commodore_torakula

Who's with me and wants night battles?

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Do you want night battles?   121 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you want night battles?

    • Yes
      97
    • No
      24

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92 posts in this topic

NIGHT BATTLES NIGHT BATTLES

Don't care about the decrease in vision.. I just want to be shot at in the fog ships and see them spectacular in the night.


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On 09.10.2017 at 2:29 PM, commodore_torakula said:

Some of the best, most interesting surface ship actions in WW2 were fought at night. ..(principally around Guadalcanal in late '42)...I've seen other players agree with me that it'd be a fun mode to have here... ...I know it would require some doing on the devs part, but it seems very workable. ....we have radar...why not just add searchlights and throw down?

 

I promise not to be crestfallen if everybody votes No, but I must know if there's a groundswell of opinion on my side....

 

....I await your replies eageraly, and thx.

man , I do not see any problem , you raised the topic .... There is a special mod that enables night battles .....


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I think night battles would actually be really fun for PvE operations. 


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The other experts at night battles are the Royal Navy.

In early years, before surface radars were widely available, RN used lookouts and spotlights to defeat the Regia Maria on numerous occasions.
After Radar was widely equipped on RN ships, the Royal Navy absolutely decimated the Regia Maria in night battles.

Later in WW2, USN developed radar that fitted on carrier aircraft and could rule the skies and seas, at night time, so this could be a feature too.

Edited by MrDeaf

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1 hour ago, MrDeaf said:

USN developed radar that fitted on carrier aircraft

Sounds like a primitive E-2 Hawkeye


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50 minutes ago, Chobittsu said:

Sounds like a primitive E-2 Hawkeye

small list of WW2 era carrier based aircraft with night capabilities

  • Fairey Fulmar NF Mk.II
  • Fairey Firefly NF.Mk I, II, 5
  • Grumman TBF-1D, -1CD (T7)
  • Curtiss SB2C-3E, -4E (T8)
  • Grumman F6F-3E, -3E (T7)

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17 hours ago, MrDeaf said:

Suggestion for night battle 'trial': Tokyo Express style Operation

  • Full Day-Night cycle
  • Your fleet will consist of only Cruisers, Destroyers and Battleships that can achieve, at least, 30 knots
  • Daytime: Land bombers come to ruin your day while en-route to drop-off point
  • Dusk: PT boats raid your fleet from nearby islands
  • Night: Your fleet reaches drop-off point, but will be interrupted by an enemy fleet consisting of CL, CA and DDs
  • Dawn: As you exit the battlefield, a pair of Submarines will attempt to torp your fleet

 

This was primarily an IJN vs USN thing, but I don't see why other nations can't be used in the player controlled ships.

IJN primarily fielded: Kuma-class, Fubuki-class, Akatsuki-class, Kagero-class, Yugumo-class and Akizuki-class
IJN usually did not field CA or BBs for Tokyo Express runs, but did bring in Kongo-class and their heavy cruisers when attacking

USN primarily fielded: Benson-class, Fletcher-class, Cleveland-class and New Orleans-class
USN usually did no field BBs, but on occasion did use North Carolina-class and South Dakota-class

Fletcher, Sims, Gridley, Benham, Porter, Bagley, Benson, Bristol, Farragut, Mahan, Wickes and Clemson (yes, indeed, as troop transport APDs!) classes all served in the Solomons. We don't lack for DDs for the USN in any case. They have enough DD classes for two complete lines in the game. We need Brooklyn class CLs to add to the Cleveland and Atlanta. For USN CAs the game has all we need. To that add RAN Hobart, Leander, Canberra, and Australia, not all in the game yet (Perth and Leander can serve). RAN DDs? None in game yet and all RN types, V&W and Scott classes from WW I, and RN 'N' class war transfers. An RN Tribal would be nice (hint, hint). The IJN has everything it needs already. Other nations? Why not? After all the RN the RM and the DKM duked it out at night many times in the Med and the Arctic, plus the RN got in a few good night licks against the IJN late in the war. Anything is possible with a bit of imagination!


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This is do-able in the game, using the cyclone visibility parameters as a guideline as mentioned elsewhere. Since many DDs and several cruisers have a normal detection range below 8 km, and some DDs below 6km, when camouflaged with a captain with CE, this puts a premium on combat reflexes and situational awareness. Night fights are knife fights, like those in cyclones. No air attacks possible, but spotters allowed to increase detection range. I am thinking all navies here-they all had spotters and the spotter option in place of the fighter should be available for all in-game cruisers and BBs that had the historical capability-take notes WG!. Smoke is useless at night in most cases, except to exit from peril because it kills an already limited visibilty range for both sides. This is a perilous environment for BBs and they would be used with caution, which was the case historically for the USN. The IJN, RN and DKM did it anyway. Big ships hit harder close up, and some missions require their presence. Secondaries build necessary for survival! Scenarios would be the best testing ground for this, using the Solomons, Archipelago, Tears of the Desert, and North and a couple of other maps, suitably modified as a playground. Convoy escort and defence (South Pacific, Med and Arctic), troop reinforcement, supply runs (Tokyo Express, Tobruk), evacuations (I am thinking of Greece, Crete and Guadalcanal here-we have the Operation Dynamo scenario success to build on here), area denial, and shore bombardment missions are possible  and could be a part of a scenario or campaign challenge mix, with suitable prizes as rewards. DDs should shine in this environment, and take note that I an a lousy DD player! My 70-year old brain never stops working!


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No thanks. Cyclones are annoying enough.

 

10 minutes of no one doing anything or everyone else telling you to go run around until you get F-keyed the second you are able to spot something for them. My job, roll , purpose (whatever ) is already thankless enough. 


