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Soshi_Sone

Manual Fire Control and Defensive AA- Stack?

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Do they multiply?:  Base X 6

Or are they additive?: Base X 4

 

Yeah, after almost 7000 games...I don't know the answer.  Never had to think about it, but I'm looking at some options.

 

 

Edited by Soshi_Sone

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High Alert is DCP cooldown reduction and MFC is for buffing AA DPS or buffing secondary accuracy.  I don't see any overlapping stats unless you mean different skills

 

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23 minutes ago, AhosChaos said:

High Alert is DCP cooldown reduction and MFC is for buffing AA DPS or buffing secondary accuracy.  I don't see any overlapping stats unless you mean different skills

 

 

Oops, sorry.  I meant Defense AA consumable.  I confused the name of the consumable with the voice over when you click it.  Edited fixed.

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I'm pretty sure let did the math on this and they are additive, not multiplacative.  On my phone, so can't really search, else I'd find and link something.  

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2 hours ago, Shadeylark said:

I'm pretty sure let did the math on this and they are additive, not multiplacative.  On my phone, so can't really search, else I'd find and link something.  

 

I think the AA buffs are additive too, but not 100% sure. I tried to do the calcs on AA once before and botched it all up. :Smile_child::Smile_teethhappy:

 

I know LWM knows. Hey, maybe we can summon her. LWM, I will sink you in PvP the first time I see you. :Smile_izmena:

 

Yeah, that should do it. Now I'll get one shot detonated in PvP. :Smile_teethhappy:

Edited by Kizarvexis

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I got a couple opportunities to try this on the Atlanta.

AFT + BFT + Directed AA + Defensive Fire Consumable.

It evaporates whole squadrons of US tier 9 Essex aircraft in a couple seconds.

Atlanta with that setup prevailed in a training room against 3 Hiryu..  but not 4.

BECAUSE OF THAT -- I'D SAY IT STACKS -- RATHER THAN MULTIPLYING THE STACKED RESULTS.

My impression was that the DF/non-DF intervals were not as pronounced.

DF off == AA + AA(directed) + BFT..    DF on == AA + AA(DF) + AA(directed) + BFT..     [Note - this is my impression]

AFT took the AA range beyond the aircraft detection limit, so it's a range buff.

In the Training room, I put two South Carolina's on my team, and used them out front to detect the planes in advance - so my AFT could start firing at them earlier...  tactics...

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I am fairly sure that MFCAA either adds or multiplies on top of the already-present bonus of 30% when manually selecting aircraft, giving a total multiplier of 2.3x or 2.6x (added/multiplied respectively) before adding in Defensive Fire, which definitely multiplies and brings the total to 6.9x/7.8x respectively.

 

This is what makes the Benson AA platform such an integral part of competitive play: last time I did the math, it came out to over 489 DPS for the 5" guns.

Edited by _V12

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Multiplicative.  Most bonuses in game are multiplicative with a few exceptions.

List of AA Bonuses:

  • 20% for Basic Fire Training skill
  • 25% for AA Guns Modification 3 upgrade.
  • 10% for November Echo Setteseven signal.
  • 30% for designating a focus target (CTRL + clicking). 
  • 100% for guns of 85mm or larger with Manual Fire Control for AA Guns skill.  This may replace the focus-target bonus.
  • 25% to 2,400% for Defensive Fire consumable depending on the ship, applicable to guns of 25mm or greater.

So, HMS Hood using her silly rockets:

  • 50 Base DPS
  • 1.2x for BFT
  • 1.1x for Signal
  • 1.3x for Focus Target (?)
  • 2.0x for Manual Fire Control for AA Guns
  • 25.0x for Defensive Fire

Between 3,300 and 4,290dps.

Edited by LittleWhiteMouse
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25 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Multiplicative.  Most bonuses in game are multiplicative with a few exceptions.

List of AA Bonuses:

  • 20% for Basic Fire Training skill
  • 25% for AA Guns Modification 3 upgrade.
  • 10% for November Echo Setteseven signal.
  • 30% for designating a focus target (CTRL + clicking). 
  • 100% for guns of 85mm or larger with Manual Fire Control for AA Guns skill.  This may replace the focus-target bonus.
  • 25% to 2,400% for Defensive Fire consumable depending on the ship, applicable to guns of 25mm or greater.

So, HMS Hood using her silly rockets:

  • 50 Base DPS
  • 1.2x for BFT
  • 1.1x for Signal
  • 1.3x for Focus Target (?)
  • 2.0x for Manual Fire Control for AA Guns
  • 25.0x for Defensive Fire

Between 3,300 and 4,290dps.

 

Thank you, I knew you would know and the last time I tried to figure it out, I botched it all up.

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Does that ctrl click apply any time you click a plane?  Or only if you have the 4 point capt skill?  I do it in all my ships, and get RNG mixed bag results for AA. 

Does it also apply to secondaries vs ships without MFCSA?  If I see a ship and click it, do my secondaries get 30% bonus to?

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5 minutes ago, KnightFandragon said:

Does that ctrl click apply any time you click a plane?  Or only if you have the 4 point capt skill?  I do it in all my ships, and get RNG mixed bag results for AA. 

