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KalishniKat

The Ethics Of a CV Player

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Sometimes I question the ethics of those who play CVs. You play a game where you pick and choose your targets, you can choose any target you want...something other ships can't do. You can attack the targets with weakest AA. You can do all of this while safe from repercussions or harm from other players. The target you pick is helpless against your attacks, aside from downing a few planes which doesn't affect your HP at all. All the other players are on the same interface, that of a shooter while you operate in an RTS format. It's seems like it's a dirty little pleasure for these guys to sit back, unharmed and crap all over the games of others. I guess for some folks it's a thrill to damage other people from a nice safe place, knowing the target you sink has no chance of returning the favor so to speak.  I have a hard time respecting the mindset that goes into such gameplay.  DDs risk detection, risk getting blown up as they use stealth to approach their target. Even BB babies can get hit by other BBs, but CVs have no real enemy except other CVs.  Wish they'd just cancel each other out at the start  of the game and let the rest of us get on with fighting each other. 

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I'll tell ya, I bought a Shokaku during a sale thinking i'd be wracking up damage in no time. Net result? I suck. First off I probably shouldn't of bought a T8 as when you're uptiered your planes get shredded from the AA leaps at 8/9/10, and even when top tier micro managing is far more difficult than just driving and shooting.

 

You need to worry about your carriers positioning trying to stay as close to the action without ever actually being spotted, spotting for your team (thankless nearly full time job that nets you basically nothing), protecting your planes, protecting your teammates, then finally locating targets of opportunity and trying to torp and bomb while not losing track of all the former. All of this and still dealing with the same potatoes you get in any other ship.

 

Sound easy to you?

Edited by ksix
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Ethics,errm, what...?

34 minutes ago, KalishniKat said:

It's seems like it's a dirty little pleasure for these guys to sit back, unharmed and crap all over the games of others

This has some truth, there is a sadistic sense of pleasure at punishing stupidity which a CV player sees happening, all the time, in every game, far more objectively than other players. From our God's eye view (someone called me God in game today, actually he said "our CV is GOD!", poor lost soul..), we see mistakes and take advantage of them far more efficiently than the average BB driver. 

34 minutes ago, KalishniKat said:

Even BB babies can get hit by other BBs, but CVs have no real enemy except other CVs. 

This on the other hand is nonsense. CVs fear all types of enemy ships, we have a huge detection radius, and are especially vulnerable to dds.

Call us evil, fine we agree, call us God (I like that, ...) but don't call us invulnerable! That is your mistake, a mistake we CV drivers will happilly exploit.

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8 minutes ago, Aduial said:

Let me guess - you don't play carriers.

I don't and I will never play them until they're fixed. I really don't understand why people still want to play this stupidly broken class.

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Just now, AT_Velos said:

I don't and I will never play them until they're fixed. I really don't understand why people still want to play this stupidly broken class.

Broken, yes - but not in the way you think. 

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You can pick and choose your targets as a CV but you better be discerning as several ships can wreak havoc on your squadrons. I have two ships that will decimate any squadron that gets within six kilometers and they are the North Carolina and Cleveland. Also, if you think you can loiter fighters around a Lexington CV or one higher up than good luck as their AA itself is usually sufficient to destroy a single squadron. If weaker ships succumb to CVs it's their own fault for not realizing their AA limitations and sticking close to an AA ship or at least traveling in groups.

 

Also, CVs have very long loading times, which is more reason to be discerning with your squadrons Loose all your planes and your team might as well have you afk for nearly a minute while you prepare and launch new squadrons.

 

CVs routinely fall to ships other than CVs. In the last several games I played, the CVs were all taken out by ship fire. Sure, you can run your CV off to the far corner of the map and keep it relatively safe but those long travel distances for your planes cuts down your attack time even further. Getting close enough to the battle to do your job well also puts you in potential danger.

 

CVs are good in expert hands but hardly OP for the majority of people who play them. 

Edited by Snargfargle
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1 minute ago, Snargfargle said:

CVs are good in expert hands but hardly OP for the majority of people who play them. 

Oh quite, only expert players with unfathomeable skill get good results with CVs, no point click and sink mechanics, oh no, nothing like that :Smile_hiding:

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IRL WW2 naval battles were dominated by aircraft, with carriers over the horizon. The battle off Samar was the first time a USN carrier came under shellfire. 

