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MrDeaf

Why doesn't New Orleans get a heal?

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Okay, so New Orleans, which has less HP than Edinburgh, worse concealment than Edinburgh, no torpedoes compared to Edinburgh, less AA than Edinburgh and comparable armor to Edinburgh... gets no repair party... because?

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Research price110000 exp
Purchase price8,900,000 Credits
Hit Points35,400 
Main Battery
203 mm/55 Mk143 х 3 pcs.
Rate of Fireshots/min.
Reload Time12 sec.
Rotation Speed6.5 deg./sec.
180 Degree Turn Time27.69 sec.
Firing Range16.17 km.
Maximum Dispersion134 m.
HE Shell203 mm HE/HC Mk25 
Maximum HE Shell Damage2,800 
Chance of Fire on Target Caused by HE Shell14 %
Initial HE Shell Velocity823 m./s.
HE Shell Weight118 kg.
AP Shell203 mm AP Mk19 
Maximum AP Shell Damage4,600 
Initial AP Shell Velocity853 m./s.
AP Shell Weight118 kg.
Secondary Armament #1
127 mm/25 Mk19 mod. 68 х 1 pcs.
Firing Rangekm.
Rate of Fire13.33 shots/min.
Reload Time4.5 sec.
HE Shell127 mm HE/HC Mk36 
Maximum HE Shell Damage1,800 
Initial HE Shell Velocity657 m./s.
Chance of Fire on Target Caused by HE Shel%
AA Defense
127 mm/25 Mk19 mod. 68 х 1 pcs.
. . . Average Damage per Second58.4 
. . . Firing Range4.2 km.
20 mm Oerlikon Mk2017 х 2 pcs.
. . . Average Damage per Second103.7 
. . . Firing Range2.01 km.
40 mm Bofors Mk26 х 4 pcs.
. . . Average Damage per Second95.4 
. . . Firing Range3.51 km.
20 mm Oerlikon Mk49 х 1 pcs.
. . . Average Damage per Second32.4 
. . . Firing Range2.01 km.
Maneuverability
Maximum Speed32.5 knot
Turning Circle Radius660 m.
Rudder Shift Time6.9 sec.
Concealment
Surface Detectability Range11.82 km.
Air Detectability Range7.5 km.
Spoiler
Research price108000 exp
Purchase price8,800,000 Credits
Hit Points36,400 
Main Battery
152 mm/50 Mk XXIII4 х 3 pcs.
Rate of Fireshots/min.
Reload Time7.5 sec.
Rotation Speeddeg./sec.
180 Degree Turn Time25.71 sec.
Firing Range15.42 km.
Maximum Dispersion129 m.
Chance of Fire on Target Caused by HE Shell%
AP Shell152 mm AP 6crh Mk IV 
Maximum AP Shell Damage3,100 
Initial AP Shell Velocity841 m./s.
AP Shell Weight50.8 kg.
Secondary Armament #1
102 mm/45 QF Mk XIX*6 х 2 pcs.
Firing Rangekm.
Rate of Fire20 shots/min.
Reload Timesec.
HE Shell102 mm HE 35 lb 
Maximum HE Shell Damage1,500 
Initial HE Shell Velocity811 m./s.
Chance of Fire on Target Caused by HE Shel%
Torpedo Tubes
533 mm TR Mk IV2 х 3 pcs.
Rate of Fire0.83 shots/min.
Reload Time72 sec.
Rotation Speed25 deg./sec.
180 Degree Turn Time7.2 sec.
Torpedo533 mm Mk IX** 
Maximum Damage15,533 
Torpedo Speed62 knot
Torpedo Range9.99 km.
AA Defense
40 mm Bofors Mk VI3 х 6 pcs.
. . . Average Damage per Second87.6 
. . . Firing Range3.51 km.
20 mm Oerlikon Mk V14 х 2 pcs.
. . . Average Damage per Second85.4 
. . . Firing Range2.01 km.
102 mm/45 QF Mk XIX*6 х 2 pcs.
. . . Average Damage per Second90 
. . . Firing Range5.01 km.
Maneuverability
Maximum Speed32.5 knot
Turning Circle Radius680 m.
Rudder Shift Time9.6 sec.
Concealment
Surface Detectability Range11.7 km.
Air Detectability Range8.13 km.

 

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Like the Mogami, to survive you need to not show broadside, be situationally aware, position yourself properly and be good at dodging.

