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NavySpace13

Opinions on GZ test Ship

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I'm making this thread because I dont have a facebook, and I would like to leave more detailed opinion on this test ship than what you can normally put on the survey. I'm not a supertester or go really deep into ship stats; But i dont mind leaving this thread open to anyone else who doesnt have or wish to use facebook, or anyone who would like to leave a constructive comment. That being said:

 

* The Phase one GZ test 2 ship with the circle aiming was far better than the Test 1 ship; however, it seems the aiming always favored the sides of the circle more so than the center, even when manually aiming. Keeping the circle aiming for both the HE and AP variants would also be a good thing to have as the "Special Feature" for the ships premium status and for the JU-87 being one of the more accurate dive bombers of the era.

 

* The Phase 1 T8 Fighters seemed to perform better than the Phase 1 T7 fighters did with the dog-fighting perk; And the Phase 2 T7 Fighters w/ dogfight seem to do worse than the phase 1 T7 fighters w/ dogfight. I can barely shoot down T8 Japanese Fighters and have trouble facing a single T8 American Squadron with both of mine. However, I have not put any upgrades on the ship, but i didnt have any upgrades on my Phase 1 ships either, which leads me to believe that that is not a major factor in the performance difference. 

 

* Is it just me, or does anyone else notice that none of the test ships seem to have the quick Acceleration/Deceleration Responsiveness and quick Rudder Response of the Original GZ? That was a big factor in me Facing of a Half health New Orleans CA and sinking her with secondaries. I would hate to see that reduced with the ship update; it's part of what makes her a decent support CV and being able to face the more Agile DD's without getting a broadside full of torps, which was one of the big factors of giving her good secondaries in the first place.

 

* I can understand using Deep run Torps w/ Cross formation for Torp squadrons. It might even be decently effective with a 2F - 2HE B - 1T loadout for balanced play. But the cross formation is too spread out to be effective against anything other than a distracted BB or a AFK/ Spawn sitting CV. Nothing against the formation itself; hell, I can still make a few hits despite Defensive AA or fighter attack, But the distance between the torpedoes allows even a Lexington the ability to dodge half of them. [ And on the note of Torp Squadrons, using a  JU-88 model instead of the JU-87 would be more historically accurate as the 88 actually could carry torpedoes, not to mention having the luxury of telling apart your squadrons. But hey, it's aesthetics, just a thought. ] 

 

* And final and probably most important point of all: None of the planes can threaten a T9 or TX ship effectively.  The AA is too strong. British BB's and half the destroyers might take some damage, but god help you if it's an American ship of any type or a Russian CA. And it might not be so bad if it wasnt for the fact that 70-80% of the battles I have been in have involved a significant number of T9 and TX ships. It's demoralizing madness that by itself wants to regulate this ship as a Co-op only. Whether by increasing plane health, speed, or some other factor; this needs to be fixed so it doesn't feel like your just a free ticket for someone to earn a clear sky award. 

 

Thats all i can say about the test ships. Anyone elses thoughts on them?

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5 minutes ago, NavySpace13 said:

And final and probably most important point of all: None of the planes can threaten a T9 or TX ship effectively

And since when should tier 8 planes wreck tier 9 or 10 ships?  Some of their planes do still get through which is [edited].  If tier 8 planes could destroy tier 9 and 10 ships with ease what would be the point in playing tier 9 or 10 carriers?

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The HE bombs on the vanilla release DZ, which you don't mention, happen to be perfectly viable in all MM scenarios, and offer the only realistic hope of influencing tier10 battles (by their ability to sink dds). All other loadouts are/will be obselete/redundant as long as ammunition switching in battle for the GZ is unavailable.

It is not true that neither the AP nor the DWT cannto damage tier 10 ships, I for one have sunk a Grosser Kurfürst in one strike rotation (3 squadrons of DWT), and many other tier 10 bbs with AP, either soley over the course of a battle, or as a contributor to total damage against. But there are reasons (as in my first paragraph) to underline why AP and DWT will always be sub-optimal for the GZ in the random battle MM meta of t6 to t10, until/unless ammunition switching is introduced.

