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AlcatrazNC

Change spawn location for slow BB

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I just had a game with a Colorado who spawned at the far east . This Colorado was really close to C but since no friendly ship except him was near C we decided on a A-B strat.  This Colorado tried to catch up the fleet but because of his speed, he ended up being HE spam by all other ennemi ship without being able to do something in the game. We managed to win this but i kinda feel bad for the Colo.

 

I heard spawn has been improved but to me I really think slow BB should have a priority on central spawn in the fleet. Queen Elizabeth, New Mexico, New York... all these slow BB should not spawn in a place that is way too far away from the main fleet. I don't mind spawning at the far east and travel to the west with a Bismarck or a KGV, i have the speed for, but a Colorado or a New Mex doesn't and if they are not lucky and the ennemi team decide to push on their side, they will have no way to escape and try something in the game. 

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i suggest BBs should be spawned inside 3 caps. Both allied and enemy BBs. So that they could at least try to neutralize each other and being torped/focus fired to death in 1st 5 min so that they don't have to race towards the border after game starts.

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1 minute ago, zuga_01 said:

i suggest BBs should be spawned inside 3 caps. Both allied and enemy BBs. So that they could at least try to neutralize each other and being torped/focus fired to death in 1st 5 min so that they don't have to race towards the border after game starts.

 

This is what happened to me during the last T6 ranked. For some reason my Fusou spawned right at the epicenter then i detected all the ennemi...and i sunk 5 min after.

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40 minutes ago, AlcatrazNC said:

 

This is what happened to me during the last T6 ranked. For some reason my Fusou spawned right at the epicenter then i detected all the ennemi...and i sunk 5 min after.

 

I heard about the spawn bug in ranked but never witnessed it myself... I bet that was a surprise for everyone involved lol

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56 minutes ago, AlcatrazNC said:

I just had a game with a Colorado who spawned at the far east . This Colorado was really close to C but since no friendly ship except him was near C we decided on a A-B strat.  This Colorado tried to catch up the fleet but because of his speed, he ended up being HE spam by all other ennemi ship without being able to do something in the game. We managed to win this but i kinda feel bad for the Colo.

When that happens to me I tell the team I'm delaying at C because I will never catch them at A-B. It is risky, I do know I will probably sink, but the goal is to delay, last as long as possible, and move the enemy towards the edge of the map away from A-B.  It seems like a terrible choice, but in most cases it actually helps the team. If it works, I've taken 4+ enemy ships out of the battle, especially if they chase me to the edge and corner.  Best case, no one goes to that cap and I end up capping it and coming around in a pincer movement (which has happened).

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This happens to me far too often in slow BBs, or even in faster BBs. Spawn way off on one flank all alone, and then the whole team lemmings to the other flank. You can either try to follow them and arrive late to the action, or try and go solo and end up focussed down unless every enemy player lemmings to that same flank too (which /has/ happened to me before... solo cap for the lulz). 

Isn't typical fleet formation capital ships like CVs and BBs in the middle and the CA and DD screen around them? 

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It is a fair point, honestly it would make sense if spawn point selection was based upon each individual ship's top speed in relation to the other ships of their team.

Edited by SyndicatedINC

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1 hour ago, Wowzery said:

When that happens to me I tell the team I'm delaying at C because I will never catch them at A-B. It is risky, I do know I will probably sink, but the goal is to delay, last as long as possible, and move the enemy towards the edge of the map away from A-B.  It seems like a terrible choice, but in most cases it actually helps the team. If it works, I've taken 4+ enemy ships out of the battle, especially if they chase me to the edge and corner.  Best case, no one goes to that cap and I end up capping it and coming around in a pincer movement (which has happened).

 

@Wowzery is right. In particular, Colorado is an awful ship (IMHO it should be a tier VI). It's slow speed is its most objectionable characteristic leaving it with no utility in battle. Delaying the cap is the most effective way for Colorado to help the team. Were it me, I would load HE and advance on the outermost edge of the C cap. Should I take out a DD before being burned to death, it is a good trade.

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23 minutes ago, SyndicatedINC said:

It is a fair point, honestly it would make sense if spawn point selection was based upon each individual ship's top speed in relation to the other ships of their team.