 

Aircraft were a thing. If players adopted formations to layer AA the CVs would be less effective. Teamwork

 

Ethics doesn't come into play

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11 minutes ago, ksix said:

I'll tell ya, I bought a Shokaku during a sale thinking i'd be wracking up damage in no time. Net result? I suck. First off I probably shouldn't of bought a T8 as when you're uptiered your planes get shredded from the AA leaps at 8/9/10, and even when top tier micro managing is far more difficult than just driving and shooting.

 

You need to worry about your carriers positioning trying to stay as close to the action without ever actually being spotted, spotting for your team (thankless nearly full time job that nets you basically nothing), protecting your planes, protecting your teammates, then finally locating targets of opportunity and trying to torp and bomb while not losing track of all the former. All of this and still dealing with the same potatoes you get in any other ship.

 

Sound easy to you?

Well, aircraft HP vs. AA scaling through tiers is absolutely broken and retarded right now, so there's that.

Totally ineffective as T8CV in T8-10 game, but T8CV in T6-8 game causes the CV to be overly effective.

And then when it is a 2CV game, the lower tier CV cannot do much against the higher tier CV, especially if it is a T5/6 match, where the T5 CV does not have manual drop, but the T6 CV does.

or how you can end up facing a Saipan in a Bogue?

YA OKAY WG, WUT U SNIFFIN?

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1 minute ago, nuttybiscuit said:

Oh quite, only expert players with unfathomeable skill get good results with CVs, no point click and sink mechanics, oh no, nothing like that :Smile_hiding:

You can get decent results by using the point and click interface but you can get amazing results if you know how to alt-click. Knowing how to lock and strafe is especially devastating to fighter squadrons. I'm not very good at this, which is why I'm an average CV player but I've seen my opponents simply run circles around me and other CV players if they knew what they were doing.  

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4 minutes ago, Destroyer_Suzukaze said:

IRL WW2 naval battles were dominated by aircraft, with carriers over the horizon. The battle off Samar was the first time a USN carrier came under shellfire. 

 

Aircraft were a thing. If players adopted formations to layer AA the CVs would be less effective. Teamwork

 

Ethics doesn't come into play

Okay, so can I get like... you know, a ring of 12 friendly DDs and 6 Cruisers and at least 2 Iowas to encircle my CV when I play?

It only makes sense, if we are going to play World of Carriers.

Edited by MrDeaf

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1 minute ago, Destroyer_Suzukaze said:

WW2 naval battles were dominated by aircraft

You mean battles with a Moskva and a Kurfurst against a Khabarovsk and all these bombed by a historical Hakuryu?

Is this our WW2 naval battle in this game?

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For me it's quite simple.

 

I don't select the target that has the weakest AA, unless I have nothing else to strike.

 

My main goal is to strike those ships that threaten my team directly, in the ideal case my team also communicates which ship that is. If a flank is almost collapsing, my next strike wave goes there and will make sure that one of the enemy ships there will either sink or get forced to retreat. I mean I could also strike that one lone battleship that wants to protect the spawn, but of what use would that be for my team?

 

Second priority are smoke screens, if I see a ship smoking up (or a ship entering a smokescreen) I will torp the smokescreen. As long as the smoke mechanics are broken, I don't see a reason for letting those ships abuse these mechanics and will either flush them out or make them play some torpedo beats.

 

Third priority are just random ships that decided to play without their team. If you decide to walk alone in this game, you have no justification for complaining when you get overpowered.

 

 

I think that my first two priorities are enough justification for me to not feel bad at all. 

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I mean I guess that's one way to spin things.  I see CV's as offering more cerebral gameplay.  There is a lot of inherent game knowledge required to be half decent like how long smoke screens last, how quickly certain DD's can stop, the turning radius of CA's, DFAA timers, how skills and mods affect loading screen AA stats, the spotting range of allied ships, and the list goes on.

 

Do I really care how many seconds the US BB DCP lasts in the Ibuki, no I'm just going to keep slinging HE.  Do I really care about the deceleration rate of a DD, no because I know I will have several chances to shoot at them before they slow down enough for their smoke to overtake them.  Do I care about how well the enemy CA turns, not really.  Even if I miss the second salvo will be that much more accurate, and even then I don't have to aim perfectly.  Dispersion will sling a few shells here and there and I am bound to get a hit.  

 

In a CV I do care.  If I see a smoke screen being generated, I'm not going to hover my planes over it pointlessly for a minute, if I see a DD smoking and slowing down I can guesstimate that they will stop at x point and have reversed to y point by the time the torpedoes reach that area, I know that if I am dropping against a CA that has a fast rudder shift and can turn well it is better to just setup an auto crossdrop rather than trying to manual drop them.

