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OldFrog75

Hiding at the back doesn't feel right...

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Does any ship class in any tier actually step out and brawl in this game, overwhelming the opposition with their guns and armor?

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9 minutes ago, GhostSwordsman said:

Yes, when the opportunity presents itself.

Does this game have the equivalent at any level of the corners on the maps in WoT where Heavies (Battleships) traditionally run to at the start of the game and then brawl until one team overwhelms the other, wins the flank, then pushes forward to the enemy cap?

Edited by OldFrog75

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No, there is no place where you will always find a brawl. Brawling in this game happens when a Party spots an opportunity. But there are several classes that can be very strong brawlers. American Destroyers are knife fighters, the entire German line can also brawl quite well.

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I'm just not used to watching an entire team mill around doing nothing but waiting for the enemy to finally reveal themselves 10 km away.  Looks like everyone is playing scared.

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If you are in a ship built to brawl then you may venture forth - however, brawler or not, you will not last long if you are the only target the enemy has to fire at.

 

Problem is a non-brawler isn't going to want to run to the front just because a brawler does! As I stated in your other thread learn the strengths/weaknesses of your ship and that of the enemy. What I should have added, is that it is just as important to use the minimap and read the flow of the battle (even a brawler can be caught out and destroyed without support).

 

I asked whether you had already made your mind up on how you think people should play in your last thread. Looking at your wording again ('everyone' playing scared) you seem to think all should play a certain way(?) Maybe some of those you label as scared are actually playing their ship to its strength?

 

You will learn more and you will do better (as will many who are playing alongside you)! However, not to dismiss your observations, you will also come across those that will not learn and rush to the front and die, or stay at the back and not contribute. :Smile_honoring:

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I brawl just fine with my Yamato and her secondary build, and Dunkerque is a great knife-fight boat if you keep your nose to your enemy.
The problem is people are usually too worried about credit-loss, if they don't make at least 100,000-200,000 creds a battle then they get salty. Personally, I get just as much fun out of a 200,000 loss as I do a 200,000 win.
Take the advise you give others in your signature; " It's just a game - Play the Ships and Tiers that give you the most joy ", so grab a ship you feel comfortable with and get up in someone's face, use the islands on the map as cover for your advance, watch your corners in case some cheeky destroyer pops up and just... live by these few simple words~
 

 

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The problem is I'm trying to transfer my WoT skills to this game and it doesn't work - at least not in Tier I.  There are no light ships that race out at 70 kts to spot for invisible Cruisers to snipe and kill with 1-3 shots.  Battleships don't go to a predetermined Island or an alley and play peek-a-boo with each other until one team overwhelms the other and pushes to the cap.  There aren't any fast support ships with guns and armor that can move quickly from on side of the map to the other as needed.

 

Everyone plods along at 25 kts and it is impossible to shift from forward to reverse and back to forward fast enough to poke out from behind an iceberg or an island to take a shot and keep from getting shot yourself - and even if you could, it takes 20-30 shots to kill an enemy 5-6 kms away rather than only 2 or 3 shots to kill one 100 meters away.

 

I want the ships to be as fast and nimble as tanks (maybe something along the lines of a SeaDoo with a Howitzer) so my play style can be more aggressive and the driving skills I have developed will have some benefit but they aren't and I'm having trouble adjusting to the slower, more methodical play style, especially when I come over to WoWS to play after a rough day/night where the MM and RNG on WoT has gotten me so amped up I want to turn off my computer.  

 

It definitely requires an adjustment and will take some time but I'm hopeful I'll ultimately figure out how to move back and forth between the two games.

Edited by OldFrog75

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I found out that Russian DDs are fun to play with any team. Even when your team likes to hug the border you can still have lots of fun with them :)

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The whole idea of the game is as following:

1. Identify enemy ship movement and predict their next move

 

2. Take superior position to counter enemy move.

 

3. Engage on your terms so you can win.

 

Against smart opponents, you can't really just charge in and get the win. You will get outplayed.

 

Bad players see they can't win by simply pushing so they just go hide in the back forever.

 

Good payers learn from their mistakes and analyze every situation and try to gradually work their way to a superior position.

 

 

  • Cool 2

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when I see a Bismark at range the whole game... I die a little inside.....

Spoiler

(on my team... when he is on the red team... I guess thats ok....:Smile_smile:)

 

Edited by pmgaudio

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Two things I'd like to add...

First and foremost, don't judge the game by what you see (or don't see) in Tier 1 or Tier 2 battles. The ships and their capabilities increase as you progress upwards. Think of it as being similar to comparing a Sherman to a Abrams, you wouldn't want to battle one against the other, but you can see where things have changed as time has progressed. It's the same with ships... Tier 2 & Tier 3 ships are pretty much WW1, where the higher Tiers place you closer to the end of WW2, or in some cases, designs that were based on lessons learned during the war.

