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dseehafer

A case for the Addition of the Schleswig Holstein to the game

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Greetings all,

 

 

    Let me just begin by saying this: Mikasa, the only pre-dred in-game so far, was a complete failure. This is not because she is a pre-dred and is therefore incapable of performing well, rather because she was balanced poorly. There are a number of things that could have been done to make Mikasa competitive, not least among them would be to decrease her insanely massive and unnecessary dispersion. Here's my point, other historic pre-dreds should not have to be excluded from the game simply because Mikasa was a balance failure. The problem does not lie with the type of ship. Pre-dreadnoughts can be balanced and can work in game at tier 2, Mikasa was not and that's unfortunate but it does not have to doom the future addition of other pre-dreadnoughts. 

 

   If only 1 other pre-dred ever gets added to the game it should without a doubt be the Schleswig Holstein. Perhaps the most famous pre-dreadnought in history she, among other things, participated in The Battle of Jutland (the largest naval battle in modern times) and also fired the opening shots of WWII.

 

Now, concerning balance, how could she be competitive in-game? The biggest mistake would be to try to balance her against Mikasa as she'd end up another failure because Mikasa set the bar so low. If WG wants to make good money on S-H they need to make her competitive. Yes, I mean she needs to be good enough so as to make Mikasa irrelevant (while still maintaining balance with the rest of the tier 2 cruisers and destroyers, of course). Mikasa's balancing was a mistake, and that's unfortunate, but other pre-dreds should not have to suffer because of it. Besides, for most, Mikasa was free anyways.

 

I would lobby that Schleswig-Holstein be implemented in-game as she appeared in 1934 as this was her most powerful state. After 1935 S-H was removed from front-line service due to the arrival of the Deutschland and partially disarmed and relegated to mostly training duties.

 

Perhaps the biggest argument in favor of a 1934 S-H is the fact that, at this time (1924-1935) she had above water torpedo tubes. Yes, you heard that correctly. In 1924 the 15cm guns in the foremost and aftmost hull casemate turrets were removed and replaced by single 55cm torpedo tubes. The train of these mounts would be remarkable in-game as they would be able to fire almost directly ahead and directly behind, meaning that they wouldnt require any fancy and dangerous maneuvering in order to bring them to bear on a target like some torpedo-laden battleships in-game. Probably these would be like the torpedoes on the low-tier German destroyers, extremely slow but with a very quick reload.

 

 

The torpedo casemate turrets on S-H...

 

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Stats

 

Main Battery - 2x2 283mm (2rpm)

 

Secondary Battery - 12x1 149mm (6 per broadside), 4x1 88mm (2 per broadside)

 

AA Battery - 4x1 88mm

 

Torpedo Battery - 4x1 550mm

 

Top Speed - 19kn

 

Armor - 240mm belt, 67-97mm turtleback, 40mm deck, 280mm turret faces, 100mm bow and stern belts, 35mm casemate armor, 170mm transverse bulkheads

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Sorry, but this would mean that she has more single-mounts than the current destroyer with single mounts.

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Just now, Carrier_Lexington said:

Sorry, but this would mean that she has more single-mounts than the current destroyer with single mounts.

 

The low tier German destroyers also have single mounts...

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Just now, dseehafer said:

 

The low tier German destroyers also have single mounts...

They also have double mounts.
But there is a certain destroyer only armed with single mount torpedo tubes, and that's Smith. To balance her weak torpedo armament, she gets an 11 second reload on those torps.

  The German Pre dred would have to get a much longer reload time.

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Remember that IRL ships such as the Mikasa usually fought at ridiculously close ranges - and the lighter guns were often considered the fighting armament, with the heavies for finishers when the enemy ship was crippled. Part of the reason she is and remains unbalanced is that she is the only pre-dreadnought battleship. If others appeared in the game, WG would have incentive to buff her.

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1 minute ago, Carrier_Lexington said:

They also have double mounts.
But there is a certain destroyer only armed with single mount torpedo tubes, and that's Smith. To balance her weak torpedo armament, she gets an 11 second reload on those torps.

  The German Pre dred would have to get a much longer reload time.

1

 

Right, it would most likey be the 38 second reload of the other German 55cm torpedo tubes in game.

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Just now, dseehafer said:

 

Right, it would most likey be the 38 second reload of the other German 55cm torpedo tubes in game.

