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VVoony

need to nerf dispersion for high tier RNBB.

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Everyone talking about fire chances and HE alpha damage but I think they are fine. They are even historically true.

 

I think the real problem is how they are so effective on burning down enemies at LONG DISTANCE.

I feel like RNBB is brain-dead line. Its just all around too good. Now give that to hands of Unicums.. it just becomes a sealclubbing tool. It's a sealclub at T10.

 

If we nerf the long distance dispersion slightly that will reduce fire chance(less shell hitting) and it will actually encourage people to make use of excellent concealment on RNBBs.

 

RNBB should be easier for newbies but the overall effectiveness on unicum players should be lowered.

I think slight dispersion nerf will do the job. Some people might say "thats going to punish good players with good aim and take away the fun!!" Yes, it will at some degree but still RNBB will do just fine and if they want to be awarded for good aim, there are other ships that they can find their awarded plays.

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It's a tricky situation we're in. Bad disbursion with a high individual fire chance improves the odds of setting multiple fires in a single salvo. Good disbursion would make it less likely to set multiple fires, but then you could be making AP OP.

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4 minutes ago, cometguy said:

It's a tricky situation we're in. Bad disbursion with a high individual fire chance improves the odds of setting multiple fires in a single salvo. Good disbursion would make it less likely to set multiple fires, but then you could be making AP OP.

But bad dispersion also mean less alpha damage. And bad dispersion also means there are higher chance to miss the target completely especially if they nerf sigma too.

Nerfing dispersion will always be a nerf.

Edited by 0806sung

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5 minutes ago, 0806sung said:

But bad dispersion also mean less alpha damage. And bad dispersion also means there are higher chance to miss the target completely especially if they nerf sigma too

Ya, but I don't know that they'd ever make the disbursion bad enough, for how high of a fire chance there is. The lower alpha damage would be nice, but it's not going to matter too much if one salvo sets 2 fires, you DCP, the next salvo sets 2 more, and then the Brit uses their concealment to go dark while you burn down, or burn through a repair party.

Edit: of course, come to think of it, good disbursion is no better, because then you just chain fire.

Edited by cometguy

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But nerf only the 419's.

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21 minutes ago, RivertheRoyal said:

But nerf only the 419's.

 

I agree, 419's just puts out too many shells, and with this OP HE shell AND THE ACCURACY, it's way OP.

457's don't have merits against 419's at current state.

Edited by 0806sung

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They did this already.  If you make the shell accuracy worse then it is going to hit the ship too hard.  It is too fine of a line to thread a perfect solution through.

 

Better to tweak HE alpha and/or fire chance.  Balance by making the AP stronger to encourage less brain-dead HE spam at 15km range fighting.  It's giving cruiser meta skills to an armored battleship that has the current meta all out of wack in BB v BB engagements.  I'd complain about cruiser play, but that can't be blamed on the RN BB - we take it in the bum from any battleship 1v1 with half a brain.

 

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1 hour ago, cometguy said:

It's a tricky situation we're in. Bad disbursion with a high individual fire chance improves the odds of setting multiple fires in a single salvo. Good disbursion would make it less likely to set multiple fires, but then you could be making AP OP.

Isn't this the line with the worst AP shell, though?  I mean, I haven't looked at the paper stats I'm just going by the WG narrative and what I've seen on YouTube/read on the forums.  I take your point, but how big of a risk is it, really?  (<- that's an honest question, no snark.  I'm interested to know, please explain your thoughts on the subject!)

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2 minutes ago, Psicopro said:

They did this already.  If you make the shell accuracy worse then it is going to hit the ship too hard.  It is too fine of a line to thread a perfect solution through.

 

Better to tweak HE alpha and/or fire chance.  Balance by making the AP stronger to encourage less brain-dead HE spam at 15km range fighting.  It's giving cruiser meta skills to an armored battleship that has the current meta all out of wack in BB v BB engagements.  I'd complain about cruiser play, but that can't be blamed on the RN BB - we take it in the bum from any battleship 1v1 with half a brain.

 

 

If it's too hard to hit, you are too far. Why RNBB get everything? RNBBs got accuracy to enage long distance and the concealment to close in. If they want to hit enemies reliably and burn them down, they need to choose to risk getting hit. They have super heal to mitigate that too

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Just now, 0806sung said:

 

If it's too hard to hit, you are too far. Why RNBB get everything? RNBBs got accuracy to enage long distance and the concealment to close in. If they want to hit enemies reliably and burn them down, they need to choose to risk getting hit. They have super heal to mitigate that too

Reduce shell dispersion would impact the mid range too.  Montana and Yamato are more accurate at range.  Make this worse and it turns the ship into a turd.  There is a very very fine line between acceptable and trash, and I don't want to see good aim go unrewarded on any platform to be honest.

