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Nagato lives on!

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Kind of hard to look good when you are the target used as the aiming point parked at ground zero in a nuclear bomb test. The wreck is still radioactive at the bottom of the lagoon 71 years later. Saratoga is one of her neighbors.

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Just now, GrandAdmiral_2016 said:

Kind of hard to look good when you are the target used as the aiming point parked at ground zero in a nuclear bomb test. The wreck is still radioactive at the bottom of the lagoon 71 years later. Saratoga is one of her neighbors.

 

I know that much. But this flag return is rather cool I think! A little of something is more heritage then nothing!

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1 minute ago, Iowa_Kai said:

 

I know that much. But this flag return is rather cool I think! A little of something is more heritage then nothing!

Depends on your point of view. I have family members and friends that served who were captured in Hong Kong in 1941. They spent 4 years as POW slave labor and not all of them came home. It is known that one of them was used for bayonet pratice for being ''impolite'' to his jailkeepers while the camp prisoners were watching, including two of his brothers. One of them survived the atomic bombing of Nagasaki. While we can forgive, we do not forget. That is why the only IJN ships that I run are those I get for free. And I don't roll them out very often....

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¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

West or East front most family had something that happened. However I'll tell you what. This an era of peace and I like to see positive facts or events happening. Not being stubborn three or four generations later.

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19 minutes ago, Iowa_Kai said:

Not being stubborn three or four generations later.

ONE generation later, ONE! It's all well and good to play kiss and make up, but this nation engaged in an unannounced attack, without a declaration of war, and killed tens of thousands of US citizens over a 4 year period. BOO HOO their piece of crap BB glows in the dark at the bottom of the ocean. Rest of their fleet should be right beside it.

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16 minutes ago, Umikami said:

ONE generation later, ONE! It's all well and good to play kiss and make up, but this nation engaged in an unannounced attack, without a declaration of war, and killed tens of thousands of US citizens over a 4 year period. BOO HOO their piece of crap BB glows in the dark at the bottom of the ocean. Rest of their fleet should be right beside it.

 

Ah nope unless you are like 60 years old it is indeed a few later. Casualties happened on every side. Sure they were aggressor but resolving to a bomb on innocents doesn't make our side any more white knight.

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I have no sympathy for the Japanese Empire, nor for the Nazis, nor for Stalin for that matter. 

 

But the individual sailors and officers? I don't doubt there were many bad ones, but there are records of several putting thier lives in peril to be kind to enemy prisoners and civilians under fire, just as there were US soldiers in Vietnam who could never have particpated in an event like My Lai. 

 

The war is over. Some of the nastier political legacy of that war is still with us, as was shoved out into the light at Charlottesville. But lets treat this game as a game, and remember that Nagato and Saratoga were machines, and the homes of men, while Indianapolis and Yamato are graveyards. 

 

On a side note, The Japanese and Italians were on the side of the Entente during WWI, do we shun all of their ships in this game or just those that sailed under the banner of treachery and genocide?

 

My thanks (+1) to the OP for food for thought this AM.

 

 

Edited by LancerUlysses
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1 hour ago, Iowa_Kai said:

 

Ah nope unless you are like 60 years old it is indeed a few later. Casualties happened on every side. Sure they were aggressor but resolving to a bomb on innocents doesn't make our side any more white knight.

It was a war, which we ended as soon as possible, using whatever we had available at the time, which makes us, the US, the best group of people in the whole damn world. Their population enabled the war; their population suffered the consequences of starting a war of aggression against a peaceful neighbor. You can take all that "Boo Hoo the poor Japanese" and sink it right in between the USS Missouri and the USS Arizona War Memorial.

And anytime you'd like to voluntarily sign up for fascism there are any number of governments alive in the world today who will be glad to provide you with a first hand example of why you should keep your silly and uninformed rump right here where you get a say in what happens to you.

And, yes, I AM like 60 years old. And, yes, my family DID fight, and die, in the war we won so you can sit on your computer and denigrate the accomplishments of the country they fought to defend.

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6 hours ago, Umikami said:

ONE generation later, ONE! It's all well and good to play kiss and make up, but this nation engaged in an unannounced attack, without a declaration of war, and killed tens of thousands of US citizens over a 4 year period. BOO HOO their piece of crap BB glows in the dark at the bottom of the ocean. Rest of their fleet should be right beside it.

I would like to remind everyone here that the actions of the US in WWII were in no way any better than the Japanese.

 

Or, were YOUR families interned unconstitutionally, illegally, and while having their property taken from them, which was often sold to aid the war effort and never returned, DESPITE having NO PROVABLE LINK to the Japanese Empire?

 

Were YOUR families the ones that immolated in the relentless US firebombing of civilian targets in Japan? Many of those target cities weren't even military. Most were done in a similar vein to how Dresden was bombed by the RAF: Most of the damage centered on the residential areas, very little damaged the industrial sector conveniently located right outside of the city center.

