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OldFrog75

Advancing up the tiers?

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I know any player can play this game any way they want but I'm pretty sure veteran players would just as soon new players develop a modicum of proficiency before moving up into their bathtub(s).  (I realize Seal Clubbers probably welcome the unskilled advancing as quickly as possible but that's a different topic).

 

What is an "acceptable" win rate (or some other metric) for a player to advance up the tiers?  How successful should a new player be to move from Tier I to Tier II to Tier III, etc.?

 

I was taught when I started in WoT to stay in a tier until I could carry my weight (top 6 out of 15 players on a team in damage and/or XP) 70% of the time.  Is there a similar convention or common wisdom in WoWS?

Edited by OldFrog75

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I am willing to bet there are as many answers to this as there are players. I also think the initial new player restriction is about right.  Personally, I push to the next ship as quickly as I can.  Then I try it out in PvE a couple of times.  If it is an uncomfortable/painful experience, I leave the new ship in port and drop back to the preceding ship in Randoms.  I will play the new ship in PvE until I feel comfortable with how it plays and then give it a try in Randoms.  If my Random play feels potato, I go back to skill development.  For instance, I used the Anniversary event to finally get my first two tier 10s: Minotaur and Des Moines.  I will be practicing with them for a while in PvE and working my 8's and 9's in Randoms for a bit before taking them out into Randoms regularly.

 

While I try to be responsible for my performance and not drag down high tier players with poor game play, I wouldn't appreciate an external restriction on what tier I could play.  Especially if it was based on a parameter that could be affected by many variables.  While I agree WR reflects the overall abilities of a player, it also has ups and downs.  I was running at 63% for several weeks and then dropped to the low 40's (or worse - it was game-quitting bad for a couple of days) for a couple of weeks.  Now it is climbing back to my new level, which is probably low to mid fifties on average.

 

If there had been a WR restriction in place, I would not have been able to play some of my ships during the statistical trough.  That would have been very irritating, as well as preventing me from climbing back.  It may cause me to wonder what my team mates are up to, but I accept the concept of Random for what it is and roll with it.  For better, or worse...

Edited by ExploratorOne

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Acceptable is only if you are having fun and try your best in battle.

Win Rate:  Here's a fact -- It's determined more WHEN and WHAT you play rather than how much fun you are having.

So to maintain that blue-ish color, you must stick to the OP ships, and play them when the population is just the right mix.

Play your fast-firing mean machines when the teen-aged kids are in school - since their reaction times are lightning fast.

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Hazarding a guess that you have just moved into PVP from PVE. As you may have noticed human players are somewhat less predictable than the bots. Perhaps look at improving your random play before moving up. Start with things like map awareness (always enlarge your minimap to max), get used to predicting enemy actions. Look to up your damage output (guessing enemy moves helps). Once you can hold your own look to move up. Don't look at your random win rate until you have many more battles under your belt, it will fluctuate like a go go dancer on speed to start with but check your average damage for improvements. If you don't already know about it Warships Today carries a range of stats in an manner easy to digest, https://na.warships.today/player/1025104878/OldFrog75 If you hover over the numbers you get a pop up giving sever average and trend figures for comparison.

When you get a new ship it's common practice to play a few PVE games to get used to the handling, gun handling etc.

Short answer move up when you are comfortable.

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50 minutes ago, dangerhamster said:

 Perhaps look at improving your random play before moving up. Look to up your damage output (guessing enemy moves helps). Once you can hold your own look to move up. Don't look at your random win rate until you have many more battles under your belt, it will fluctuate like a go go dancer on speed to start with but check your average damage for improvements. 

Short answer move up when you are comfortable.

I'm in no hurry to move up. I'd play 500 battles in Tier I if that's what it takes.   Just curious what level of proficiency most players would say is required to move up a tier (any tier) and make a positive contribution to your team rather than be the Tomato all the rude maniacs insult, berate, denigrate, and tell to uninstall at the drop of a hat.