 

I'm not looking to nerf it out of existence, just see some balance to avoid seeing a future where morons only fire HE.  Some of those morons may wind up on my team after all.

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7 minutes ago, Fishrokk said:

Isn't this the line with the worst AP shell, though?  I mean, I haven't looked at the paper stats I'm just going by the WG narrative and what I've seen on YouTube/read on the forums.  I take your point, but how big of a risk is it, really?  (<- that's an honest question, no snark.  I'm interested to know, please explain your thoughts on the subject!)

Worst verse other BB's.  Against cruisers their AP is a particular problem because of the short fuse.  They get more penetrations and can one shot a cruiser even easier if your not careful.

 

In this game sometimes getting overpen'ed is the best outcome.

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Just now, Psicopro said:

Reduce shell dispersion would impact the mid range too.  Montana and Yamato are more accurate at range.  Make this worse and it turns the ship into a turd.  There is a very very fine line between acceptable and trash, and I don't want to see good aim go unrewarded on any platform to be honest.

 

I'm not looking to nerf it out of existence, just see some balance to avoid seeing a future where morons only fire HE.  Some of those morons may wind up on my team after all.

 

At this current state, unless WG go SUPER CRAZY on the nerf, you can be assured that it won't make it a turd. you want Montana, Yamato level accuracy? just play those ships. RNBB has so MANY other advantages that it doesn't need to have their level of accuracy to be a good ship.

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1 minute ago, Psicopro said:

Worst verse other BB's.  Against cruisers their AP is a particular problem because of the short fuse.  They get more penetrations and can one shot a cruiser even easier if your not careful.

 

In this game sometimes getting overpen'ed is the best outcome.

I'm still on Orion, but I had noticed that my AP was particularly effective against cruisers already.  Thanks!

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2 minutes ago, 0806sung said:

 

At this current state, unless WG go SUPER CRAZY on the nerf, you can be assured that it won't make it a turd. you want Montana, Yamato level accuracy? just play those ships. RNBB has so MANY other advantages that it doesn't need to have their level of accuracy to be a good ship.

That's the problem, the difference between even 1.8 and 1.7 can mean a significant problem when trying to take on targets of opportunity.  If you give it German dispersion, you would have to redesign it to be German tanky.  That means give it a hit point buff probably.

 

I hate the Hood even though it's tanky when angled because Warspite guns without Warspite sigma is not satisfying.   When is the last time you saw several Hood's in a match?  Don't want to see a tier X bb in any line become a super-hood.  YMMV

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11 minutes ago, Psicopro said:

That's the problem, the difference between even 1.8 and 1.7 can mean a significant problem when trying to take on targets of opportunity.  If you give it German dispersion, you would have to redesign it to be German tanky.  That means give it a hit point buff probably.

 

I hate the Hood even though it's tanky when angled because Warspite guns without Warspite sigma is not satisfying.   When is the last time you saw several Hood's in a match?  Don't want to see a tier X bb in any line become a super-hood.  YMMV

 

You are focused on HE Spam meta, I'am focused on balancing an OP ship.

your proposal is to buff RNBB's AP shell to stop the HE meta, but that just makes the RNBB more perfect. It is not a nerf.

You said Hood's sigma is not satisfying.. that's the point, do you want a fun ship or do you want a balanced ship? 

My proposal is that we need to balance the ship for the sake of everyone's fun not just for the RNBB player. 

Hood is actually doing very well with poor sigma. Stats even say that hood is doing better than the Warspite.

 

Every ship needs to have strengths AND Weaknesses. you propose that if we were to nerf RNBB's accuracy to KM level, we need to give them KM level of tanking. In fact, right now, RNBB has higher survivor percentage, with their super-heal, they are even more tankier in some situations. your proposal would not be a enough of NERF.

Edited by 0806sung

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7 minutes ago, Pata1985 said:

They are already within the worst dispersion shells.

I suggest it needs to be worse than this

Edited by 0806sung

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9 hours ago, 0806sung said:

 

You are focused on HE Spam meta, I'am focused on balancing an OP ship.

your proposal is to buff RNBB's AP shell to stop the HE meta, but that just makes the RNBB more perfect. It is not a nerf.

You said Hood's sigma is not satisfying.. that's the point, do you want a fun ship or do you want a balanced ship? 

My proposal is that we need to balance the ship for the sake of everyone's fun not just for the RNBB player. 

Hood is actually doing very well with poor sigma. Stats even say that hood is doing better than the Warspite.