 

And I hardly have to mention the civilians that incinerated during the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and the ones who were unlucky enough to survive with disfiguring radiation burns covering almost their entire bodies.

 

Ha! The Japanese killed, "tens of thousands... over four years." It is estimated that, in the Firebombing of Tokyo alone, over 100,000 lost their lives. That's 100,000 civilians dead in one night!

 

5 hours ago, Umikami said:

And anytime you'd like to voluntarily sign up for fascism there are any number of governments alive in the world today who will be glad to provide you with a first hand example of why you should keep your silly and uninformed rump right here where you get a say in what happens to you.

Really? Sound's like you're the fascist here. You're the one telling everyone that the USA is the best and that that other race over there caused all of our problems.

Sound familiar?

The Young Turk Government saying that the Greeks, Armenians, and Assyrians were traitors and heretics as they systematically slaughtered, [edited], and burned each of these ethic groups.

The Nationalist-Socialists telling the Germans that the Jews were the reason Germany was poor before enacting one of the largest ethnic cleansings of the modern era.

The CCCP telling the Russians that the rich and powerful were the reason that everyone else was poor/dying of starvation, before capturing and slaughtering their oppressors, anyone who fought alongside the monarchy, anyone who was related to anyone who fought alongside the monarch, anyone who might have anything to do with anyone who was related to anyone who fought alongside the monarch...

The Communist Party of China telling the Chinese pretty much exactly the same thing that the CCCP told the Russians, before proceeding to do to the Nationalist Chinese pretty much what the CCCP did to the non-Communist Russians.

Donald Trump telling the American people that Mexicans and Muslims are the reason for America's economic problems. What will he do next? Hopefully, nothing. Realistically? Well, I'll let you read into the patterns however you wish. I know what I get out of those patterns, after all.

 

In fact, much of what you have said has roots in the same principles that Fascism does:

  • Nationalism
  • Militarism 
  • Anti-Democratic Thought
  • Disenfranchisement of others based on Nationality

 


My question to you now is how much more blood has to spill before your quest for vengeance is satisfied? And how does that make you any better than any other radical?

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2 hours ago, Carrier_Lexington said:

I would like to remind everyone here that the actions of the US in WWII were in no way any better than the Japanese.

Other than we didn't start the war with a sneak attack

2 hours ago, Carrier_Lexington said:

were YOUR families interned unconstitutionally, illegally, and while having their property taken from them, which was often sold to aid the war effort and never returned, DESPITE having NO PROVABLE LINK to the Japanese Empire?

no, my family was attacked early one Sunday morning while they were waking up, despite having no provable link to the Japanese Empire

2 hours ago, Carrier_Lexington said:

Were YOUR families the ones that immolated in the relentless US firebombing of civilian targets in Japan?

no, my family was the smart little piggies who built out of bricks

2 hours ago, Carrier_Lexington said:

Many of those target cities weren't even military. Most were done in a similar vein to how Dresden was bombed by the RAF: Most of the damage centered on the residential areas, very little damaged the industrial sector conveniently located right outside of the city center.

Gee Wiz! If the Germans hadn't started that with London and the Japanese with Manila I would feel bad, but they did start it so I don't freakin' care because what goes around comes around.

2 hours ago, Carrier_Lexington said:

And I hardly have to mention the civilians that incinerated during the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and the ones who were unlucky enough to survive with disfiguring radiation burns covering almost their entire bodies.

That is why they call it WAR, or would you like some photos of the burn victims from Pearl Harbor, or the USN drowning victims from sunken ships?

2 hours ago, Carrier_Lexington said:

Ha! The Japanese killed, "tens of thousands... over four years." It is estimated that, in the Firebombing of Tokyo alone, over 100,000 lost their lives. That's 100,000 civilians dead in one night!

GOOD! Because 50 years from now, when some new Japanese warlord decides to make war on the US of A, every old geezer in Hiroshima and Nagasaki can rise up and beat him to death with their canes while they tell anyone who will listen that it is safer to eat white arsenic than it is to screw with America!

2 hours ago, Carrier_Lexington said:

 


My question to you now is how much more blood has to spill before your quest for vengeance is satisfied?

Until no one can ever forget what we did to those who attacked us without warning. And before you ask, I wouldn't care if it took all of them.

Take your revisionist history and your bleeding heart liberalism and go vote in China.

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14 minutes ago, Umikami said:

Until no one can ever forget what we did to those who attacked us without warning. And before you ask, I wouldn't care if it took all of them.

Take your revisionist history and your bleeding heart liberalism and go vote in China.

Well, then you're a sadistic psychopath.

