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Labedoyere

Tier 9 Battleships get a bad rap ?

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First off....I know nothing about the British Battleships (Molotov Cocktail) line but....

I am working on the Bismark and getting close to being able to move up to Friedrich Der Grossse and have watched a few vids about it to learn about the type of ship she is and hope to outfit her. And they havent said much about her that was good at all. I get the impression that the gun cant suck enough. And from what i have read and watched about the Izumo the feeling about this ship is pretty much about the same. A lot cant stand that ship. And the Iowa also gewt slammed quite a bit. Just seems a wee bit odd that tier 9 ships that is one tier below the best of the tier ships get a lot of bad press in this game.

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Izumo is OK but it can only be a sniper, FDG is a weaker Bismarck that feels like it should be put into tier 8 the guns are similar to Bismarck's except have less range, less accuracy, and you need to turn the ship fully broadside to use them all. The other 2 ships are very strong. 

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All the tier 9 BB's are pretty well-balanced; they have their drawbacks, but none of them are gamebreakingly bad.

 

The Freddy, for all intents and purposes, is just an uparmored and gunned Bismarck. Same play style, same setup, same captain build, etc...

 

The Iowa is a good ship, even before the citadel got lowered. Best guns among the tier 9 BB's imo, very fast, although not maneuverable, great AA, good armor, crap secondaries.

 

The Izumo is probably the one that has the worst rap of them all, but it's largely outdated. The Izumo guns are great, the AA is alright, the secondaries are  pretty strong, the speed is bad, but its turning circle is good, the armor is a bit lacking, and the turret positions are a bit of a put-off, but she isn't bad.

 

Lion is broken as all [edited].

 

Missouri is better Iowa.

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There are a lot of reasons why people are down on the T9 ships. Some of it is justified by performance, some of it is psychological, and some of it is just plain subjective taste. They're all workable, but they also come off as slightly-crappy versions of their Tier 10 selves.

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after the citadel buff(lowering), iowa is better than FDG or izumo by a fair amount

i finish my iowa grind the week before the patch when it was buffed, and my 3 T9 BBs average iowa(73k), izumo(65k), and FDG(53k)

 

iowa was known for its super high citadel and weak side armour, T10 CAs used to be able to get into an iowa's citadel anywhere within 5km, not the case anymore

iowa now pretty much has no significant weakness, but the best guns

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I know it will get better once I plop on the 420mm and FCS however Freddy so far has been:

 

giphy.gif

 

Meanwhile Roon well let me just say:

 

giphy.gif

Edited by SparvieroVV

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Just now, SparvieroVV said:

I know it will get better once I plop on the 420mm and FCS however Freddy so far has been:

 

giphy.gif

 

Doest feel any different upgraded for me, I just don't get along with the ship I believe.

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2 minutes ago, SparvieroVV said:

I know it will get better once I plop on the 420mm and FCS however Freddy so far has been:

 

giphy.gif

 

Meanwhile Roon well let me just say:

 

giphy.gif

 

Accurate gifs are accurate

 

I had little to no issue with the Freddy after I got the 420's... Izumo is still lacking compared to the rest... and well Mushashi incoming.

Edited by bewbs_

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8 minutes ago, Akeno017 said:

I would disagree, basically the same.

getting radared by a battleship sucks

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16 minutes ago, Akeno017 said:

I would disagree, basically the same.

 

I have both and Missouri is way better. Every mission I make use of the the radar, and it gives me kills and captures. The better front citadel might have also protected me against plenty of citadels. There is no way this ship is balanced for tier 9 in comparison to Iowa. Hard to decide if its better than Montana or not, really.

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18 minutes ago, Akeno017 said:

I would disagree, basically the same.

 

Radar being on a BB, for sure it's harder to use because Missouri just doesn't sneak around like Baltimore, Des Moines.  It's just very nice assurance for the team, and something every stealth boat has to account for.  Also Radar on a platform that doesn't get deleted instantly like a Cruiser has its use, especially when it needs to be muscled in.

 

Gameplay-wise, minus the radar, it's the same between the two.  Not accounting for the money printer on MO of course.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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23 minutes ago, SparvieroVV said:

I know it will get better once I plop on the 420mm and FCS however Freddy so far has been:

I didn't "enjoy" playing the Freddy, cause the guns always felt like they were letting me down, but statistically I did a pretty great job with her. It really awards an aggressive brawling play style, something that, as a cruiser main, I generally didn't feel comfortable doing. Took me a while to realize that I won't eat a dev strike through the bow...