In addition, it might help to spawn DDs farthest to the back, and BBs farthest forward, to help teams arrive at caps at more similar times. 

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8 minutes ago, _Big_Lou_ said:

 

@Wowzery is right. In particular, Colorado is an awful ship (IMHO it should be a tier VI). It's slow speed is its most objectionable characteristic leaving it with no utility in battle. Delaying the cap is the most effective way for Colorado to help the team. Were it me, I would load HE and advance on the outermost edge of the C cap. Should I take out a DD before being burned to death, it is a good trade.

Colorado has a very high skill floor, and very high skill ceiling. It has great guns, is agile for a BB, and can angle versus anything, but you really need to know your stuff to make it work. 

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I might agree on changing, but regardless BB should have retired to the middle angling backwards. I know the BB is out of the fight for a bit, but it is better than losing the hull.

Why I say this is

AS a Captain it is your first duty is to the safety of your ship-period.

So BB moves over stops the kill,

Next let me remind all players, stop trying to win in 5 minutes, be patient the game can be 20 minutes if needed.

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3 hours ago, AlcatrazNC said:

I just had a game with a Colorado who spawned at the far east . This Colorado was really close to C but since no friendly ship except him was near C we decided on a A-B strat.  

 

It would be easier to do if they just altered the spawns so that BBs didn't spawn alone.

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2 hours ago, StingRayOne said:

I might agree on changing, but regardless BB should have retired to the middle angling backwards. I know the BB is out of the fight for a bit, but it is better than losing the hull.

Why I say this is

AS a Captain it is your first duty is to the safety of your ship-period.

So BB moves over stops the kill,

Next let me remind all players, stop trying to win in 5 minutes, be patient the game can be 20 minutes if needed.

 

@StingRayOne I disagree with these statements in principle. Saving your ship is a (one) priority among many. Having a "first duty" to saving your ship is, I'm sure, a path to losses. The first duty of a captain (in WoWs) is to secure victory for your team. Consider this analogy to another strategically minded game, chess:

 

The most brilliant chess masters focus on playing to win and not playing for a stalemate. Playing for a stalemate is often a path to a loss, the play is simply unbalanced towards defense. The best chess masters find ways to "trade" pieces for a net gain. Trading 2 pawns for the enemy knight. Trading a rook to take an enemy queen. While all of these trades mean losing a piece, they all come with significant advantages.

 

WoWs is not about surviving, it is about capturing the objective(s). If it is possible to trade your ship in order to sink a priority enemy target, bait the enemy into chasing themselves out of position, or simply swap a low tier ship for sinking a high tier ship.... you do it. Imagine a tier VII match where a tier V DD sacrifices themselves to take out a tier VII Belfast. This player has just traded a low tier DD for a smoking, radar throwing, monster. Well done DD captain, you traded your ship for a significant advantage for your team. Taking the opportunity to spend your HP pool, seize opportunities, and take calculated risks is how matches are won and lost. Therefore, a WoWs Captain's first duty is to find a way for their team to win, sometimes this means sacrifice.

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Slow BB + bad spawn point + map with big islands = a very dull game with nothing to shoot at. Happens way to often. 

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2 hours ago, _Big_Lou_ said:


@StingRayOne I disagree with these statements in principle. Saving your ship is a (one) priority among many. Having a "first duty" to saving your ship is, I'm sure, a path to losses. The first duty of a captain (in WoWs) is to secure victory for your team. 

 

To be fair, in the case of a Colorado, it might not be a bad idea. If it can't get close enough to fire effectively, then preventing the enemy from getting the points from killing it might be the best bet.

 

In fact, that goes for low-HP ships too. If it's a close game, such a ship might serve the team better by running and hiding, rather than getting in a salvo or two before giving points to the enemy.

Edited by Skpstr

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2 hours ago, Skpstr said:

 

To be fair, in the case of a Colorado, it might not be a bad idea. If it can't get close enough to fire effectively, then preventing the enemy from getting the points from killing it might be the best bet.

 

In fact, that goes for low-HP ships too. If it's a close game, such a ship might serve the team better by running and hiding, rather than getting in a salvo or two before giving points to the enemy.

