve to be put at a disadvantage.

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As best I can remember, I have never been upset being bottom tiered -2.  As I've gained experience, I've learned how to play any ship I have at any tier delta, be it bottom, mid, or top.  There are many occasions when I top out the score when bottom tiered -2.  It's all part of the strategy of the game.  Same ship, at a different tier, often requires a DIFFERENT play style.  Play a bottom tier ship like it's top tier and one will often die quickly.  So instead of treating a bottom tier MM as a "Oh my god, I can't win...I"m bottom tiered"...treat it as a "Hmmm...bottom tier...what I can I do to help my team win".  Figure out the latter, I and you will understand that bottom tier really isn't that bad.

 

Not to mention the sense of accomplishment when you pull off a bottom tier win..and top out...in a glass cruiser.  Doesn't happen often on the top out, but there are many more where even a middle of the pack makes the difference in a win/loss.

 

vvv.thumb.jpg.f27ba36a81f26332af7918c8fd689d45.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

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Yes, I guess this is another tier thread. Complaints are common enough. In basic fact the ideal play is no tier difference. T1 thru T10 play their own tier so skill determines most outcomes. If an uber vet wants to play at T3 or 4 or 5 etc...then they play in a ship of that tier and can truly enjoy their superior skill. For newcomers, they can have a bit more fun if only thru luck while they learn the game.

So why not single tier play? Population. The game is not keeping new players. Say whatever you like about reasons but new players are not having enough fun to keep it up with all the other games out there. WG has made their decisions about increasing population, like it or not and failing or not. The MM does seem to be one of the core problems, hence all the threads and comments. Unfortunately far too many of the highly skilled players either deride anyone who states their concern or ignore the problems of anyone else.

As a retired game designer I have ideas about making CV play fun while not duplicating the OP nature of CVs in reality. I have ideas about sectioned, time setting single tier tryouts asking for responses to such experimentation. However, I am a nobody, certainly not listened to more than any other forumite. WG employees in St. Petersberg make these decisions and analyses. Not sure what else can be done.

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On 10/12/2017 at 2:34 PM, Batwingsix said:

:Smile_popcorn:

 

Here we go again

Not here we go again. This is a freakishly easy problem to solve. 

 

Its shameful that we get things like RDF and deep water torps that nobody needed or asked for, but urgent and easily solved problems are constantly ignored.

Edited by Taichunger

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Fascinating how people response at this thread in different ways, but the content is same by the same person. Very fascinating.

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On 10/11/2017 at 11:39 PM, Black_Kraken said:

So me and my buddies have been playing WoWs for quite a while (I have been playing since the beta weekends myself) and something that is increasingly becoming apparent, and annoying, is the shoddy match making now a days. We are all in Teir VI ships, I in my Bayern or Nurnberg, Another in a Nurnberg, and the last switching between a Farragut  and an Arizona. For over 8 hours today we have been thrusted into matches with Teir VIII ships and aren't able to perform in battle due to being outclassed in every way, let alone be able to work towards the Oktyabrskaya Revolutsiya  at a reasonable pace. Why are people being outclassed by 2 teirs when we are just playing in a division. Limiting the matchmaking to +/- 1 teir is reasonable, but +/- 2 teirs is hurting the game and gameplay greatly.

I hate the +2/-2 matchmaking, many players do. Is why there are literally hundreds of threads on it with thousands of posts decrying it. There are defenders of it, usually mediocre players who like the idea of beating up on new players or having a superior ship. You are up tiered about 75% of the time from my experience. What I do is focus on the mission at hand. If you need to sink cruisers, ignore everything else and sink cruisers. I you need to shoot down planes, focus on that. Don't worry about anything else but your mission objectives. This will ruin your "stats" but they are pretty meaningless IMHO. Just play the game to get what YOU want from the game, nothing else. It makes the game bearable, you get cool stuff, and when you got what you want out of the game, play a tier you feel comfortable in and happy playing at. Wargaming won't change it because they can't keep people playing the game. Too few people play at upper tiers so they have to drag people into matches with inferior ships/captains.  

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