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In aggregate, I'm much better at T9 BBs than in T8s or T10s.  Go figure.

 

That said, after 258 games in the Biz, I'm running 56% WR

After 153 in the Gross...56% WR.

 

Hence, based on my experience, the Biz is to T8 what the Gross is to T9.

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I think when you get to T8 and win immunity from overmatch by battleships while still seeing T6-T7 BB's you can hammer it feels like a big step.

T8-T9 means you only see T7 BB's to bully, and see Yamato more frequently. Yay?

 

The Iowa was and is a difficult ship to exploit, the Izumo is the worst of the high tier IJN BB and FdG struggles to - the same secondaries as Scharnhorst but 2 tiers higher seeing better fire resistance from T10's and being unable to penetrate much if anything with your 105mm guns? Boo. Lion's apparently solid but Conq draws all the flak.

 

 

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Tier 9 BBs in a lot of ways dont really improve on their tier 8 predecessor and are caught between two tier with strong BBs so they just dont feel as strong. Plus for at least two of the lines the ships are much less agile and more vulnerable to getting punished by bad positioning so the is some real adjustment that has to be made to perform. 

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5 minutes ago, 1nv4d3rZ1m said:

Tier 9 BBs in a lot of ways dont really improve on their tier 8 predecessor and are caught between two tier with strong BBs so they just dont feel as strong. Plus for at least two of the lines the ships are much less agile and more vulnerable to getting punished by bad positioning so the is some real adjustment that has to be made to perform. 

 

So the power creep with the Lion was intentional then?

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I'll give my opinion having played 2 of those Tier 9's and been against the others.

Izumo is by far the worst of the tier 9's for 3 main reasons.

A. The armor layout at the aft, if you're ever forced to turn out and egress away, the barn doors on her aft are a guaranteed citadel by any tier 7+ BB including 14'' guns.

B. You go from great TDS in Amagi to a really poor one at tier 9 with a slower ship, a far worse rudder and turn radius and a larger platform. This means Carriers love to focus you as you have the worst tier 9 AA protection, even with C hull you might down 2-3 TB's out of the incoming 12 from that tier 9/10 IJN Carrier.

C. You have the worst detection range of all tier 9 BB's and a deck made of Kerosene. Even with CE and Module you still have a 14km detection range. This means every Kutuzov and HE spammer will focus you. Considering that a lot of players usually only take one or the other with concealment, it means 90% of the time you see the Izumo before all the other tier 9 bb's and this means it gets focused easily.

Iowa is the second best with the citadel rework and in some ways better than Lion

A. It has around a 12km detection range with CE and Module, this allows you to sneak up and dip off from targets between shots easily. This also makes you a less likely target from Air attack as well as being focused if you position accordingly. You also have the best AA of the tier 9 BB's which helps out a lot against the near insta-delete ability of tier 9/10 CV's which if they know how to play can wreck you heavily. Many of them will watch and wait for the HE spammers to clear your AA guns and come to finish you off.

B. You are the fastest tier 9 BB meaning if things go wrong you can drop out of detection and reposition quickly. This ship also has the best flex power to move across the map to support a falling flank. That really helps to get to the action.

C. The guns are very accurate and the slight hang with the shots gives great deck hits at long range which gives you a better chance at citadeling a GER BB.

 

Overall, the Izumo has a bad rep because it's well deserved. The ships armor layout and TDS coupled with it's detection range and very large empty spaced hull makes it for a vessel that takes serious damage from all over and the player base knows it so it gets focused easily and quickly to remove it from the match. Basically when you take the Izumo out, the player base thinks free XP floating.

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The Tier 9s are all quite decent from what I can tell, with the Izumo possibly as the exception. 

 

I think the issue is they don't feel like a big step up from the Tier 8s, and the Tier 10s feel like a satisfactory step up, just like from 7 to 8.

 

The Iowa and North Carolina are really similar for instance, with the Iowa gaining extra speed and AA in return for being more sluggish, but at least her torpedo belt is decent instead of utter fantasy.

 

The Amagi is a bit more rough because the layout of the ships is so different. Combine that with pretty meh armor, and a crazy bad concealment range and it's understandable why players don't like her. On the othet hand, her guns are way more powerful than she gets credit for.