 

I fail to see the need for a heal on Noleans, if this happens it would be requested for Pensacola and so on.

 

Edit: Remember a time when things were simple? Not many gimmicks, Noleans is a OG ship.

Edited by Zakuul

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... Because she has 8" guns with HE and uber-AP compared to Edinburgh's 6" guns that can only fire AP. Trading a bit of survivability for extra firepower is called balance. If every stat on every same-tier ship was comparable the game would be very boring.

 

Why doesn't NO have a repair party? Because none of the other American cruisers have one either... it's not an American cruiser trait, its a British cruiser trait. Why doesn't Edinburgh get super-penetrating AP rounds? Because that is an American cruiser trait, not a British cruiser trait.

 

C'mon man, this isn't rocket science.

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For the same reason Mogami and every other T8 besides Edinburgh and Atago don't.

 

I'm of the opinion it should be an option on regular T8 CAs as an alternate to AADF/Hydro (giving up some support utility for limited self-healing), while added as standard to Prinz Eugen, if she doesn't get something like separate Radar instead (allowing her to Hydro and Radar, and making her just different enough from Hipper).

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6 minutes ago, dseehafer said:

 

... Because she has 8" guns with HE and uber-AP compared to Edinburgh's 6" guns that can only fire AP. Trading a bit of survivability for extra firepower is called balance. If every stat on every same-tier ship was comparable the game would be very boring.

 

Why doesn't NO have a repair party? Because none of the other American cruisers have one either... it's not an American cruiser trait, its a British cruiser trait. Why doesn't Edinburgh get super-penetrating AP rounds? Because that is an American cruiser trait, not a British cruiser trait.

 

C'mon man, this isn't rocket science.

 

I was under the impression that the RN cruisers are afforded the same autobounce angles as the USN 8" AP?

Edited by twitch133

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Because only Royal Navy ships have access to repair party below T9 (Not including Atago). If you want your New Orleans to get citadeled by every shot, then we can talk.

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I hated the Pensacola and was pleased when I was able to unlock the New Orleans. That is, until I played my first game in it. Unless I hide in hopes that some errant ship might pass by, I'm usually deleted pretty much at the start by concentrated fire because I'm in the "radar cruiser." The radar is of dubious use, with only a 9 km range and only being active for a few seconds. With the slow reload time of the 8-inch guns and the arrangement that pretty much only allows you to fire two turrets (or one if you are kiting) all you can get off during your radar time is two partial salvoes. This rarely allows one to sink a DD as, with a tier VIII ship, you are usually facing tier X DDs that are almost as tanky as your cruiser. I hear the Des Moines is good and I know that a few have posted very good games they have had in the New Orleans but I find it a much worse ship that my Cleveland. At tier VIII the Atago is much better.  

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Don't forget Edinburgh gets Minotaur heals too.

 

Atago gets heals while Mogami can't because reasons.

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25 minutes ago, dseehafer said:

 

... Because she has 8" guns with HE and uber-AP compared to Edinburgh's 6" guns that can only fire AP. Trading a bit of survivability for extra firepower is called balance. If every stat on every same-tier ship was comparable the game would be very boring.

 

Why doesn't NO have a repair party? Because none of the other American cruisers have one either... it's not an American cruiser trait, its a British cruiser trait. Why doesn't Edinburgh get super-penetrating AP rounds? Because that is an American cruiser trait, not a British cruiser trait.

 

C'mon man, this isn't rocket science.

Huh, and here I was under the mistaken impression that balance is adjusting ships so they all perform roughly comparable to each other. My bad, thanks for the info. 

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57 minutes ago, dseehafer said:

 

... Because she has 8" guns with HE and uber-AP compared to Edinburgh's 6" guns that can only fire AP. Trading a bit of survivability for extra firepower is called balance. If every stat on every same-tier ship was comparable the game would be very boring.

 

Why doesn't NO have a repair party? Because none of the other American cruisers have one either... it's not an American cruiser trait, its a British cruiser trait. Why doesn't Edinburgh get super-penetrating AP rounds? Because that is an American cruiser trait, not a British cruiser trait.

 

C'mon man, this isn't rocket science.

Except heavy pen ap isn't extra firepower, its a gimmick to try to cover the fact that, even with HE rounds is missing half the damage potential of contemporary cruisers of all nations (torpedoes&floods are significant damage sources) while missing significant amounts of armor on her turrets and barbets.

It does not compensate: American AP rounds; German AP does more damage and British torps are devastating and unpredictable. 

