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jrchappe

IFHE for Friedrich and/or GK

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Hello everyone, I saw a video awhile back praising IFHE on the top tier German battleships because of their large caliber secondaries, so I trained it on my FDG captain.  But now I'm wondering if it's really worth it or not.  Would I be better served loading up on more level 3 slots like demo expert, superintendent, etc?  I do NOT run manual secondaries because I want to be able to fire out of both sides of the ship.

 

Many thanks!

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It does nothing for you on the FDG.

It only helps (in certain limited situations) with the Gneisanau's and GK's 128's.

I dont bother with it on my GK even with a full secondary build. I definitely wouldn't bother with it if you're not even running a secondary build.

 

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1 minute ago, _Luna said:

It does nothing for you on the FDG.

It only helps (in certain limited situations) with the Gneisanau's and GK's 128's.

I dont bother with it on my GK even with a full secondary build. I definitely wouldn't bother with it if you're not even running a secondary build.

 

Actually, it allows your 105s to penetrate DD plating, and your 150s to penetrate BB bow/stern/casemate plating. 

 

On GK, it allows your 128s to pen cruiser plating and does the same thing to your 150s as it did for the Bis/Freddy... But you have one less 150 turret per side. 

 

Its effect is marginal at best, and honestly I'd go with (on an 18/19pt captain) manual AA or CE on top of AFT/MS. Both give you a more well rounded ship. 

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IFHE does this:

For the 105mm, increases penetration from 17mm to 26mm.

For 128mm, the increase is from 21mm to 32mm.

For the 150mm, increase penetration from 25mm to 37.5mm

Now, since the very large majority of 2ndary hits will be straight on, rather than plunging fire, there's very little chance that it will impact Deck armor, so we can effectively ignore that. It's only side hull armor and superstructure that matters. Turret are far too heavily armored, and the main belt is too.

Upper tier DDs (T8+) tend to have about 19mm armor all around the hull. So, IFHE will increase the amount of 105mm pens, but not 128 or 150mm ones. They have under 17mm on the superstructure, so there's no benefit there for IFHE.

Similarly, BBs tend to have 19mm superstructure armor, so only the 105mm gets a pen boost there. In addition, most BBs have 30-32mm of armor on their bow/stern, so IFHE will help the 128 and 150mm pen there.

Against cruisers, there's a lot of 27mm plating, so the 128 and 150mm will benefit from the IFHE bump. The 105mm won't, though, as the superstructure is again already sub-17mm.

 

Overall, though, I'd be surprised if you saw any more than a 15% increase in pen rate against all targets.

 

For 4 points, there are massively better things to invest in. Certainly, you'd want AFT and BFT long before IFHE, as those two significantly increase the range and DPM of your secondaries. Same goes for DE - the significant increase in fire change from DE almost certainly would be better than IFHE, as DE applies no matter where the round hits, and it's a non-trivial increase for fire (between a 20 and 40% increase in the per-shot chance for fire).

 

I'd only ever consider IFHE as the last 4 points on a 19-point captain. On a BB, the first 10 points go to PM, EM or AR (depending on your preference), BFT, AFT.  That leaves you with 9 points left.  Problem is, there are a lot of very desireable skills left:  AR or EM (whichever they didn't have) for 2, BoS, SI, VI as 3 pointers (and maybe even DE), and MFCAA/MFCSA for 4. That's up to 20 other points of worthy skills competing with your 4 point IFHE for those remaining 9 points total.

Yeah, I can't really ever see IFHE worth the points.

Edited by EAnybody

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Personally, I'd say that secondary build is rather lackluster on GK even if you push hard like I normally do. With lower tier German BBs your main battery damage is relatively low compared to your competition and secondaries make up (and more) for the difference. With GK, though, you have 12 massive guns that are fairly accurate (compared to FDG) and you deal huge damage with the main battery alone. I haven't seen any reasonable improvement from using secondary build. It's better to spec GK for what she's best at - being a tank and damage sponge. 

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I love IFHE Manual Secondary Build + Adrenaline Rush: (But you need your Capt. trained up all the way to 19 or near 19)

Everyone will have an opinion, I like the post above that gives actual numbers; again, try it and see if you like it - free redistribution this weekend, so...

 

 

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On 10/12/2017 at 8:40 PM, geser98 said:

Personally, I'd say that secondary build is rather lackluster on GK even if you push hard like I normally do. With lower tier German BBs your main battery damage is relatively low compared to your competition and secondaries make up (and more) for the difference. With GK, though, you have 12 massive guns that are fairly accurate (compared to FDG) and you deal huge damage with the main battery alone. I haven't seen any reasonable improvement from using secondary build. It's better to spec GK for what she's best at - being a tank and damage sponge. 

I cant disagree more. To each their own of course though. Secondary build GK is the most fun I have in the game. You get 11.6km range with reasonable accuracy, very accurate under 10km, and slaughtering 2 ships at once while pushing for the team. SuperIntendant for the extra repair of course, and good Repair Party/Dmage Control useage with overlap makes all the survival skills less critical, for me anyway.

Love the GK Secondary build.

 I used IFHE on it once and charted average damage per game and it makes a difference. If it was 3 points it would be 100% worth it. At 4 points its something I just do from time to time for fun. Slaughters cruisers and DDs while I have main guns on a BB or another CA.

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On 12/16/2017 at 1:34 AM, Focke66 said:

I cant disagree more. To each their own of course though. Secondary build GK is the most fun I have in the game. You get 11.6km range with reasonable accuracy, very accurate under 10km, and slaughtering 2 ships at once while pushing for the team. SuperIntendant for the extra repair of course, and good Repair Party/Dmage Control useage with overlap makes all the survival skills less critical, for me anyway.

Love the GK Secondary build.

 I used IFHE on it once and charted average damage per game and it makes a difference. If it was 3 points it would be 100% worth it. At 4 points its something I just do from time to time for fun. Slaughters cruisers and DDs while I have main guns on a BB or another CA.

Not arguing about fun. It's certainly more fun with a secondary build, no questions about that. Just watching your secondary batteries going like it's the 4th of July is a treat in on itself.

It's just that this build, while fun, is occasionally useful, but tank build is useful in almost any situation.

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On 10/11/2017 at 3:34 AM, EAnybody said:

IFHE does this:

For the 105mm, increases penetration from 17mm to 26mm.

For 128mm, the increase is from 21mm to 32mm.

For the 150mm, increase penetration from 25mm to 37.5mm

Last I checked the German BBs follow the 1/4 HE pen rule. I am also fairly certain that this counts for the secondaries. 

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20 hours ago, Nimitz_1701 said:

Last I checked the German BBs follow the 1/4 HE pen rule. I am also fairly certain that this counts for the secondaries. 

I really don't think so Ive had 100+ hit games with my Bismarck and done only 2k damage with secondaries so I don't think they pen for crap.  The only time I actually do notice them be effective is against dd's and Broadside Brit cruisers, both of which I don't want to actually be that close to in the first place.

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