 

It's not about damage and being safe in the CV, it is how to gain control and win games.  If I truly wanted to, I could just fly my bombers on the edge of the map and wait 8 minutes and hit an isolated BB, but that's not how you win games.  You win games by forcing the enemy into non ideal situations.  Being air spotted is not ideal in a DD, having to maneuver from air torps in CA displaces you and leaves you open to BB fire, having to use DCP on DB fires in a BB makes you less likely to push because you lack the DCP. 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, MrDeaf said:

Okay, so can I get like... you know, a ring of 12 friendly DDs and 6 Cruisers and at least 2 Iowas to encircle my CV when I play?

It only makes sense, if we are going to play World of Carriers.

Go ahead, intentionally misconstrue what I said. Iowas though were purpose built to provide AA for CVs. 

 

Aircraft were the dominant factor in naval combat in the 40s-50s. Just a fact.

3 minutes ago, AT_Velos said:

You mean battles with a Moskva and a Kurfurst against a Khabarovsk and all these bombed by a historical Hakuryu?

Is this our WW2 naval battle in this game?

Nice strawman. 

 

Like I said, aircraft were the dominant factor in naval combat. Very few battles didn't see them as a major influence. Battle of  the Java Sea a notable exception. If you want to dislike carriers I could care less, just saying there is nothing wrong with them morally or ethically. 

 

And I don't play them either

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@KalishniKat Stop playing low tier battleships with crap AA man.  Like tier 8 and up or get a Cleveland spec it for AA.  If not you will get rekt over and over again especially at tier 4,5, and 6.  That will never change or just quit all together.

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14 minutes ago, Destroyer_Suzukaze said:

Go ahead, intentionally misconstrue what I said. Iowas though were purpose built to provide AA for CVs. 

 

Aircraft were the dominant factor in naval combat in the 40s-50s. Just a fact.

Nice strawman. 

 

Like I said, aircraft were the dominant factor in naval combat. Very few battles didn't see them as a major influence. Battle of  the Java Sea a notable exception. If you want to dislike carriers I could care less, just saying there is nothing wrong with them morally or ethically. 

 

And I don't play them either

I'm just saying, CVs in WW2 almost never participated in direct combat, where they would come under direct shell fire, but they were targeted by subs and bombers.

For all intents and purposes, CVs in WoWs could be replaced by player controlled off-map air strikes from air bases and there would be zero difference in game play.

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Aduial is right, it is not as easy as you think. They still need some fixes, but go get a carrier and let us know how easy it is to rule the seas :)

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Sure you can pick any target, as long as the target doesn't have DF and isn't in some kind of AA bubble. And even then you still might not be able to target him. Try targeting an AA NC with Hiryu/Shokaku; it ain't happening.

 

A CV's HP is equivalent to how many planes it still has

Edited by CarefreeTongue

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14 minutes ago, CarefreeTongue said:

Sure you can pick any target, as long as the target doesn't have DF and isn't in some kind of AA bubble. And even then you still might not be able to target him. Try targeting an AA NC with Hiryu/Shokaku; it ain't happening.

 

A CV's HP is equivalent to how many planes it still has

And then, when you have a Taiho, it will blast through AA NC like it didn't exist and unload 12 torps into the side.

oh, and it'll drop some 6 or 8 bombs on top of that.

The balance is just absurd.

Edited by MrDeaf
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3 minutes ago, MrDeaf said:

And then, when you have a Taiho, it will blast through AA NC like it didn't exist and unload 12 torps into the side.

oh, and it'll drop some 6 or 8 bombs on top of that.

The balance is just absurd.

That would be a huge case of learn to wasd

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Just now, MrDeaf said:

And then, when you have a Taiho, it will blast through AA NC like it didn't exist and unload 12 torps into the side.

The balance is just absurd.

An AA NC can just sail away to make your attack angles worse and force you to lose an entire squad and more just to get your planes around the rear. We're not even factoring any other ships nearby, particularly the ones with high base AA and/or DF.

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To CVs, the rest of his team is just fodder. CV does whatever it wants and basically plays with themselves.

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1 hour ago, MrDeaf said:

I'm just saying, CVs in WW2 almost never participated in direct combat, where they would come under direct shell fire, but they were targeted by subs and bombers.

 

While very few CVs were sunk by naval gunfire during WWII, quite a few were sunk by submarines. Since WOWS has no submarines, DDs sort of take up this role. I've sunk several CVs with DDs.

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