Second, travel through water vs. over land is very different, inertia from your forward momentum must be overcome before you change the direction of travel, so the idea of poking your guns out, banging off a volley, then returning to cover isn't as easy as it could be with a land vehicle. There are other viable tactics, check out some of the videos that are available, then see what works best for you.

Last... have fun.

 

 

 

 

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Brawling and tanking is kinda the whole point of the German BBs.  If you're still milling about t1 then that's your problem.. why get in close and brawl when you have no torps not secondaries. No DDs or BBs just old sloops that can't even change shell types.  Until I'd say t4 you are not yet in the real game, hard to make judgments on the meta before you really get into it.

 

Edit: And if you're having trouble getting a feel for what you should be doing, then just ask, plenty of forum members (myself included) would be happy to div up with you.

Edited by Kapitan_Wuff

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4 hours ago, OldFrog75 said:

The problem is I'm trying to transfer my WoT skills to this game and it doesn't work - at least not in Tier I.  There are no light ships that race out at 70 kts to spot for invisible Cruisers to snipe and kill with 1-3 shots.  Battleships don't go to a predetermined Island or an alley and play peek-a-boo with each other until one team overwhelms the other and pushes to the cap.  There aren't any fast support ships with guns and armor that can move quickly from on side of the map to the other as needed.

 For one, there aren't any ships that do 70kts. Barely any ships go above 50. On another point, gameplay is a little more fluid here when compared to WOT. There aren't so many narrow passages or chokes where combat is guaranteed. 

Everyone plods along at 25 kts and it is impossible to shift from forward to reverse and back to forward fast enough to poke out from behind an iceberg or an island to take a shot and keep from getting shot yourself - and even if you could, it takes 20-30 shots to kill an enemy 5-6 kms away rather than only 2 or 3 shots to kill one 100 meters away.

25 knots is actually fairly fast as far as larger vessels go. Ships have much greater inertia than tanks as they are so much larger and heavier. As a result, they take much more time to stop and change direction. Poking out as you describe only works in a few situations. Usually it's better to either press an attack or retreat. Tier 1 is an odd place gameplay wise as it's difficult to get citadels (other than with Black Swan) as WG has removed AP from the other ships at that tier.  

I want the ships to be as fast and nimble as tanks (maybe something along the lines of a SeaDoo with a Howitzer) so my play style can be more aggressive and the driving skills I have developed will have some benefit but they aren't and I'm having trouble adjusting to the slower, more methodical play style, especially when I come over to WoWS to play after a rough day/night where the MM and RNG on WoT has gotten me so amped up I want to turn off my computer.  

Here it sounds like you're looking for a destroyer though to do the sort of damage you seem to be imagining, you'd have to use torpedoes.

It definitely requires an adjustment and will take some time but I'm hopeful I'll ultimately figure out how to move back and forth between the two games.

 

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5 hours ago, OldFrog75 said:

The problem is I'm trying to transfer my WoT skills to this game and it doesn't work -

This

If you play like Wot You might as well go back to Wot. This is not WoT and those skills you learned their really won't help you. You need to learn the basics and then learn your ships as you progress.

Just because a game is made by the same company doesn't mean the games are the same

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4 minutes ago, nina_blain_73 said:

This

If you play like Wot You might as well go back to Wot. This is not WoT and those skills you learned their really won't help you. You need to learn the basics and then learn your ships as you progress.

Just because a game is made by the same company doesn't mean the games are the same

 

Lies.  There are plenty of skills that can transfer from WOT.  I brought them and they helped me.

Map Awareness

Shell Selection
Aiming for specific parts of boats/tanks.
Angling.

 

Granted, they are used differently, but if you have the core mechanics of the above from WOT, it doesn't take long to replace X with Y and you're rocking.

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At Tier III, the first brawlers show up.  The St. Louis is the toughest cruiser at her tier . . . a fat, deadly bully!  Tier III battleships are tough but not as fun to play as Tier IV battleships.  (Tier IV warships are interesting and are in a sweet spot (sheltered MM) in the evolution of a player.) 

Destroyers are fragile . . . but are so lethal!  One of the destroyer roles is to be up front spotting for bigger guns behind them.

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Many thanks to all who have taken the time to read (and indulge) my mini-rants the past few days. I really do appreciate all the feedback and suggestions. 

 

Full disclosure - I'm recovering from abdominal surgery last week and I think the combination of pain pills and the Dr's orders to quit smoking since nicotine apparently impedes soft tissue healing have made me more irascible and intolerant than usual.  Hopefully this too shall pass ...  for all our sakes.

 

Thanks again for your support while I try to get my head on straight and figure out how to play this game.

 

 

Edited by OldFrog75

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Map vision control is big in tanks, same here in ships

Using cover to not get hit while dealing damage in tanks is important, same here. 

In tanks there are the bushes; here we have smoke and radar / hydro

there are lots of overlapping "good player" concepts in tanks that can apply here.  Also there are some good videos to watch on both games to see how the good players do it.   It'll take awhile to learn all the little quirks of warships, like it did for you in tanks.   Sadly there are MM problems in both games.

