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HorrorRoach

Excessive British HE spam solution?

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I just thought of a potential solution for the British BB HE spamming... Fire quenching. Anyone with a charcoal grill can see what happens if you briefly limit the oxygen to the fire with the lid. A roaring fire turns into a smolder.

 

When a British BB (or any ship with large cal, high fire chance shells) hits a target with a bunch of HE shells, the shells make large explosions in a giant cloud on the ship. It's logical that it would start the ship on fire. But, if that BB shoots another volley and a similar amount of shells hit the burning ship. That giant cloud is going to suck all the oxygen out of the air briefly and temporarily quench the fire/s... Each of the 4 of the fire zones could have a fire quenching chance due to the intense/brief oxygen deprivation, depending on where the explosions are localized. It wouldn't put out the fires completely, but it could lower them to a "smoldering" level where the hit point loss per sec is lowered by 50% or something. The smoldering state could last maybe 15-20 seconds, then the fire will return to normal intensity, or go out.. . You can have the fire quench chance based on the speed of the target as well. If the target ship isn't moving, the fire quench chance will be higher. If the target ship is moving fast, the quench chance will be lower because it's moving into fresh air. 

 

What would happen if more British HE shells hit the smoldering fires? Well,  they could reignite the fire to normal intensity if the ship is moving since there's more oxygen, or they'll quench it completely if ship is moving slowly. 

 

This would allow BB's to counter the British HE by slowing down and tanking at 1/2 throttle...  The British BB captain can switch to AP and let the fires burn... Or just keep shooting HE, risk putting the fires out, and still reap the high HE damage Alpha, but at least it'll limit the fire damage somewhat.

 

I know this isn't going to happen, but i thought i'd write it to maybe inspire thoughts/solutions. There's all kinds of ways to balance the game without ruining it, you just have to start envisioning things.

 

EJ

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Honestly just take away like 70-80% of their current fire chance and give them the standard /6 HE pen instead of /4

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If you change the HE shells then you have to change the AP shells as well. The AP shells on the British BB's have a fuse that activates in like...half the time of a normal shell (I think), which causes it to detonate earlier, which is why its not recommended to use AP shells on a British BB. If they want to balance it a bit, take off like...5% or maybe a little more off of the fire chance.

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idk, just lowering the fire chance will ruin the british BB's, they'll be like crappier versions of the German BB's. War gaming needs to add a little more complexity to the fire mechanics, give the guy who's burning some way to prolong his life a little bit. Instead of fire quenching, how about different intensity fires? instead of raging infernos that turn on and off in 4 places.... Have 3 separate levels of fires that burn in those 4 places. The current fire hitloss per sec being the most severe fire you can get, then one at 75% hit loss per sec, and one at 50%, that'd be easy to implement.

 

 

So if you get hit by British HE, maybe 1 of the 3 fires set will be the lowest tier fire so it's not as bad

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If you don't like being set on fire then there are a half-dozen modules, commander skills, and signal flags that you can use to lessen the chance, number, and duration of fires. Plus, there are flags and modules that allow you to use your damage control more often.

 

Also, you don't necessarily have to use your Damage Control immediately, especially if you are in a battleship.  While two British battleships were merrily setting me on fire yesterday I sank both with AP from my Arizona then quenched the fire and repaired the damage. I got some nice fire-prevention signal flags from my "Fireproof" award too.

 

This game is about tradeoffs -- there's not a single ship that excels at everything. Half of the fun of this game is developing a playstyle for each ship that uses its strengths to their best ability while minimizing its weaknesses. 

Edited by Snargfargle
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I've found a perfectly good solution. Don't think I'll be set on fire again.

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A new line of BB's that make you want to change your Captains skills to fire and damage prevention. Damn smart of WG to do this. Now, not every German BB will configure for secondaries and the same goes for the other BB's with their respective builds. Bow camping isn't such a great thing when you can now be damaged by something finally. The British BB's are great for the meta. I am not sorry for you guys that are now having to change your play style. Maybe now teams might actually start working together and focus firing the big threats, instead of running around like an uncovered colony of ants.