Edited by OldFrog75

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1 hour ago, AVR_Project said:

Acceptable is only if you are having fun and try your best in battle.

Win Rate:  Here's a fact -- It's determined more WHEN and WHAT you play rather than how much fun you are having.

So to maintain that blue-ish color, you must stick to the OP ships, and play them when the population is just the right mix.

Play your fast-firing mean machines when the teen-aged kids are in school - since their reaction times are lightning fast.

Yeah no.... That's a bit biased. For one playing "better" ships doesn't help WTR, as WTR is determined against the average stats of the ship, not against a set number. As for winrate, sure if you only play the Nikolai or something over and over it'll be high but the same can't be said for your WTR.

I play whatever I feel like playing at whatever time I happen to be online and my blue number holds....

You simply increase your winrate by playing the objective and doing your role for the team. Even the worse ships are capable of that. And you get better at that with practice. It's a completely unfair generalization to claim that everyone with decent stats only plays "overpowered" ships at specific times.... Especially to the extremely skilled uncium players that manage to top score games in practically every ship in the game at any time of the day.

3 hours ago, OldFrog75 said:

I know any player can play this game any way they want but I'm pretty sure veteran players would just as soon new players develop a modicum of proficiency before moving up into their bathtub(s).  (I realize Seal Clubbers probably welcome the unskilled advancing as quickly as possible but that's a different topic).

 

What is an "acceptable" win rate (or some other metric) for a player to advance up the tiers?  How successful should a new player be to move from Tier I to Tier II to Tier III, etc.?

 

I was taught when I started in WoT to stay in a tier until I could carry my weight (top 6 out of 15 players on a team in damage and/or XP) 70% of the time.  Is there a similar convention or common wisdom in WoWS?

Honestly, as a new player you should try and move up off the low tiers quickly. The lower tiers are good for getting the game mechanics and controls down but they lack the complexity of higher tier battles. If you play 5000 battles in a tier 2 ship you will be so lost when you play a tier 8 battle.

 

Now, that's not to say you should rush tier 10, not a good idea either. Try and get up to say tier 5, great place to practice. You'll face a good range of tiers and player skill levels while using a ship of decent capability. For winrate, just try for above 50% in your preferred ship, then expand from there. Don't focus too much on the all-time winrate, as it does take weight from earlier battles when you're extremely new and not doing well yet. Don't move up a tier if you're doing terribly, chances are it'll only be worse in the next tier because of stronger enemy ships. Stay at the tier and practice, watch youtube videos and replays of that ship, etc, until you start doing decently. Now, granted there's the exception of certain ships being just terrible and those should probably be skipped, but they're few in number. There is a very large difference between a bad ship and a ship that just takes practice to play well. Once you feel confident in your ship, go ahead and buy the next tier. Don't expect to immediately be good at a T6 just because you were amazing at a T5, each ship does play a bit differently and you're now facing tougher opponents.

 

However, one thing I want to stress, do not focus completely on stats early on. You will get better over time, if you only worry about stats you will not have any fun. And one more thing, win rate isn't the most accurate measure of how you do. Potato teams happen, sometimes constantly. I personally prefer to use WTR, as it takes into account how you did each match, not just whether you won or not.

 

TLDR: T5 is a good spot to hang around and practice, WTR is typically a better measurement than winrate, don't worry too much about stats early on, and practice practice practice, you will improve.