Does it also apply to secondaries vs ships without MFCSA?  If I see a ship and click it, do my secondaries get 30% bonus to?

Every time.  You should ALWAYS be manually targeting aircraft that are engaging your ship.  You will increase the DPS you deal to them.
Keep in mind, AA guns are fragile and the explosive blasts of HE shells will knock many of them out, greatly reducing your effective DPS over time.

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20 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Every time.  You should ALWAYS be manually targeting aircraft that are engaging your ship.  You will increase the DPS you deal to them.
Keep in mind, AA guns are fragile and the explosive blasts of HE shells will knock many of them out, greatly reducing your effective DPS over time.

 

This is why on my dedicated AA & secondary ships, I take Aux Armament Mod 1 to increase the health of AA and secondaries by 100%.

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2 hours ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:
  • 100% for guns of 85mm or larger with Manual Fire Control for AA Guns skill.  This may replace the focus-target bonus.

Is this a guess or a statement? 

 

I am hoping the big AA guns get +100% but all the other ones under 85mm still get +30%, correct?  

 

 

Edited by AnimaL21
typo

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3 minutes ago, AnimaL21 said:

Is this a guess or a statement?

I am hoping the big AA guns get +100% but all the other ones under 85mm still get +30%, correct? 

The question becomes if 85mm+ guns get 100% and +30% when you focus fire with Manual Fire Control for AA Guns or if they just get 100%.  All other guns get 30%.

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Just now, LittleWhiteMouse said:

The question becomes if 85mm+ guns get 100% and +30% when you focus fire with Manual Fire Control for AA Guns or if they just get 100%.  All other guns get 30%.

Ah.  I understand now :)  Perhaps with your connections you can find out for us :)  

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Just now, AnimaL21 said:

Ah.  I understand now :)  Perhaps with your connections you can find out for us :)  

I try and make sure I have a huge list of questions before I bug 'em.  They're not always available to answer system questions and WG is rather tight lipped about a lot of the core mechanics.

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41 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

The question becomes if 85mm+ guns get 100% and +30% when you focus fire with Manual Fire Control for AA Guns or if they just get 100%.  All other guns get 30%.

 

Don't forget that it's possible the +100% is actually a x2 multiplier (effectively changing it to 160%).  

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14 hours ago, Soshi_Sone said:

Do they multiply?:  Base X 6

Or are they additive?: Base X 4

 

Yeah, after almost 7000 games...I don't know the answer.  Never had to think about it, but I'm looking at some options.

 

 

The way I've understood it to be so far is that DF is a ship modifier and MFC is a captain modifier.

 

It's like how AFT and the AA range mod give you 7.2km range instead of 7km range.  The AA range mod increases range by 20% to 6km.  AFT increases the ship's AA range by 20%, which is now 6km, resulting in the 7.2km.  DF is a ship modifier like the AA range mod.  So if your AA DPS was 100, then with DF it is 300.  Then MFC will kick in and double it to 600, or as far as I know.  I'm not too sure whether it still counts the 30% bonus damage so instead of the DPS being 600 it would be 780.  Some people say the 100% increase overwrites the 30%, others say that it stacks, but this is what I understand at least.

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3 hours ago, _V12 said:

 

Don't forget that it's possible the +100% is actually a x2 multiplier (effectively changing it to 160%).  

That's why I said it was multiplicative.

If you had 200dps on a large caliber guns and ALL of the bonuses on a tier 9+ cruiser, the math would work out to:

  • 200dps * 1.1 * 1.2 * 1.25 * 1.3 *2.0 *3.0
  • 2,574dps

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9 hours ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

That's why I said it was multiplicative.

If you had 200dps on a large caliber guns and ALL of the bonuses on a tier 9+ cruiser, the math would work out to:

  • 200dps * 1.1 * 1.2 * 1.25 * 1.3 *2.0 *3.0
  • 2,574dps

 

This is why we say AA is OP.

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36 minutes ago, _V12 said:

 

This is why we say AA is OP.

for the first part of the game, sure, after a few hits from He slinging ships, you will lose a fair amount of AA.   if you happen to take a few HE shells from brit BBs, you will lose a crap ton of AA quickly.  I have actually intentionally targeted high AA ships that i saw my CV going for with my brit BBs just to knock out their AA, plus force DC.(only tier 5 RN BB currently)

 

AA spec is something i always wanted to try, just to get some enjoyment from shooting down a CVs strike.  Problem is CVs are rarer in higher tiers, so all those points lose their purpose if their isn't a cv and the issue i pointed out above.  You wont be knocking many planes out of the sky when your AA is nearly gone from a few HE shells.  Not to mention the fact that the CV has to attack you or fly near you.  Of course, if you div with a CV, then your AA build will matter a lot more.(i dont div that often)  Other builds are just better because they matter every match. 

 

I will say though, it is suprising how many CVs fly planes near my DM just so i can shoot them down, even without DF up.  Some even try to strike me. 

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You'll never be losing many large mounts, which the lion's share of the AA DPS comes from on most ships.

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