Edited by Sovereigndawg

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43 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

If you don't like being set on fire then there are a half-dozen modules, commander skills, and signal flags that you can use to lessen the chance, number, and duration of fires. Plus, there are flags and modules that allow you to use your damage control more often.

 

Also, you don't necessarily have to use your Damage Control immediately, especially if you are in a battleship.  While two British battleships were merrily setting me on fire yesterday I sank both with AP from my Arizona then quenched the fire and repaired the damage. I got some nice fire-prevention signal flags from my "Fireproof" award too.

 

This game is about tradeoffs -- there's not a single ship that excels at everything. Half of the fun of this game is developing a playstyle for each ship that uses its strengths to their best ability while minimizing its weaknesses. 

 

This is like Aircraft and Anti-Aircraft Builds.  Aircraft can be a threat, and when one recommends some form of AA Build (and there are several, depending on how intense of dedication you want), people scoff, because they don't want to put the effort and build space to deal with the air threat.

 

The average player does not want to put the effort to deal with that threat.

 

RN BB HE is the same thing.

 

FFS, people act like there has been no Fire Spam before.  People act like eating a bunch of faster firing 8" Cruiser HE doesn't exist, like the threat of fire didn't exist.  People act like the threat of fires never existed before in WoWS :Smile_teethhappy:

People act like being set afire by an island-covered Atlanta never existed before.

People act like a smoked Belfast or Perth slamming them with IFHE HE salvos never existed before.

People act like Hindenburg with the German Cruiser HE Pen Buff and spam, setting ships afire, like this never existed before.

People act like the traditional Queen of HE Hellfire, Zao, never existed before.

People act like Henri IV can't set you afire.

People act like they never knew Montana has great HE shells.

:Smile_teethhappy:

 

Lastly, as someone that mainly plays Cruisers, I don't mind the RN BB HE spam.  I rather eat a bunch of HE shells and Fires from a BB than a full AP blast from something like Montana and Yamato.  BB AP can easily end a Cruiser, HE?  No, we get by just fine and can contain the fire threat.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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5 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

 

This is like Aircraft and Anti-Aircraft Builds.  Aircraft can be a threat, and when one recommends some form of AA Build (and there are several, depending on how intense of dedication you want), people scoff, because they don't want to put the effort and build space to deal with the air threat.

 

The average player does not want to put the effort to deal with that threat.

 

RN BB HE is the same thing.

 

FFS, people act like there has been no Fire Spam before.  People act like eating a bunch of faster firing 8" Cruiser HE doesn't exist, like the threat of fire didn't exist.  People act like the threat of fires never existed before in WoWS :Smile_teethhappy:

People act like being set afire by an island-covered Atlanta never existed before.

People act like a smoked Belfast or Perth slamming them with IFHE HE salvos never existed before.

People act like Hindenburg with the German Cruiser HE Pen Buff and spam, setting ships afire, like this never existed before.

People act like the traditional Queen of HE Hellfire, Zao, never existed before.

People act like Henri IV can't set you afire.

People act like they never knew Montana has great HE shells.

:Smile_teethhappy:

There is more to it than just another ship shooting HE. Your HE shells hit harder than AP shells( unless a citadel) How any time have you fired a magnificent shot to be rewarded with bounces and 1180 total damage for your 30 second wait per AP salvo? But now the game has morphed into how best to manage your damage control module, If its never available due to always being on fire.....more floods will stick, your spotted more often and at greater distances.....with RNBB's there are easily 10-15 more fires per game, but not fires from a dd or cruiser where you get 900 damage and a fire...but 6-12k a pop plus two fires.... that's insane. 

It would be interesting to see of other ships that rely on fire damage to see of their numbers are down with RNBB's in the game...or up due to the huge health pools they bring.