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I am not sure if its anyone's providence to tell you what tier to play. I certainly do not play this of any other game for someone else's enjoyment but my own. I am an awful player. If I waited to tell I became proficient to play a tier WG would have to make negative tier numbers (might get to ten that way). Some of the community are snobbish and basically elitist. Don't let them make you sad. There are also wonderful people here who enjoy helping even the unredeemable like myself. I am fortunate that I am not real proficient at English and it takes time for me to decipher this difficult language. so I don't understand there insults and obscenities often. Look for the good and that is what you find. The evil is always there to ignore them. Tanoshimu 楽しむ OldFog75-san


 

 
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3 hours ago, MzFortune said:

I am not sure if its anyone's providence to tell you what tier to play. I certainly do not play this of any other game for someone else's enjoyment but my own. I am an awful player. If I waited to tell I became proficient to play a tier WG would have to make negative tier numbers (might get to ten that way). Some of the community are snobbish and basically elitist. Don't let them make you sad. There are also wonderful people here who enjoy helping even the unredeemable like myself. I am fortunate that I am not real proficient at English and it takes time for me to decipher this difficult language. so I don't understand there insults and obscenities often. Look for the good and that is what you find. The evil is always there to ignore them. Tanoshimu 楽しむ OldFog75-san



 


 

Thanks... :Smile_honoring:

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3 hours ago, MzFortune said:

I am not sure if its anyone's providence to tell you what tier to play. I certainly do not play this of any other game for someone else's enjoyment but my own. I am an awful player. If I waited to tell I became proficient to play a tier WG would have to make negative tier numbers (might get to ten that way). Some of the community are snobbish and basically elitist. Don't let them make you sad. There are also wonderful people here who enjoy helping even the unredeemable like myself. I am fortunate that I am not real proficient at English and it takes time for me to decipher this difficult language. so I don't understand there insults and obscenities often. Look for the good and that is what you find. The evil is always there to ignore them. Tanoshimu 楽しむ OldFog75-san



 


 

Spoken Like a True Quality Potato!

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Maybe so KongoPride, but I know my place in life. I cannot help my betters but will help who I can. 

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2 hours ago, MzFortune said:

Maybe so KongoPride, but I know my place in life. I cannot help my betters but will help who I can. 

 

try not to make eyecontact with it. it might go away on its own! \o/

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SinisterSe7en-san, I don't understand? sorry, my fault. Do not understand English as well as I should. Gomen'nasai 

あなたは 
話す 
日本語

 

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I know it's not a good idea to become hyper-focused on stats like WR, particularly as a new player but after 60 Random Battles my overall WR is now less than 40%.  Given my chance to be placed on a winning team ought to be about the same as drawing a losing team I must be doing something really wrong.

 

I don't Yolo. I routinely ask for help at the start and try to stay with a group.  I do get trapped sometimes into thinking I'm pursuing a single enemy around an island or iceberg only to get ambushed by 3 enemy ships and killed.  All of that aside, shouldn't my teams still win about as often as they lose with or without any help from me?  Given they don't, the only common denominator in these games is me and my apparent lousy play.  :Smile_amazed:

 

If I go totally passive and hang around the back disengaged for most of the game then win or lose I get no damage so that can't be the answer either.

 

I've searched YouTube for guidance but haven't been able to find many training videos (1 so far) on how to win in Tier I and although much better than nothing, it didn't really deal with strategy and what I can do to turn this around.

Edited by OldFrog75

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On 10/1/2017 at 1:23 PM, Speedstang said:

Honestly, as a new player you should try and move up off the low tiers quickly. The lower tiers are good for getting the game mechanics and controls down but they lack the complexity of higher tier battles. If you play 5000 battles in a tier 2 ship you will be so lost when you play a tier 8 battle.

This is what I mentioned the other day.  I spent quite a bit of time at tiers 4/6 before moving up higher.  I don't feel like tiers 1/3 represent the game play you will experience as you progress - which is the same way I feel about WoT...

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2 hours ago, OldFrog75 said:

I know it's not a good idea to become hyper-focused on stats like WR, particularly as a new player but after 60 Random Battles my overall WR is now less than 40%.  Given my chance to be placed on a winning team ought to be about the same as drawing a losing team I must be doing something really wrong.