Atago/Takao have heals when that consumable is not available to the Mogami or earlier ijn cruisers; and unlike New Orleans they pack 10km torpedos when NOrleans gets a 9km radar with only 2 charges.

 

He has a very valid argument: the OP. New Orleans should either get her historical armor or a heal of some sort. Because AP, American or otherwise, is very situational and neither makes up to the fact that American cruisers can never cause flooding or deliver a touch if death to any ship regardless the class: torpedoes.

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1 hour ago, Zakuul said:

Like the Mogami, to survive you need to not show broadside, be situationally aware, position yourself properly and be good at dodging.

 

I fail to see the need for a heal on Noleans, if this happens it would be requested for Pensacola and so on.

 

Edit: Remember a time when things were simple? Not many gimmicks, Noleans is a OG ship.

 

mEYb4Rt.gif

 

you think angling matters in Mogami?

 

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1 hour ago, 1nv4d3rZ1m said:

Huh, and here I was under the mistaken impression that balance is adjusting ships so they all perform roughly comparable to each other. My bad, thanks for the info. 

 

You misinterpreted what I said. I said that if each and every stat of every same-tier ship was comparable that it would be boring. That is to say that all ships have the same, or comparable, firepower, the same survivability, the same AA firepower, etc...

 

I said nothing about balancing the ships as a whole to have comparable performance. Of course that is the goal. A ship with poor firepower but superb defense is just as balanced as the ship with awesome firepower but terrible defense, despite boasting polar-opposite traits. In this scenario, balance is not lost, and gameplay remains dynamic. However, if you make every ship to have, say, superb firepower and terrible defense you still have balance, but you lose the dynamic aspect of gameplay.

 

Hopefully, now you understand what I meant.

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1 hour ago, Zakuul said:

Like the Mogami, to survive you need to not show broadside, be situationally aware, position yourself properly and be good at dodging.

 

I fail to see the need for a heal on Noleans, if this happens it would be requested for Pensacola and so on.

 

Edit: Remember a time when things were simple? Not many gimmicks, Noleans is a OG ship.

I am merely disappointed by the very, VERY low HP of NO.
NO does not have a single trait that is better than the competition at T8, except turning radius.

And, as squishy as the RNCL are, Edinburgh happens to be less squishy than NO, while also having better stats in... well, just about every single category when compared to NO.

Edited by MrDeaf

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Speaking of the New Orleans. I was reading about it and found that it led quite an interesting life in WWII, participating in most of the major engagements of the Pacific Theatre. At the Battle of Tassafaronga the ship was torpedoed and had her bow and forward turret blown off. Her crew fashioned a makeshift bow of palm trees and then sailed, backwards, to Sydney, Australia where the bow was stubbed off. The crew then sailed the ship, again backwards, over 6700 nautical miles to Puget Sound in Washington State for refitting. It seems that the actual New Orleans was a bit tankier than her WOWS representation seems to be.

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11 minutes ago, dseehafer said:

 

You misinterpreted what I said. I said that if each and every stat of every same-tier ship was comparable that it would be boring. That is to say that all ships have the same, or comparable, firepower, the same survivability, the same AA firepower, etc...

 

I said nothing about balancing the ships as a whole to have comparable performance. Of course that is the goal. A ship with poor firepower but superb defense is just as balanced as the ship with awesome firepower but terrible defense, despite boasting polar-opposite traits. In this scenario, balance is not lost, and gameplay remains dynamic. However, if you make every ship to have, say, superb firepower and terrible defense you still have balance, but you lose the dynamic aspect of gameplay.

 

Hopefully, now you understand what I meant.

I completely understood what you meant you just picked a bad word, variety would be a better pick I think. You are looking for more variety of play by giving different ships different specifications balance still needs to be accomplished and that is done by adjusting the factors. Having a heal on the NO or any other tier 8 CA wouldnt hurt the variety because the Edin still has the smoke as well and its heal is special. Adding that heal to ships like the Kut might hurt balance because that ship is already very powerful and has smoke to augment its survivability. All BBs have heal and tier 9-10 CAs do as well and nobody argues its bad for the variety of that class so really arguing that heal shouldnt be added to CAs of another tier really does not hold any water. 

 

I just made me shiver a little inside to see someone argue that the NO shouldnt get something because of balance. 