 

Anyway, it seems you're the revisionist here. I highly doubt your family was actually at Pearl. Even if they were, they signed-up to be part of the military. They signed up for the risk of getting attacked. That's an inherent risk when you join the armed forces. Those 100,000 civilians? They had no idea! Their government was lying to them through the Tokyo Rose, and our attacks on them were just as "out of the blue" to them as theirs were to us. I'm quoting actual events, and accepting responsibility as an American. That makes me a Progressive, not a revisionist.

 

Good Lord, man. It's been more than half a century! DING DONG! REALITY'S HERE! THE WAR IS OVER!

 

Some people are so blinded by hatred that they never learn, however. That's saddening, and it explains a lot about the current state of America that some people just can't let go of their hatred, or see how utterly stupid it is.

Edited by Carrier_Lexington

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10 hours ago, Umikami said:

ONE generation later, ONE! It's all well and good to play kiss and make up, but this nation engaged in an unannounced attack, without a declaration of war, and killed tens of thousands of US citizens over a 4 year period. BOO HOO their piece of crap BB glows in the dark at the bottom of the ocean. Rest of their fleet should be right beside it.

 

8 hours ago, Umikami said:

It was a war, which we ended as soon as possible, using whatever we had available at the time, which makes us, the US, the best group of people in the whole damn world. Their population enabled the war; their population suffered the consequences of starting a war of aggression against a peaceful neighbor. You can take all that "Boo Hoo the poor Japanese" and sink it right in between the USS Missouri and the USS Arizona War Memorial.

And anytime you'd like to voluntarily sign up for fascism there are any number of governments alive in the world today who will be glad to provide you with a first hand example of why you should keep your silly and uninformed rump right here where you get a say in what happens to you.

And, yes, I AM like 60 years old. And, yes, my family DID fight, and die, in the war we won so you can sit on your computer and denigrate the accomplishments of the country they fought to defend.

 

16 minutes ago, Umikami said:

Other than we didn't start the war with a sneak attack

no, my family was attacked early one Sunday morning while they were waking up, despite having no provable link to the Japanese Empire

no, my family was the smart little piggies who built out of bricks

Gee Wiz! If the Germans hadn't started that with London and the Japanese with Manila I would feel bad, but they did start it so I don't freakin' care because what goes around comes around.

That is why they call it WAR, or would you like some photos of the burn victims from Pearl Harbor, or the USN drowning victims from sunken ships?

GOOD! Because 50 years from now, when some new Japanese warlord decides to make war on the US of A, every old geezer in Hiroshima and Nagasaki can rise up and beat him to death with their canes while they tell anyone who will listen that it is safer to eat white arsenic than it is to screw with America!

Until no one can ever forget what we did to those who attacked us without warning. And before you ask, I wouldn't care if it took all of them.

Take your revisionist history and your bleeding heart liberalism and go vote in China.

Untitled-Infographic-35.png

Fun Fact: there WAS a declaration of war, it was late arriving to the US due to problems, maybe if you read up on history for WW2 you'd know that, Welcome to my FVI list

Edited by tcbaker777
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1 minute ago, Carrier_Lexington said:

Those 100,000 civilians? They had no idea! Their government was lying to them through the Tokyo Rose, and our attacks on them were just as "out of the blue" as theirs were to us. I'm quoting actual events, and accepting responsibility as an American.

Those 100,000 civilians that had "no idea" what was going on had been at war, supporting it  through the use of mom and pop home industry, since 1932. So, even with the most liberal viewpoint, people who are contributing to the war effort of their nation are legitimate war targets. And as far as our attacks being "out of the blue", that is what tacticians strive for, AFTER A WAR HAS BEEN DECARED, WHICH OUR SIDE DID.

You whine, snivel, and moan about those poor Japanese civilians who got roached, while you say nothing of their victims in Chine, French Indochina, Manila, Singapore, and every other nation Japan conquered. These people were animals, gathering women up off the streets as prostitutes and beheading anyone who talked back; regardless of what we did to rid the world of them and their diseased regime we were more than justified. And if it took the death of every single person in Japan, perhaps you should ask their victims if this is really the overkill you insist it is.

Botton line, the American forces needed no other reason for what they did than what happened on the morning of December 7, 1941; luckily for us the Japanese gave the world volumes of additional reasons to both hate and exterminate them.

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1 minute ago, tcbaker777 said:

  Fun Fact: there WAS a declaration of war, it was late arriving to the US due to problems 

Specifically, problems with the US's Postal service

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15 minutes ago, Umikami said:

Other than we didn't start the war with a sneak attack.

Declaration of war was sent before the attack. US translators didn't translate the message in time before the attack.

 

That is a common misconception about the Attack on Pearl Harbor is that the Japanese didn't declare war and were committing a surprise attack. The goal was to have the declaration of war delivered with no time to change anything before the attack.