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2 hours ago, NavySpace13 said:

The Phase one GZ test 2 ship with the circle aiming was far better than the Test 1 ship;

(...) 

The Phase 1 T8 Fighters seemed to perform better than the Phase 1 T7 fighters did with the dog-fighting perk;

 

Sry but I cannot take it seriously. 

 

About the cross drop formation:

It is actually not bad. But I would prefer 3x4 TB (with little less damage) and one Squad of HE. 

 

What I noticed: 

Strafes against Lexington Fighters often do not result in a single plane kill. Really underwhelming. 

Edited by Helmut__Kohl

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In a battle last night, A GZ with two torpedo squads wiped out all 5 T8/T9 battleships in the first 8 minutes.

Plane loss was minimal.

Looked so easy...    NEXT.

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10 minutes ago, AVR_Project said:

In a battle last night, A GZ with two torpedo squads wiped out all 5 T8/T9 battleships in the first 8 minutes.

Plane loss was minimal.

Looked so easy...    NEXT.

 

It can (only) happen when enemy CV is inactive and enemy BBs are oblivious. 

Same with Kaga. 

 

Just like Shimakaze or G.Kurfürst can have insane games with some luck. 

Edited by Helmut__Kohl

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47 minutes ago, Helmut__Kohl said:

 

It can (only) happen when enemy CV is inactive and enemy BBs are oblivious. 

Same with Kaga. 

 

Just like Shimakaze or G.Kurfürst can have insane games with some luck. 

I was in a complete Iowa with 94 AA rating - early in the battle.

Took me out in one cross-drop strike with 6 hits.  My accomplishments that mission?  Shot down 5 planes.

And my CV was a Shokaku.  It was out of planes by mid-battle.

Edited by AVR_Project

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3 minutes ago, AVR_Project said:

I was in a complete Iowa with 94 AA rating - early in the battle.

Took me out in one cross-drop strike with 6 hits.  My accomplishments that mission?  Shot down 5 planes.

 

Did you steer into them early in advance and use manual AA to focus those trying to flank you? 

Took out all 3 squadrons in my Alabama, not a single torpedo hit. 

Also what does Shokaku do to you with fire+flooding? 

Edited by Helmut__Kohl

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Just now, Helmut__Kohl said:

 

Did you steer into them early in advance and use manual AA to focus those trying to flank you? 

Took out all 3 squadrons in my Albama, not a single torpedo hit. 

Manual drops -- right up next to my boat -- I was erased...   as were the other BBs on my team.  And I wasn't alone either.  There were two others in my group - but they melted away from being spotted.

Response time was -- about zip.  I don't have the focused AA captain skill (have that on my Des Moines), but yes, I hit 'M', clicked on the closest torpedo squad, then went back to my feeble attempts at WASD.

RNG is a fickle thing.  This morning, I was grinding the Iron Duke in a CV battle.  My team was a Bogue -- Red team had a Zuiho (of course).  Zuiho fighters wiped out the Bogue fighters -- while I was providing AA shooting at the Zuiho fighters.  Zuiho only lost ONE plane out of 4 and flew off.

Fortunately, the Zuiho op had some strange vendetta against me.  He/she send FOUR strike groups after me.  I was running back to spawn, healing as best as I could after each strike.  But this op stayed focused on me alone.  Those decisions lost the game for their side.  The Zuiho had a clear advantage in spotting for their team, but lost it due to misplaced aggression towards one player.  The red team even had a Kamikaze-R on their side.

I have a Zuiho on both my accounts, and one simply doesn't play it that way.  Unfortunately, this type of mental illness will work for the version of GZ that my Iowa experienced.  When one can erase ships like that in one trip..  that's way too much power.  Unfortunately, all the high tier IJN carriers are that way.

And yes, I have high tier CVs.  The Kaga and Enterprise are absolutely savages..  I rarely play them.

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I cannot tell you, how hard it is to drop an IOWA with your GZ, if it keeps turning right into your bombers.

 

It usually does not work, because these bombers die too fast and do not have the time to outrun the IOWAs turns. 