Much more fair, then.

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Normally I'd agree but I hold personal prejudice against that ship so I'd have to oppose.

Also, the ship uses 11" guns which work at tier 3 but down here it will only have 4 guns. 

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Sure, just as long as I get my beloved Connecticut class ingame as well. I feel like all of the final generation of pre-dreadnoughts could easily be fit into tier 2.

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6 minutes ago, Big_Spud said:

Sure, just as long as I get my beloved Connecticut class ingame as well.

 

A Semi-Dreadnought, eh? That could be interesting. To that, I say, if Connecticut, than Radetzky as well. :Smile-_tongue:

 

Screw it, just give us all the ships! :Smile_izmena:

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I'd love more low tier battleships. They'd be fun to play with.

 

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10 minutes ago, Edselman said:

Normally I'd agree but I hold personal prejudice against that ship so I'd have to oppose.

Also, the ship uses 11" guns which work at tier 3 but down here it will only have 4 guns. 

 

Mikasa only has 12" guns, and she lacks S-H's torpedoes. 4 guns is the norm for pretty much all pre-dreds. I don't know why that's an issue.

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10 minutes ago, Edselman said:

Normally I'd agree but I hold personal prejudice against that ship so I'd have to oppose.

Also, the ship uses 11" guns which work at tier 3 but down here it will only have 4 guns. 

Don't know what prejudice you'd have against a hunk of metal, but alright.

 

As for the guns, she'd be fine, they'd have accuracy over Mikasa (which, if they added more pre-dreads, needs a look over for buffs.) Where as Mikasa maintains her formidable secondary battery.

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2 minutes ago, crzyhawk said:

no pre-dreads, tks.

 

Image result for wai meme

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There also the pre Dreadnaughts USS Mississippi and USS Idaho that were sold to the Greek navy.  They served with distinction too.

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For all he faults, I still enjoy taking my Mikasa in to coop games to make a little extra cash and free xp. Watching her sink two or three bots with close-range secondary fire is a hoot! I understand it's not something everyone wants to see, but I would welcome more pre-dreadnoughts in the game.

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3 minutes ago, Doomlock said:

Don't know what prejudice you'd have against a hunk of metal, but alright.

 

 

 

He's probably Polish. 

 

 

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I would love more pre dreds. I love their looks, far more interesting then the more modern BB's. 

 

But only if they buff Mikasa as well. She's the most famous one after all. 

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3 minutes ago, AquaSquirrel said:

I would love more pre dreds. I love their looks, far more interesting then the more modern BB's. 

 

But only if they buff Mikasa as well. She's the most famous one after all. 

 

Schleswig-Holstein is probably more famous than Mikasa. You really have to be into warships to know about Mikasa, and to know that she still exists. She isn't very well knows to the general public. On the other hand, it is nearly impossible to find a book about WWII that does not mention or picture Schleswig Holstein. Heck grade-school History books talk about how WWII was started when the Germans began the invasion of Poland with bombardment from the Schleswig-Holstein.

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Just now, dseehafer said:

 

Schleswig-Holstein is probably more famous than Mikasa. You really have to be into warships to know about Mikasa, and to know that she still exists. She isn't very well knows to the general public. On the other hand, it is nearly impossible to find a book about WWII that does not mention or picture Schleswig Holstein. Heck grade-school History books talk about how WWII was started when the Germans began the invasion of Poland with bombardment from the Schleswig-Holstein.

I'm mainly just trying to mess with you. :Smile-_tongue:

Though I personally knew about Mikasa long before I knew of S-H. I think I happened upon her exsistance reading about the Russo Japanese War.  

My history books in VA and NC never Mentions S-H. 

 

 

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I'd say USS Maine is the most famous, in America at least. Most Americans have never heard of Schleswig-Holstein.

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1 minute ago, AquaSquirrel said:

I'm mainly just trying to mess with you. :Smile-_tongue:

Though I personally knew about Mikasa long before I knew of S-H. I think I happened upon her exsistance reading about the Russo Japanese War.  

My history books in VA and NC never Mentions S-H. 

 

 

 

I still have my 5th-grade history book (long story) and it has a picture of S-H bombarding Poland in the WWII section. I don't think it mentions her by name, though, I think it just says something like "A German battleships fires upon Polish soldiers" or something like that.... I'm scrounging around trying to find it now....

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