I was in a game in my Tirpitz and had tier 6QE shooting a me at 14k, normally I would just steam at it, secondarys firing away and go sink it, but it nailed me for 2 fires......right out of the gate...I can't fight that, couple more hits and fires and I'm done. A tech tree tier 6....

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People want a single ship to be good at everything but this is why teams consist of multiple ships -- you use the advantages of the individual ships to support the overall team. In a game just now I shot down 20 bombers and sank 2 DDs by putting my Cleveland in a position to screen the two CVs on the team. I probably could have farmed more damage by going off on my own but I chose to support the team. Even so, I came in 2nd on a winning team. 

Edited by Snargfargle

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I often start a game with HE loaded as the first shell type in my RN BB, as the first target I will probably see will be DD or CL/CA, but often by the second or third salvo I will have switched to AP for most of the rest of the match, but I wont waste 30sec switching to HE if I happen on a DD or CV they will at the very least get 1 salvo of AP.

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If this is really a problem for so many folks, there is a simple solution, as soon as they fire, they become visible, and everyone's #1 target.  Eliminate the threat by destroying the RNBBs.  It really is the best way.  No one has to change their capt skills or modules, just make them the priority target as soon as they are spotted.  Currently that seems to be the way that cruisers are treated when they spam HE, seems it would work for BBs also.

Use the in-game tools to specify a target and everyone fire on the target.  Over time there will be less and less RNBBs in the que as players find themselves being the priority target.  (Also cruisers and DD will love this, please shoot at someone else first) If you are in a division or a clan even better.  Use you teammates for something other than casual chat.

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Speaking of my Cleveland, even though its fire chance, with the commander skill, is "only" 14%, its rapid fire rate allows me to set numerous fires a game. If the enemy ship uses Damage Control I just target another ship for 30 seconds and then set the original ship afire, where it burns for the full time. I also make it a point to tell CVs which ships have just extinguished their fires so that they can torpedo them and start flooding. I'm sure that I pester ships with fire as much as the RN BBs do.

Edited by Snargfargle

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What looks to bother people about the RNBB compared to your Cleveland is that they can kill a Cleveland (if they can hit it) relatively easily compared to a BB.

Curious have you found the RNBBs easy to set on fire?  I haven't really tried to focus on setting those on fire yet with any of my fire starters.  I'll work on that this weekend.

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1 minute ago, 1dennistt said:

If this is really a problem for so many folks, there is a simple solution, as soon as they fire, they become visible, and everyone's #1 target.  Eliminate the threat by destroying the RNBBs.  It really is the best way.  No one has to change their capt skills or modules, just make them the priority target as soon as they are spotted.  Currently that seems to be the way that cruisers are treated when they spam HE, seems it would work for BBs also.

Use the in-game tools to specify a target and everyone fire on the target.  Over time there will be less and less RNBBs in the que as players find themselves being the priority target.  (Also cruisers and DD will love this, please shoot at someone else first) If you are in a division or a clan even better.  Use you teammates for something other than casual chat.

If it were that simple...the Conqueror has a range of 24k and a detection range of 11.1k, I can fire at ships that can't reach me back and I go back to undetected and repeat.....I can sail up to a Montana just like a DD and blast him at point blank, 20k and 3 fires.....he has to repair, I just sail away kiting him and burning him to death.... he cant win

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1 hour ago, Snargfargle said:

If you don't like being set on fire then there are a half-dozen modules, commander skills, and signal flags that you can use to lessen the chance, number, and duration of fires. Plus, there are flags and modules that allow you to use your damage control more often.

 

Also, you don't necessarily have to use your Damage Control immediately, especially if you are in a battleship.  While two British battleships were merrily setting me on fire yesterday I sank both with AP from my Arizona then quenched the fire and repaired the damage. I got some nice fire-prevention signal flags from my "Fireproof" award too.

 

This game is about tradeoffs -- there's not a single ship that excels at everything. Half of the fun of this game is developing a playstyle for each ship that uses its strengths to their best ability while minimizing its weaknesses. 

