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Cpt_Cupcake

CV snipes becoming common at t8?

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I've noticed, for me at least, the enemy CV keeps trying to snipe me early in game. Usually strike Lex, but the other cvs are I've seem to notice doing it too. Anyone else notice this change in meta or is it just me?

(Not a whine, it hasn't worked on me once and I usually collect 20 plane kills from them.)

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It's a high risk high return strategy. It's been going since open beta.

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Yeah seems to depend on the day and everything, but at tier 8 the AA starts getting string enough that the prospect of taking out the enemy CV and gaining no air superiority is a quite enticing idea for many since it allows them to only have to worry about the AA ships and picking and choosing what enemy surface ships to hit.

Even tiers 5-7 they can try CV sniping, but not as often as you go lower.

It's one of the reasons I am not touching CVs at tier 8 until I am certain my Captains have everything they need on them, can't wing it like at lower tier CVs as far as the Captains go and other of the considerations such as AA on my CV being strong enough to take down anything that slips past my Fighters.

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Well,I don't think it's really a change, if it's mostly strike Lex's trying it against you, they might not see much of a choice, especially when up tiered. You probably have the worst AA in the match (not that it's much consolation to to the Lex, it's still gonna be expensive), and he might get lucky and you're asleep at the wheel. Otherwise the Lex is just in for a bad game watching his aircraft evaporate when he spots anything.

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6 minutes ago, SgtBeltfed said:

Well,I don't think it's really a change, if it's mostly strike Lex's trying it against you, they might not see much of a choice, especially when up tiered. You probably have the worst AA in the match (not that it's much consolation to to the Lex, it's still gonna be expensive), and he might get lucky and you're asleep at the wheel. Otherwise the Lex is just in for a bad game watching his aircraft evaporate when he spots anything.

the CV *NEVER* has the worst AA rating in a game, especially after Tier 8 -- not to mention all cvs T8+ has mandatory DFAA. 

However, at T8 and up I am more and more frequently noticing my strike planes just sitting on top of our AA bubble because there's no opening for me to push through -- which means circling and hitting the CV might be the most productive thing to do. 

This is especially true for Strike USNs as they often have more leeway with their planes (I have gone losing all my planes once in Lexington, but countless times in Shokaku and Taiho) and the reward of actually taking down an enemy cv -- or at least halve its health and forcing it to play much more defensively -- far outweigh the risk of losing all planes in that strike. 

 

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Unless the defending CV shoots down you planes... that spent 5 mins getting to the enemy cv... just to be greeted by fighters and the t8 CVs' DF.

At tier 8, the enemy cv should be doing better things then attempting a High risk, little-to-show-for-it stunt like cv snipe. If the targeted CV lets it happen, by not popping DF or recalling his fighters, he really wasn't much of a threat to begin with. At t8, It is a potato, still trying to relive his t7- days of strike package USN.

Sorry, but it drives me nuts to see a cv played badly in such a manner.

 

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1 hour ago, Bill_Halsey said:

It's a high risk high return strategy. It's been going since open beta.

 

Pretty much this.  This is some 1944 Ardennes Offensive level of gambling.

 

I can understand the Strike Lexington's gamble of an early CV Snipe.  Take the enemy CV out, now you no longer have to deal with fighters.  No fighters?  A Strike Lexington suddenly becomes an extremely dangerous CV to the opposing team as every single bit of her hangar is dedicated to attack, nothing wasted on fighters.

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22 minutes ago, iCarus0726 said:

the CV *NEVER* has the worst AA rating in a game, especially after Tier 8 -- not to mention all cvs T8+ has mandatory DFAA. 

However, at T8 and up I am more and more frequently noticing my strike planes just sitting on top of our AA bubble because there's no opening for me to push through -- which means circling and hitting the CV might be the most productive thing to do. 

This is especially true for Strike USNs as they often have more leeway with their planes (I have gone losing all my planes once in Lexington, but countless times in Shokaku and Taiho) and the reward of actually taking down an enemy cv -- or at least halve its health and forcing it to play much more defensively -- far outweigh the risk of losing all planes in that strike. 