 

I don't Yolo. I routinely ask for help at the start and try to stay with a group.  I do get trapped sometimes into thinking I'm pursuing a single enemy around an island or iceberg only to get ambushed by 3 enemy ships and killed.  All of that aside, shouldn't my teams still win about as often as they lose with or without any help from me?  Given they don't, the only common denominator in these games is me and my apparent lousy play.  :Smile_amazed:

 

If I go totally passive and hang around the back disengaged for most of the game then win or lose I get no damage so that can't be the answer either.

 

I've searched YouTube for guidance but haven't been able to find many training videos (1 so far) on how to win in Tier I and although much better than nothing, it didn't really deal with strategy and what I can do to turn this around.

Don't hang around tier 1, it's nothing like the rest of the tiers. Tier 1 is essentially just almost identical ships with very low hp and pea shooters. It's more or less just a way to learn how to move around and shoot. The skill ceiling is EXTREMELY low at tier 1, as there's very little 1 ship can do and there's no diversity at all, it's not your fault. Make your way up to tier 2 and then tier 3 and tier 4, a decent range to start off and begin learning the role of each ship class. There are tons of tutorial videos, even for specific ships, once you start going up the tiers.

 

Don't go into tier 5 until you feel like you understand the basics of your class and can do decently. T5 is where protected matching ends. Protected matchmaking means that at most you can only see a ship 1 tier higher. So as a tier 2 ship, you will never see a tier 4 ship, and as a tier 4, you will never see a tier 6. Once you go to tier 5 you will be matched against tier 7 ships though.

 

However, don't hang around forever down in protected tiers, you don't need to be a full-on unicum to move up, you only need to understand your role and play however you feel is decent. The real game takes place without protected matchmaking, so you do want to get in there and learn to play there. For now though, just get yourself a tier 2 and start moving on up. If you try a ship class and don't like it, don't hesitate to try a different class or a different nation, each line plays very differently.

 

Also, a suggestion, once you start moving up, check out the youtuber iChaseGaming, he has a series called naval academy, which is really informative and useful for learning different aspects of the game.

Edited by Speedstang

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30 minutes ago, Speedstang said:

Don't hang around tier 1, it's nothing like the rest of the tiers. Tier 1 is essentially just almost identical ships with very low hp and pea shooters. It's more or less just a way to learn how to move around and shoot. The skill ceiling is EXTREMELY low at tier 1, as there's very little 1 ship can do and there's no diversity at all, it's not your fault. Make your way up to tier 2 and then tier 3 and tier 4, a decent range to start off and begin learning the role of each ship class. There are tons of tutorial videos, even for specific ships, once you start going up the tiers.

 

Don't go into tier 5 until you feel like you understand the basics of your class and can do decently. T5 is where protected matching ends. Protected matchmaking means that at most you can only see a ship 1 tier higher. So as a tier 2 ship, you will never see a tier 4 ship, and as a tier 4, you will never see a tier 6. Once you go to tier 5 you will be matched against tier 7 ships though.

 

However, don't hang around forever down in protected tiers, you don't need to be a full-on unicum to move up, you only need to understand your role and play however you feel is decent. The real game takes place without protected matchmaking, so you do want to get in there and learn to play there. For now though, just get yourself a tier 2 and start moving on up. If you try a ship class and don't like it, don't hesitate to try a different class or a different nation, each line plays very differently.

 

Also, a suggestion, once you start moving up, check out the youtuber iChaseGaming, he has a series called naval academy, which is really informative and useful for learning different aspects of the game.

Thanks for posting all of that.  I really appreciate the encouragement and guidance.

 

I'm probably a little too sensitive about WR this early in my WoWS career because in WoT average is about 48% and a WR below 40% would be almost impossible to obtain and the holder of such an ignominious stat would probably be shamed right out of the game because with so many players using XVM they would never hear the end of it.

 

My WTR ain't all that great either.

 

PS.  Off topic but I'm doing particularly poorly with a ship I expected to do better with (Hermelin) and I'm wondering if I should just Reserve the crew and sell the sucker or keep plugging away trying to figure out how to succeed with it.