You obiviously did not watch the video of Flamu destroying a full health Montana, a Tier X battleship, it less than 4 minutes using the Conqueror's HE pen buff and increased fire chance:

 

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10 minutes ago, Sweetsie said:

If it were that simple...the Conqueror has a range of 24k and a detection range of 11.1k, I can fire at ships that can't reach me back and I go back to undetected and repeat.....I can sail up to a Montana just like a DD and blast him at point blank, 20k and 3 fires.....he has to repair, I just sail away kiting him and burning him to death.... he cant win

I guess guys in the BBs aren't used to not being top dog in the fight?  It's really refreshing for the shoe to be on the other foot for a while.  I suspect these RNBBs will be the new darling only until some new Russian or French BB comes along with some new gimmick.  I think adding the RNBBs has shaken up the BB meta we had before, which is a good thing in the long run.  I guess what we are waiting on now is a new camo with a -35 or -40% chance of fire.  Or maybe a new flag that works like the anti-detonation flag only for fires?

 

Edited by 1dennistt
edit: removed some lines that didn't add anything new to my post.

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2 hours ago, FireAndHEspam said:

Honestly just take away like 70-80% of their current fire chance and give them the standard /6 HE pen instead of /4

 

So in other words just convert them into every other BB who use nothing but AP?  Yeah, that will make them interesting...

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10 minutes ago, CombatBoss said:

You obiviously did not watch the video of Flamu destroying a full health Montana, a Tier X battleship, it less than 4 minutes using the Conqueror's HE pen buff and increased fire chance:

 

 

He was talking about the Conqueror, not RN HE per se.

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48 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

The average player does not want to put the effort to deal with that threat.

Yeah, but Conqueror gets about 4x the combined games of Hakuryu and Midway. Lion gets more games than Taiho/Essex combined. Monarch gets slightly fewer total games a fortnight than all 4 T8 carriers and KGV gets 50% more games than all 4 T7 carriers.

 

An AA spec is like carrying a rocket launcher to work in case of dinosaur attack - unlikely to be useful.

A fire-prevention build is like taking sandwiches in case you get hungry.

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2 hours ago, Raigoth said:

If you change the HE shells then you have to change the AP shells as well. The AP shells on the British BB's have a fuse that activates in like...half the time of a normal shell (I think), which causes it to detonate earlier, which is why its not recommended to use AP shells on a British BB. If they want to balance it a bit, take off like...5% or maybe a little more off of the fire chance.

 

I think RN AP is just bad. The CLs have the fusing you describe, but that makes it good, because you get pens instead of overpens.

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So far. i dont mind them. a little annoying.. but then again i build anti fire on my BB's.

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I have a solution: everybody only play british battleships. WG has a hard time hearing voices and their normal solution is to throw a premium at the problem. Maybe when statistics tank theyll wise up.

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41 minutes ago, 1dennistt said:

I guess guys in the BBs aren't used to not being top dog in the fight?  It's really refreshing for the shoe to be on the other foot for a while.  I suspect these RNBBs will be the new darling only until some new Russian or French BB comes along with some new gimmick.  I think adding the RNBBs has shaken up the BB meta we had before, which is a good thing in the long run.  I guess what we are waiting on now is a new camo with a -35 or -40% chance of fire.  Or maybe a new flag that works like the anti-detonation flag only for fires?

 

What in the wild world of sports are you talking about? Which shoe is refreshing? What shoe and what foot is it on? I am dumber for reading your post.

 

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outside of kinetic penetrators of all flavours, there is still one shell concept developed in the UK during WW2 that is still valid vs the latest types of heavy armour composites, and is also very good vs. concrete and normal plate armour, which is the squash-head type HE round, commonly known as HESH, which blows large chunks of white-hot spall off the inside of thick armour plate etc and will create holes in thinner plates.

 

not all "HE" shells are created equal.

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