 

The step up from the Bismarck isn't all that bad, but going from a famous and very effective Tier 8 ship to a fantasy ship with meh accuracy isn't all that appealing, especially since you'll see maps where secondary builds are far less useful.

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I have played them all...

Freddie is schizo. Some people love it, some people like me hated it because of games where you'd put down 40 hits for .... 30k damage because the guns are so unreliable, the AP just shattering instead of damaging. The secondaries are great, play it just like Bismarck.

Iowa is a fantastic ship now. It was always good, the high citadel notwithstanding, if you played it with a fluid playstyle and were careful about your side. But Iowa is probably the worst-played ship in the game, hardly ever played properly, I've noticed, which is the root of its meh stats. People come up to it from the bow-tanking N Carolina and then bow tank Iowa, but a bow-tanking Iowa is a dead Iowa. Iowa has to be kept moving.


Izumo I played before it got all the buffs, 200 games in Coop. Old Izumo was garbage. With the buffs its not a bad ship and the guns are excellent. I just hate the bow tanking playstyle, finding myself constantly out of position. Because it bow tanks, Izumos tend to attract lots of attention from fire-spammers.

 

Lion is stupidly broken. The HE is absurd, and the AP is death on cruisers. Angled it shrugs off damage from everything except Yammy. The best of the bunch: keep it moving, spam out HE and AP, rack up huge damage.

 

Edited by Taichunger

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4 hours ago, NeoRussia said:

 

I have both and Missouri is way better. Every mission I make use of the the radar, and it gives me kills and captures. The better front citadel might have also protected me against plenty of citadels. There is no way this ship is balanced for tier 9 in comparison to Iowa. Hard to decide if its better than Montana or not, really.

The front bulkhead armor only protects against broadside shells that come in and bounce off it, it's too thin to defend against shells that punch through the bow so that's negligable at best, otherwise there is no possible way it's even remotely the same level as monty due to monty having a better AA armament, better armor values, better broadside weight and only really being weaker in terms of speed. 

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1 hour ago, Raptor_alcor said:

The front bulkhead armor only protects against broadside shells that come in and bounce off it, it's too thin to defend against shells that punch through the bow so that's negligable at best, otherwise there is no possible way it's even remotely the same level as monty due to monty having a better AA armament, better armor values, better broadside weight and only really being weaker in terms of speed. 

 

the front bulkhead does what its designed for, help you angle against Yamato shells. It protects the exact spot a Yamato will would shoot. 3 guns is a very good trade-off for USN radar.

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19 hours ago, NeoRussia said:

 

I have both and Missouri is way better. Every mission I make use of the the radar, and it gives me kills and captures. The better front citadel might have also protected me against plenty of citadels. There is no way this ship is balanced for tier 9 in comparison to Iowa. Hard to decide if its better than Montana or not, really.

I also have both, and played the @>{! out of them, as well as Montana. Personally I find little use for radar in my Missouri and would probably switch it out for spotter plane if I could. I have no idea how you consider a clone of a ship, with the exception of a gimmick consumable, so overpowered vs. Iowa, although I do personally agree that Montana seems more like a side-grade, additional armor and turret in return for less speed and turning, which is partially my argument for T9 Musashi being viable with little changes. T9 ships, with some notable exceptions are very similar to their T10 companions.

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Izumo and Freddy are definitely lacking in comparison to Iowa/Missouri/Lion. Izumo would be alright but her concealment, speed, agility, and armor scheme in general make her a lot squishier than Amagi felt. Freddy's got crap guns and is barely an improvement over Bismarck at all, only really gaining a better hydro. Iowa/Missouri on the other hand are amazing ships now, a straight upgrade over North Carolina and gaining new tricks in the form of a 33 knot max speed. It's a BIG plus for me, I love the flexibility. And Missouri just improves on the Iowa even more, with the radar that shouldn't exist for that ship.

Monarch to Lion is...well...I think everyone knows that's a massive upgrade.

Izumo was a massive pain for me personally, I absolutely hated the dispersion on those guns. The Iowa/Missouri guns are ridiculously deadly, the Izumo guns aren't even close.

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20 hours ago, SparvieroVV said:

I know it will get better once I plop on the 420mm and FCS however Freddy so far has been:

 

giphy.gif

 

Meanwhile Roon well let me just say:

 

giphy.gif

 

Yep, 8" gunned KBerg. What's not to like?

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