 

I think the previous thoughts were focused on "what to do at the start of the game" and not the endgame. Letting your guns go silent and allowing concealment mechanics to kick in is a good way to secure a victory (presuming you have the right points conditions). I'm not sure I agree that a run and hide tactic from go helps much. At a minimum, a Colorado running and hiding from the start is having no influence on a match till the 14 minute mark (maybe later), if at all. In the time it takes for Colorado to reposition itself into a comfortable spot, their team has been fighting a 11v12 fight for a while and is likely down (point lead or ship advantage). 

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First you have to reconcile yourself to the fact that WG doesn't give a Flying Fig that the US Standards have been power creeped (crept?) to the point of near obsolescence. 

 

So given that, and given that I still enjoy playing US Standards, when I get a bad spawn like that (about 33% of the time) I head for the middle of the map.  You are now, by necessity, a late game ship.  Once you accept this role you need to be in the middle of the map so you can get to where the battle is in the last 7-10 minutes.  Don't chase the early stages, position yourself for the mid to end game.  That way you will be at full health with lots of heals and the surviving Reds will have had the corners knocked off them.

 

Unless, of course, you get spotted in transit by a Red CV in which case you are screwed (unless you are in a Texas tricked out for AA).

Edited by JCC45

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Solution: Play something faster.

 

Expected retort: "I have to grind the slow battleships to get the fast ones, moron!"

 

Response: Play something other than battleships.

Edited by AraAragami

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7 hours ago, inktomi19d said:

In addition, it might help to spawn DDs farthest to the back, and BBs farthest forward, to help teams arrive at caps at more similar times. 

I've thought this so many times for battles up to and including tier 7, maybe tier 8.  Above that the BB's are fast enough to keep up with the rest.

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23 hours ago, Wowzery said:

When that happens to me I tell the team I'm delaying at C because I will never catch them at A-B. It is risky, I do know I will probably sink, but the goal is to delay, last as long as possible, and move the enemy towards the edge of the map away from A-B.  It seems like a terrible choice, but in most cases it actually helps the team. If it works, I've taken 4+ enemy ships out of the battle, especially if they chase me to the edge and corner.  Best case, no one goes to that cap and I end up capping it and coming around in a pincer movement (which has happened).

 

That's what i would do, but usually DD will push the cap and if you happen to be close, you'll get detected and if some ship already found position and shoot over the island, you will receive some damage without actually delaying the potential treat coming to the point. The best scenario would be if they are bait and chase you toward the edge. Otherwise you will most of the time end up killed without contributing to the team even though you did nothing wrong but spawn at the bad position.

 

21 hours ago, inktomi19d said:

In addition, it might help to spawn DDs farthest to the back, and BBs farthest forward, to help teams arrive at caps at more similar times. 

 

Actually i think this idea is bad. One of DD's job is to spot (especially these time when there are no CV). Putting DD are the farthest back would prevent early spotting since you would arrive at the same time. And BB can just slow down, let you take the first line and camp at the back in worst case.

On the other hand, if all ship arrive at cap at the same time, it can prevent any kind of running away play since you would be focused as you try to turn away. And once again, the BB could just slow down or even move backward. I don't think this method is good one, but if it work as intended it could reduce all these passive play.

 

 

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To Big Lou, I assume attempting a victory is a given,and it did not need to be said.

But if you sail off with no excuse , your no help at all.

No ship in my world , no victory

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2 hours ago, AlcatrazNC said:

 

 

 

 

Actually i think this idea is bad. One of DD's job is to spot (especially these time when there are no CV). Putting DD are the farthest back would prevent early spotting since you would arrive at the same time. And BB can just slow down, let you take the first line and camp at the back in worst case.

On the other hand, if all ship arrive at cap at the same time, it can prevent any kind of running away play since you would be focused as you try to turn away. And once again, the BB could just slow down or even move backward. I don't think this method is good one, but if it work as intended it could reduce all these passive play.

 

 

If DDs were started behind the BBs they would still get out in front, just not by nearly so much. On most maps, BBs can’t cover the caps at all before the first DD gets sunk, unless the BB got lucky and spawned where they have a direct line of sight into the cap.

 

I can’t count how many matches I’ve been in where some yolo started whining about the BBs hanging back or hiding when the BBs were driving forward at full speed the entire time. 

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