 

Every ship needs to have strengths AND Weaknesses. you propose that if we were to nerf RNBB's accuracy to KM level, we need to give them KM level of tanking. In fact, right now, RNBB has higher survivor percentage, with their super-heal, they are even more tankier in some situations. your proposal would not be a enough of NERF.

Agree to disagree.  Ship needs to be toned down, but making tier X ships not able to hit crap at range makes the ship a damage pinata.  No one is going to want to play the role of pin cushion.

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Its not the dispersion that is the problem.

It is how WG, in its infinite foolishness, told its playerbase (especially the less skilled) that "Hey everyone! We are WELL aware that fire is a huge problem, so our answer is to have BBs spam it too! 40% chance per shell! Because deck fires were SO AWESOME at sinking BBs!  That'll fix the problem! Sure, we know it artificially inflates the stats of some of the more crappy players out there, but hey! no worries! We get off on defecating on our loyal long term fan base and appeasing to  the COD rejects!"
/sarcasm
Never mind the fact that AP from even the lowly KGV is more than adequate at holding its own even against most of tier 8s aside of the Bismarck...

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I'll agree that the 419 guns need a nerf. However the 457 mm guns should remain the same. There has to be some reason to use the 457 mm guns

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Dispersion is a tricky one. Because it is also what will give hits on DDs. And since a single AP shell can rek a DD these days, having a shotgun spray is pretty efficient.

It is a hard nut to crack as whatever you do, there will be a downside.

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7 hours ago, YukonHunter said:

It is how WG, in its infinite foolishness, told its playerbase (especially the less skilled) that "Hey everyone! We are WELL aware that fire is a huge problem, so our answer is to have BBs spam it too! 40% chance per shell! Because deck fires were SO AWESOME at sinking BBs!

 

You do understand that BBs have always had a super high fire chance right?  The Montana has a 36%, Yamato 35% and the KM has a 41%.  Now yes the 48% on the Conquer is insane and should be looked at but even if it was brought back more in line with the others, it would still have around a 40% chance you are complaining about.  

 

7 hours ago, YukonHunter said:

Never mind the fact that AP from even the lowly KGV is more than adequate at holding its own even against most of tier 8s aside of the Bismarck..

 

Until tier X the RN AP is weaker than similar tier BB.  The KGVs AP does  10.5k while it's KM counterpart does 11,6k and that is ntot to mention they frequently have shorter firing ranges.  My Monarch is giving up 3kms to similar tier BBs (18.1km compared to the 21+km on the Bismarck).

 

 

Edited by Bril01

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THE ONLY NERFS THEY NEED ARE ALREADY IN THE GAME. THEY ARE CALLED AP ROUNDS AND TORPEDOS. Seriously, any decent player in a Hindenburg, MOskva or Zao can wreck a Conq from far enough away to be immune from return fire with proper WASD hacks. I know. It happens to me every 10 or so games. You are totally screwed if 2 of them get together and focus fire / spam AP on you. Citadel is low but everything else gonna get torn up. No turtle back. You have super heal but it won’t fix all that AP damage and they gonna damag you faster than you can repair anyway. All you can do is try to run, expose your unarmored butt and hope help arrives. RNBB are quite a bit of fun. I even enjoyed the monarch (gasp). The AP is crap against other B.B. 90 percent of the time unless you get that perfect broadside but it is quite potent against cruisers. The HE is very effective, as it should be, due to national flavor etc. 

Edited by thebigblue

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52 minutes ago, thebigblue said:

THE ONLY NERFS THEY NEED ARE ALREADY IN THE GAME. THEY ARE CALLED AP ROUNDS AND TORPEDOS. Seriously, any decent player in a Hindenburg, MOskva or Zao can wreck a Conq from far enough away to be immune from return fire with proper WASD hacks. I know. It happens to me every 10 or so games. You are totally screwed if 2 of them get together and focus fire / spam AP on you. Citadel is low but everything else gonna get torn up. No turtle back. You have super heal but it won’t fix all that AP range and they gonna range you faster than you can repair anyway. All you can do is try to run, expose your unarmored butt and hope help arrives. RNBB are quite a bit of fun. I even enjoyed the monarch (gasp). The AP is crap against other B.B. 90 percent of the time unless you get that perfect broadside but it is quite potent against cruisers. The HE is very effective, as it should be, due to national flavor etc. 

Most of the unfavorable comparisons have been in BB vs BB engagements.  As a Des Moines I can stick AP into them pretty reliably and if they are firing HE I don't have to worry about lolpens into my enormous above water citadel.  (or at least I don't think I have to.  What is the math on that again? ~.~)

 

I almost never repair a fire if under fire from a Conq till I have secured my exit.

Edited by Psicopro

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