 

A tier 8 CV on it's own has the worst AA in the match when everything else is in groups with higher tier cruisers.

 

My Shokaku has a 57 with a cooldown, Most cruisers tier 9 and up have better, and have a cooldown available to them. Add to that, they probably aren't alone.

 

Now, I'm not going to say that CV sniping is a smart thing to do, if the other CV skipper is paying any attention, the strike lex is going to lose everything he sent, for no gain. (If I don't see the lex's aircraft after a couple minutes, I'm pulling my fighters back)

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1 hour ago, Bill_Halsey said:

It's a high risk high return strategy. It's been going since open beta.

I'd say high-risk, low-return. Most of the time, you don't kill the enemy CV, you lose most of your squadrons if not all of them, and you've just wasted 8-10 minutes of the match.

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3 hours ago, Bill_Halsey said:

It's a high risk high return strategy. It's been going since open beta.

^^^^^^^

Exactly, nothing new about that strategy.  I have seen it since I played beta, it's risky and can cost the team the game if the opposing CV takes little to no damage on the first strike.

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A CV snipe is a perfectly valid tactic. As with any tactic used, it sometimes works, sometimes doesn't work. But even if it doesn't work, it will cause the enemy CV to have to change his/her tactics. If they have fighters they'll likely keep some closer to home after a snipe to defend against the next snipe (meaning fewer fighters off spotting or shooting at strike planes going after other targets). It may cause the enemy CV to move from its favored spot, to a spot where friendly ships can more easily get to it.

 

No one would say, "it isn't fair to attack a DD/CA/BB with that CV" - so why do people say it "isn't fair to snipe a CV"?

 

If you think you can delete or badly damage an enemy CV with a snipe - go for it.

If you think you can help the team better by not sniping - go for that.

 

But a CV snipe is always a valid tactic.

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2 hours ago, FleetAdmiral_Assassin said:

If they have fighters they'll likely keep some closer to home after a snipe to defend against the next snipe (meaning fewer fighters off spotting or shooting at strike planes going after other targets). It may cause the enemy CV to move from its favored spot, to a spot where friendly ships can more easily get to it.

I take issue with this, a snipe is obvious as you won't see any aircraft or only fighters spotting for the team. If it's been two minutes and no hostile strike aircraft have been seen assume snipe, I honestly pull back a fighter squad and rotate a strike squad into spotting duty if I think I'm going to be targeted. Once the clump of strike aircraft have been found I strafe it knocking a good number out of the sky. If the hostile carrier has fighters escorting their snipe I simply strafe out of the dog fight and make it all but impossible for the hostile carrier to kill me or even deal minor damage. Meanwhile I simply go after surface ships looking to kill high priority targets to keep my team taking and holding ground. Caps make wins after all, and if they come for me again I repeat the process. I loose only a token amount of damage and spotting damage in return for 20 or 30 aircraft shootdowns in total. Often I don't have to move from my nice and safe position  a good four or five klicks behind the front line. I've even gone to cap a point cause I discovered that both teams abandoned A/C because of said snipe attempt. 

Sure attacking hostile CV is valid, but I haven't fallen for it since closed beta. And anyone who currently has to deal with a CV snipe attempt every other game soon won't fall for it either. The only carrier where it might be a truly valid tactic is Kaga, but that is due to the tier 10 torpedo alpha damage. Otherwise I would say that the risk, especially early on invalidates the tactic as it will take you out of the fight for three or four minutes which if the hostile CV takes advantage of your team will suffer early on, then if the targeted CV realizes that they are under threat they will defend themselves which may cause some adjustment but it may not. I've had friendly Atlanta's notice the snipe roughly when I did and sailed over to greet it. I didn't have to do anything 'cause Atlanta was there to save me. So a good anti-air captain can also defeat the CV snipe meaning that the carrier doesn't have to do anything or adjust anything. Which makes me question why people still do it.

 

As for OP talking about tier 8 the reason that tier 8 carriers get defensive fire is because they can alpha down each other and CV sniping was getting out of hand. 