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On ‎10‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 7:50 PM, GrandAdmiral_2016 said:

Clemson (yes, indeed, as troop transport APDs!)

Just as a personal question, which has nothing to do with the topic at hand (which I agree with and would support), do you happen to know how much of their armament the Clemson APD's retained after their conversions?


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4 hours ago, Umikami said:

Just as a personal question, which has nothing to do with the topic at hand (which I agree with and would support), do you happen to know how much of their armament the Clemson APD's retained after their conversions?

My mistake. read Wickes instead of Clemson. DDs103, 113 to 116, 125, 137, 139, 147, 160, the last three were 3-inch gunned ships. All torpedo tubes removed, and the forward boilers removed, reducing speed to 27 knots. After 1943, all were re-equipped with 3-inch guns (same as the new DEs being built), and received 2 single 40mm Bofors and 5 20mm Oerlikons for light AA. They carried  4 LCP(R) on davits where the torpedo tube were originally positioned.

DDs 121-124 were converted into destroyer minelayers  (DM), landing all torpedo tubes for 80 mines. In 1944 the 4-inch guns were removed and replaced with 3-inch as above, with 4 20mm Oerlikons for light AA.

The Wickes class DDs converted were into destroyer minesweepers (DMS-à la USS Caine in the fictional novel The Caine Mutiny by Herman Wouk) were DDs 117, 119, 136, 141, 146, 161, 178, 179, and 180, losing their 4-inch guns for 3-inch and equipped with 3 to 5 20mm Oerlikons for light AA.

Nine Clemsons were converted into seaplane tenders (AVD), with two boilers removed and 3-inch guns and 20mm Oerlikons prewar. They were converted back into destroyer escorts during the height of the U-boat crisis in early 1943.

Eleven Clemsons were converted to destroyer escorts prewar, with one boiler removed to increase endurance, and the 4-inchers replaced by the 3-inch as noted above. Those converted for escort work after Pearl Harbor retained the 4-inch guns. All escort conversions had six torpedo tubes removed originally, and later all tubes were landed to increase the depth charge load. In some cases two 4-inchers were landed as well. Ship history on many of these ships needs more research, as they held the line until the new DEs and DDs came into service.

Desrons 50, 57 and 59 were all Clemson class ships in Admiral Hart's Asiatic Fleet on December 7, 1941. Joined by Desron 29, 13 ships, all Clemsons in early 1942. They fought in the Dutch East Indies (Java Sea, Balikpapan, and other actions). Think on Tier 3 and Tier 4 DDs fighting T4 to T8 IJN DDs, and CAs. It really happened.

The APDs and AVDs were present at Guadalcanal, operating in support of the 1st Marine Division, for more than three months. These ships did their fair share. Honor the crews.


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23 minutes ago, GrandAdmiral_2016 said:

(DMS-à la USS Caine in the fictional novel The Caine Mutiny by Herman Wouk)

GREAT Movie! Jose Ferrer, when he is giving his little speech at the end, totally verbally takes Fred MacMurray out!

27 minutes ago, GrandAdmiral_2016 said:

My mistake. read Wickes instead of Clemson. DDs103, 113 to 116, 125, 137, 139, 147, 160, the last three were 3-inch gunned ships. All torpedo tubes removed, and the forward boilers removed, reducing speed to 27 knots. After 1943, all were re-equipped with 3-inch guns (same as the new DEs being built), and received 2 single 40mm Bofors and 5 20mm Oerlikons for light AA. They carried  4 LCP(R) on davits where the torpedo tube were originally positioned.

So they sound a lot like the IJN destroyer transports Tanaka used for the Tokyo Express.


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3 minutes ago, Umikami said:

GREAT Movie! Jose Ferrer, when he is giving his little speech at the end, totally verbally takes Fred MacMurray out!

So they sound a lot like the IJN destroyer transports Tanaka used for the Tokyo Express.

Except the IJN had converted only two Minkaze types, Nadakaze and Shimakaze, and they use a lot of regular DDs carrying freight in drums that they floated off as close to the beach as they could get, scraping their keel in some cases. Plus they modifed these older DDs by removing boilers, reducing speed to 20 knots, equipping each vessel with two Daihatsu landing craft, but kept as much armament as they could. Speed is life to a DD, like fighter aircraft. The Mutsukis were widely used as troop transports in the Solomons without special modifications, retaining all their fighting capabilities.

Off topic, I loved José Ferrer as the Padishah Emporer in the original Dune movie  ''Bring in the floating fat man, the Baron!'' Plus I still love to watch his portrayal of Cyrano De Bergerac in the movie of that name, for which he won the Oscar as best actor. The only other version of Cyrano that matches this is the French language production starring Gérard Depardieu as Cyrano made in the late 1980s. As Rostand's orginal play is in French, I studied it in high school as I am fluent in French.


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4 hours ago, Umikami said:

So they sound a lot like the IJN destroyer transports Tanaka used for the Tokyo Express.

I still play a game called "Task Force 1942" on Steam (old game from the 1990's made before Windows) where we fight the battles that happened around Guadalcanal in 1942.  In it, the Japanese player can utilize a "Mutsuki Class Destroyer Transport" that had 2 x 4.7" Dual-purpose guns in 2 single mounts.  They also had 6 torpedo tubes (2 triple rotating mounts).  I believe that's the ship you're referring to, is it not?

The USN side of the game had "Manley Class Destroyer Transports" - which were converted WW1-era "flush deck" destroyers (I guess these were the converted Wickes-class ships the Admiral referred to, above?).  They had 3 x 3", single-mount guns.  No torpedoes.

Just thought I'd bring this up.  I still love to play that game from time-to-time when I get frustrated with RNGesus' affects and I have a really bad day with this game ...


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