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Itd be great if all the USN ships got a reaally good DCP/RP, if WG cares at all about historical accuracy, it would be completely historically accurate, it would help them offset their lack of any other kind of tools, besides guns.  Even the USN BBs have nothing but guns.  NO secondaries, no torps, meh armor and protection, but at least with a seriously amazing DCP/RP you could last awhile. 

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2 hours ago, dseehafer said:

 

... Because she has 8" guns with HE and uber-AP compared to Edinburgh's 6" guns that can only fire AP. Trading a bit of survivability for extra firepower is called balance. If every stat on every same-tier ship was comparable the game would be very boring.

 

Why doesn't NO have a repair party? Because none of the other American cruisers have one either... it's not an American cruiser trait, its a British cruiser trait. Why doesn't Edinburgh get super-penetrating AP rounds? Because that is an American cruiser trait, not a British cruiser trait.

 

C'mon man, this isn't rocket science.

 

Uh... the Baltimore and Des Moines have a heal, and the Atago has it at Tier 8.

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Playing tier 8 these days just means being bottom tier every match.  At the very least, I am of the opinion that tier 8 cruisers should get a performance boost (repair party, hitpoints, range, AA damage if against a 2-tier higher CV, or maybe some combination of these) when they are bottom tier (which will be pretty much every match, so might as well give them one).  Nothing crazy, just a bit of a bump to bring them close to the mid-tier ships in terms of competitive performance.  Being bottom tier is ok when it happens half the time; when it happens ALL the time, some sort of balancing needs to happen, IMHO.  Tier 10 being profitable plays a big part in this, IMHO; with premium time and/or camo, I have no need to play anything but 10, aside from fun or grinding.

I have been grinding tier 8 cruisers tonight, and guess what?  Out of all the matches I played over the past 4 hours, only ONE did not feature tier 10.  I have carried tier 10 matches in a tier 8 DD, and in tier 8 BBs...but I have only pulled it off in a tier 8 cruiser in one very lucky scenario, with a Mogami.

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58 minutes ago, AraAragami said:

 

 

 

you think angling matters in Mogami?

 

Yes, because I played it. :)

46 minutes ago, MrDeaf said:

I am merely disappointed by the very, VERY low HP of NO.
NO does not have a single trait that is better than the competition at T8, except turning radius.

And, as squishy as the RNCL are, Edinburgh happens to be less squishy than NO, while also having better stats in... well, just about every single category when compared to NO.

Poor armor great guns, stick with the team and position yourself and you will have great games.

 

RN CL gimmick is the heal and smoke, USN CA is just how Cruisers should be.

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Not too many T8 CVs will attack a New Orleans or ships close to it.  That is the "super power" of the New Orleans.

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27 minutes ago, Zakuul said:

Yes, because I played it. :)

Poor armor great guns, stick with the team and position yourself and you will have great games.

 

RN CL gimmick is the heal and smoke, USN CA is just how Cruisers should be.

Guns on NO are merely Okay for the tier. Nothing spectacular, but not bad either.

However, NO also has nothing else going for it to make up for the fact that it has... well, nothing really.

  • Torps? no, in fact the only T8 cruiser to not carry any torps
  • Speed? no, that goes to the French
  • Concealment? not really, aside from exceptionally bad Kutuzov and Hipper/Prinz, the other T8 have comparable concealment
  • Armor? no, Prinz and Hipper get that with 27mm everywhere
  • HP? dead last with nothing to make up for it, unlike Edinburgh
  • AA? definitely no, goes to Kutuzov and Hipper/Prinz
  • Firepower? no, goes to 155mm Mogami
  • Agility? Yes, but it's not exactly super agile either, so the advantage is minimal
  • Gimmick? Yes, Radar, but not the sole possessor of radar at T8 either.

So, from a balance perspective, New Orleans is exceptional because it is not exceptional and would join the ranks of T-22, for doing everything worse than its competition, were it not for having radar...

22 minutes ago, db4100 said:

Not too many T8 CVs will attack a New Orleans or ships close to it.  That is the "super power" of the New Orleans.

Must be dumb CVs then, because NO's AA capabilities are only good at defending itself.

In fact, other than having a lot of DFAA charges, NO's AA is very poor.

Edited by MrDeaf

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2 hours ago, GhostSwordsman said:

I'm of the mind that all tech tree T8 cruisers could do with one charge of repair party.

 

Only because of the awful, soul crushing, game destroying Matchmaking. New Orleans is very nimble if you take Rudder shift. The problem is all Tier 8 Cruisers can be instagibbed by Tier 10 ships.

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