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I run a snipe/nuke attack on enemy cv from time to time, if I think they have an advantage over me a) better player, b) trophy c) (most common reason) tier 10 match the enemy t8 cv is the easiest boot to sink on the map. Of course, I probably succeed only 1/5 tries, but when it works, I always apologize to the red CV captain for putting them out of the game early.

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23 hours ago, Cpt_Cupcake said:

I've noticed, for me at least, the enemy CV keeps trying to snipe me early in game. Usually strike Lex, but the other cvs are I've seem to notice doing it too. Anyone else notice this change in meta or is it just me?

(Not a whine, it hasn't worked on me once and I usually collect 20 plane kills from them.)

Nope no sign of a snipe for a couple of weeks now, and I'm addicted to the shoukaku now, so that's at least twenty games.

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7 hours ago, Grathew said:

I take issue with this, a snipe is obvious as you won't see any aircraft or only fighters spotting for the team. If it's been two minutes and no hostile strike aircraft have been seen assume snipe, I honestly pull back a fighter squad and rotate a strike squad into spotting duty if I think I'm going to be targeted. Once the clump of strike aircraft have been found I strafe it knocking a good number out of the sky. If the hostile carrier has fighters escorting their snipe I simply strafe out of the dog fight and make it all but impossible for the hostile carrier to kill me or even deal minor damage. Meanwhile I simply go after surface ships looking to kill high priority targets to keep my team taking and holding ground. Caps make wins after all, and if they come for me again I repeat the process. I loose only a token amount of damage and spotting damage in return for 20 or 30 aircraft shootdowns in total. Often I don't have to move from my nice and safe position  a good four or five klicks behind the front line. I've even gone to cap a point cause I discovered that both teams abandoned A/C because of said snipe attempt. 

Sure attacking hostile CV is valid, but I haven't fallen for it since closed beta. And anyone who currently has to deal with a CV snipe attempt every other game soon won't fall for it either. The only carrier where it might be a truly valid tactic is Kaga, but that is due to the tier 10 torpedo alpha damage. Otherwise I would say that the risk, especially early on invalidates the tactic as it will take you out of the fight for three or four minutes which if the hostile CV takes advantage of your team will suffer early on, then if the targeted CV realizes that they are under threat they will defend themselves which may cause some adjustment but it may not. I've had friendly Atlanta's notice the snipe roughly when I did and sailed over to greet it. I didn't have to do anything 'cause Atlanta was there to save me. So a good anti-air captain can also defeat the CV snipe meaning that the carrier doesn't have to do anything or adjust anything. Which makes me question why people still do it.

 

As for OP talking about tier 8 the reason that tier 8 carriers get defensive fire is because they can alpha down each other and CV sniping was getting out of hand. 

This is 100% correct. Snipes at t8+ simply do not work because of the DF consumable. If you pull off a snipe on a T8+ carrier, its essentially cause he allowed you to or he was bad to begin with, negating 1 reason for attempting the CV snipe in the first place. Your time is better spent doing something more productive.

 

The only tiers where a CV snipe is viable, is tiers 4-7.

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When someone trys to snipe me I make a point of letting 1 plane get through per squadron so that he has to fly his planes all the way home and waste even more time while I kill his team...

 

Moral of the story: CV sniping is a waste of time (85% of the time, the exception being a game with more than 1 Minotaur per side)

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CV sniping tends to be non-existent T9-10 as Taiho/Haku have too much HP for panicked DB and TB to reliably destroy and Essex/Midway have nasty AA (before any AA-upgrades) that'll leave few planes alive.

 

I hardly had an issue with CV snipes in Shokaku as I moved with the team and would send my DB to watch the map borders (where team isn't) while fighters and TB did spotting and an early-match attack. There is no way for a CV snipe to sneak past my DB since sending them there before 2-minute mark guarantees I'm there first. Plus most AA-spec cruisers, if they see the incoming snipe, will drop back to help.

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I had this problem, I reset my Enterprise to an AA build hasn’t been much of an issue since. In fact quite fun when it happens.

Edited by GreyFox78659

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