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2 minutes ago, tcbaker777 said:

Fun Fact: there WAS a declaration of war, it was late arriving to the US due to problems 

Fun Fact: If you, as a nation, attack before your declaration of War arrives, it is considered to be a sneak attack and cause for retribution.

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1 minute ago, Umikami said:

Fun Fact: If you, as a nation, attack before your declaration of War arrives, it is considered to be a sneak attack and cause for retribution.

if you really are drinking heavily as your location says, that would explain youre attitude right now better than anything else

Edited by tcbaker777
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1 minute ago, Carrier_Lexington said:

Specifically, problems with the US's Postal service

Are you really this ignorant; you don't even have to read to get this one right, just watch a freakin' movie! The U S Postal service had ZIP to do with Japan's declaration of War arriving late. And your history teacher should be sued.

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Just now, Umikami said:

Are you really this ignorant; you don't even have to read to get this one right, just watch a freakin' movie! The U S Postal service had ZIP to do with Japan's declaration of War arriving late. And your history teacher should be sued.

even if the letter DID arrive on time, it was sent to arrive only a few minutes before the attack, so the outcome would have been the same no matter what

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2 minutes ago, Umikami said:

Fun Fact: If you, as a nation, attack before your declaration of War arrives, it is considered to be a sneak attack and cause for retribution.

The declaration arrived only like an hour late.

 

It was supposed to be read and understood that morning. It was not due to various issues on the US side, not the Japanese side. 

 

You are painting the Japanese as something they were not, in particular the IJN. The commander in chief of the IJN, Yamamoto was a brilliant, and honorable commander. 

 

Most of the evil deeds you are describing was of the IJA, not the IJN. The IJN was far more civilized and honorable. 

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8 minutes ago, Umikami said:

Botton line, the American forces needed no other reason for what they did than what happened on the morning of December 7, 1941; luckily for us the Japanese gave the world volumes of additional reasons to both hate and exterminate them.

You are a sad, sad fascist.

 

8 minutes ago, Umikami said:

You whine, snivel, and moan about those poor Japanese civilians who got roached, while you say nothing of their victims in Chine, French Indochina, Manila, Singapore, and every other nation Japan conquered.

All I said was that the US was just-as-much responsible for the commission of atrocities during the Second World War as the Japanese. I know that people died in China. But I also know that the average Japanese civilian knew nothing of that, and most still know nothing.

 

8 minutes ago, Umikami said:

These people were animals, gathering women up off the streets as prostitutes and beheading anyone who talked back; regardless of what we did to rid the world of them and their diseased regime we were more than justified.

Wow, you really are genocidal. Got some repressed homicidal tendencies there? You sound like Charles Manson. Anyone who isn't an American is obviously just an "animal."

 

   "Be angry and do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger..." Ephesians 4:26

 

8 minutes ago, Umikami said:

And if it took the death of every single person in Japan, perhaps you should ask their victims if this is really the overkill you insist it is.

I honestly don't care about satisfying people's thirst for vengeance. That's not justice, that's wholesale slaughter. To try to justify that is a sign of psychopathy.

Get medicated. Get help. You are obviously not of sound mind and body.

Edited by Carrier_Lexington

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Just now, tcbaker777 said:

even if the letter DID arrive on time, it was sent to arrive only a few minutes before the attack, so the outcome would have been the same no matter what

OMG you're a moron; diplomatic communications are handled via cable and there never was any letter as the declaration was delivered by hand from the Japanese ambassador to the Secretary of State, after he personally decoded the cable transmission. Go read a damn book.

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4 minutes ago, Umikami said:

OMG you're a moron; diplomatic communications are handled via cable and there never was any letter as the declaration was delivered by hand from the Japanese ambassador to the Secretary of State, after he personally decoded the cable transmission. Go read a damn book.

using insults now? looks like youve hit the end of the road in this argument, im done with you

Edited by tcbaker777

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Jesus Christ, i can't believe this, this has become so toxic and insulting I have to actually break my promise, @Umikami you are entitled to your opinions but there is no need to derail this topic like you are, both sides contributed to the start of the war. Japan by invading China and attacking Pearl Harbor, the U.S by cutting off oil supplies to Japan making them think they had no choice but to go to war. @Doomlock @tcbaker777 @Carrier_Lexington I respect all of you but this can't be changed, he has his view and there is nothing we can do to change it. It's just like when I visited the memorial at Omaha Beach where an American spat on the grave of a Canadian solider, as a proud Canadian I was insulted and quite angry. Out of respect to the men at rest there I calmly asked why he did so to which he replied "Why? Canadians didn't do crap but die they don't deserve to be buried in an American graveyard". Did i shout at him and call him a disrespectful [edited]? No. I left him to his views, you all need to do this. Everyone step back and just let it go. Since the OP is probably horrified about what has happened to this thread I'm going to ask for him, @Mezurashi lock this thread, it has been completly derailed.

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