Edited by Helmut__Kohl

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14 minutes ago, Helmut__Kohl said:

I cannot tell you, how hard it is to drop an IOWA with your GZ, if it keeps turning right into your bombers.

 

It usually does not work, because these bombers die too fast and do not have the time to outrun the IOWAs turns. 

Strange thing about being in a battle..   I can't show my broadside to the two enemy BBs (that I can't see).. 

And since I am spotted by planes, and they are not -- they are holding their fire for the right time....

So I have to hard rudder left to 45 degrees to enemy BBs, then hard rudder right -- never showing my broadside.

Options are limited.  Deletion guaranteed.  The only way to avoid being sunk is to not hit the 'Battle' button.

 

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I was also impressed with the staggered torpedo pattern of the GZ.  There were actually two sets of two tight - right next to each other in each group, and a few more offset strays.  It was your basic nightmare wall of torpedoes that looks like 2 destroyers emptied out on you.

Our RNG was real bad on that mission -- it was a wipe-out for my side.  I've seen the effect of Troll-RNG on AA...   Towards the end, the GZ went in to cap, and got sunk.  It's a fast ship to sail half way across the map in such a short time.  Our hold-outs were a cruiser and DD. 

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40 minutes ago, AVR_Project said:

Strange thing about being in a battle..   I can't show my broadside to the two enemy BBs (that I can't see).. 

And since I am spotted by planes, and they are not -- they are holding their fire for the right time....

So I have to hard rudder left to 45 degrees to enemy BBs, then hard rudder right -- never showing my broadside.

Options are limited.  Deletion guaranteed.  The only way to avoid being sunk is to not hit the 'Battle' button.

 

 

Sorry, but it is a matter of bad positioning. Stay with friendly AA, if you are that exposed. 

 

 

 

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The problem with Graf Zeppelin is  marketing.

Forget the torpedoes, Forget the  AP bombs, The Graf Zeppelin should have almost no miss HEAVY dive bombs deliver by JU-87s ( one the best dive bombers).
The high speed Graf Zeppelin had a 45 mm armor flight deck with special armor, new design torpedo protection and ME109 fighters.
WG stop with the gimmicks give us a good, easy to play aircraft carrier. This I would buy, but NO  “deep water torpedo”  CV for me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_aircraft_carrier_Graf_Zeppelin#frb-inline

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10 hours ago, knice_destroyer said:

And since when should tier 8 planes wreck tier 9 or 10 ships?  Some of their planes do still get through which is [edited].  If tier 8 planes could destroy tier 9 and 10 ships with ease what would be the point in playing tier 9 or 10 carriers?

I'm not saying a T8 carrier should be able to destroy 9 and 10 ships with ease. What i am saying is if the GZ is going to be constantly facing MM situations where the entire team is 9 or 10 except for the carriers, give the planes some ability to survive the wall of AA like the Lexington or Kaga planes can. It just seems sad to me when i can lose 4 out of 5 bombers from just passing over a T9 DD .

 

9 hours ago, nuttybiscuit said:

The HE bombs on the vanilla release DZ, which you don't mention, happen to be perfectly viable in all MM scenarios, and offer the only realistic hope of influencing tier10 battles (by their ability to sink dds).

 

You are absolutely right about the Vanilla HE. I just really didnt mention it cause I was focused on talking about the Test ships. And I do agree with you on introducing ammo switch for bombers, especially if they intend to keep this as a all bomber or bomber heavy CV. But for that, Why not give it to all CV's who have AP/HE Loadouts? Would doing that make Enterprise the most feared CV to face or just give most other CV's a decent chance of being a good class?

 

9 hours ago, nuttybiscuit said:

It is not true that neither the AP nor the DWT cannto damage tier 10 ships, I for one have sunk a Grosser Kurfürst in one strike rotation (3 squadrons of DWT), and many other tier 10 bbs with AP, either soley over the course of a battle, or as a contributor to total damage against.

 

Most of the Higher tier ships I can wreck like that seem to be mostly British BB's, though i did Kurfurst remark " wth was that" from just 4 AP bombs. Not to mention my chief complaint about T10 was the inability to even get in strike range because the AA is Hell. 

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