Good Luck, have fun!

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Don't worry too much if you are just starting out in WOWS. I played mainly co-op battles in Tier 1 & 2 learning the ships, tactics, different maps, strategies and making LOTS of mistakes. Started playing random battles at Tier 3 and I felt like a noob for a long time but as I advanced up thru the tiers I got more comfortable with the game. I'm 61 years old so I'm kind of a slow learner. I've had a few Krakens but my best damage totals have always been around 150-175K and my winrate is right above 50%. I don't believe I've topped 200K damage ever that I can remember but at my age who knows. :cap_haloween:

Good luck and you'll get the hang of it in time. I love the game but also hate it at times. LOL

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German BB's are the best at brawling. With turtle back armor that are super hard to citadel at close ranges and they have the best secondaries, with fast turrets and fast firing guns for their tier. The higher tier you go the more dangerous it is to brawl, you have to look for your chances and then go for it. If you try to force it you will just get focused fired down and die, doing little to the enemy in return.

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At higher tiers brawling at close range will usually get you focused and torpedoes pretty quick. Situational brawling, like going head to head with a lone enemy gun-destroyer, gun-cruiser or battleship can be fun, but you have to be aware of your surroundings and try not to expose your sides. If you want the pure joy of just getting in their and shooting them up, then tier 3-4 ships are great fun, especially the old dreadnought battleships and the armoured cruisers like St Louism the tier III American cruiser, which is a porcupine on crack.

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There is not much more frustrating than to be in the fight all game, and then at the 12 minute mark see BBs (enemy or your teammates) at full health come out from hiding all game.  I am all about pressing any advantage to win but this seems unsavory, and also not a lot of fun.  But to each their own.

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On 05/10/2017 at 0:05 PM, pmgaudio said:

when I see a Bismark at range the whole game... I die a little inside.....

Ha! I agree. That player is not utilising the ships full potential by staying at range, worse yet hiding behind an island and at range.

 

Recently, I was on Ocean map. MM'd with Tier 9s-10s. I thought to myself "Oh S**t". Shrugged it off, then proceeded to track towards C cap with a DD in vanguard, and a Des Moines.

Whilst couple were going to B, and rest going to A. Since it took longer for me to get to C, and I told myself that I'll be the bait to allow our team to Cap A (or B). Being the sacrificial lamb, and taking the heat off the B cap.

Got in contact with Des Moines x2 , a German DD nutjob, and a Fletcher, and later a Missouri and GK coming from B to whack my ship out of the water.

Somehow, by being super aggressive. I was able to sink Des Moines, DD, and the Missouri at C cap and held it. Until I flooded out. Allowing my team to maintain their A cap and regain their B to win the game out.

Turtle-back armour? yes please. Manual fire Secondaries? yes please. Using DCT smartly? no choice here. Sinking that Missouri? warm fuzzy feeling. Plan working out? priceless.

 

Going back to topic...

 

Some may say that "hiding at the back" is a valid tactic, some may disagree. However, I'm of the mindset where a Battleships presence is an immense psychological threat, and a physical one. Whether a battleship is hiding in cover at mid points of the map. Or moving with the fleet. They are greatly contributing to the battle.

However, if they are at max range of the rifles and sniping away at targets. Tip toeing the W and D key in small increments. They start to add to my subconscious disdain for Tier 9-10 matches you'll experience at these tiers. Even worse when they are severely out positioned to take any cap points, when all their vanguard ships were sunk. It's at these situations of "fire, get concealed" ranged "tactic" is invalid. You are too far to recap any areas, nor are you effectively disallowing the OPFOR to push further. It just gives them the real estate (space) to play around with more. They will also have more cover as well. You have effectively, allowed them to push ("bully" term I noticed being used by Flamu quite often) you endlessly.

 

So please I ask you battleship mains. Please, for the love of your ship and the sanity of the other players. Please, with cherry on top. Make your presence known, physically and more importantly psychologically for the OPFOR aggressors.

 

 

 

 

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On ‎10‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 4:55 AM, Exciton8964 said:

Bad players see they can't win by simply pushing so they just go hide in the back forever.

Then far far far too many players are bad players, because this is prevalent in almost every match.

I can't do it.  I try and wait, but just sitting there doing nothing isn't fun, isn't productive, and sure as heck isn't why I play the game.  BUT if everyone else is hiding waiting for a set of cojones to grow, and you venture out, you die.  Not because you did anything wrong, but because they did.  It's VERY frustrating.  Basically playing to be the last loser standing.  I don't get it.  The more aggressive team wins almost every time, yet that lesson doesn't seem to sink in...at all.  it's becoming quite common to see your team sail en masse to a certain point, yet STILL not cap it, or even seem to be trying to.  If this happened in wartime, they'd all be court martialed.  I don't like playing with people who are criminally negligent in their duties.

And it is becoming prevalent at every tier.  So its not like you can do anything to get away from it.

Edited by DrunkenSailor63

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