 

PSS.  I did take a flier and played a couple of games in Tier III today.  First time to see Carriers in action since I got dropped into a III/IV game and I spent what felt like an inordinate amount of time dodging Torps.  I did ok though - never bottom on my team - and we split 1/1.

Edited by OldFrog75

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On 10/1/2017 at 10:50 AM, dangerhamster said:

Short answer move up when you are comfortable.

As far as answers to your initial question go, can't say it much better than this.

On 10/1/2017 at 0:23 PM, Speedstang said:

TLDR: T5 is a good spot to hang around and practice, WTR is typically a better measurement than winrate, don't worry too much about stats early on, and practice practice practice, you will improve.

ACK!  Good instinct on the advice, but wrong place! 

OP, there's a pretty massive MM restriction that gets removed when you start driving T5 ships.  In PvP, hang out in tier 4.  When you get your first tier 5, hit PvE (co-op) until you get used to facing some tier 7's.  Once you're comfortable dealing with a tier 7 bot in a tier 5, then try it in Randoms.

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8 minutes ago, Fishrokk said:

As far as answers to your initial question go, can't say it much better than this.

ACK!  Good instinct on the advice, but wrong place! 

OP, there's a pretty massive MM restriction that gets removed when you start driving T5 ships.  In PvP, hang out in tier 4.  When you get your first tier 5, hit PvE (co-op) until you get used to facing some tier 7's.  Once you're comfortable dealing with a tier 7 bot in a tier 5, then try it in Randoms.

Thanks for the advice.  I suspected as much and bought a few Tier IV ships (preparing for the future) after I read in the Wiki they get preferential MM.  Thousands of battles in WoT have taught me the benefit of that, particularly for new players.

 

Speaking of tier IV, how does one get the Imperator Nikolai I?  I wanted to buy it but didn't see it on the Tech Tree or in the Premium Shop.

Edited by OldFrog75

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1 minute ago, Fishrokk said:

As far as answers to your initial question go, can't say it much better than this.

ACK!  Good instinct on the advice, but wrong place! 

OP, there's a pretty massive MM restriction that gets removed when you start driving T5 ships.  In PvP, hang out in tier 4.  When you get your first tier 5, hit PvE (co-op) until you get used to facing some tier 7's.  Once you're comfortable dealing with a tier 7 bot in a tier 5, then try it in Randoms.

I addressed that in the more recent post. 

 

12 minutes ago, OldFrog75 said:

Thanks for posting all of that.  I really appreciate the encouragement and guidance.

 

I'm probably a little too sensitive about WR this early in my WoWS career because in WoT average is about 48% and a WR below 40% would be almost impossible to obtain and the holder of such an ignominious stat would probably be shamed right out of the game because with so many players using XVM they would never hear the end of it.

 

My WTR ain't all that great either.

 

PS.  Off topic but I'm doing particularly poorly with a ship I expected to do better with (Hermelin) and I'm wondering if I should just Reserve the crew and sell the sucker or keep plugging away trying to figure out how to succeed with it.

 

PSS.  I did take a flier and played a couple of games in Tier III today.  First time to see Carriers in action and I spent what felt like an inordinate amount of time dodging Torps.  I did ok though - never bottom on my team - and we split 1/1.

 

 All the tier 1 ships have nearly identical stats with only minor differences; unless you really like playing at tier 1 battles there's not much to be learned, you can't exactly carry a match with one of those ships. Even the top players of the entire game wouldn't be able to do all that much in a tier 1 battle. Don't worry about your win rate or WTR too much yet, you are barely beginning, even the top super-unicum players started similarly.  Focus first on learning the role of your class and specific ship and how to play it, along with basic game mechanics. (This doesn't apply to tier 1 ships for the previously mentioned reasons).

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6 minutes ago, Speedstang said:

I addressed that in the more recent post.

Fair enough, I missed that - sorry!

7 minutes ago, OldFrog75 said:

Speaking of tier IV, how does one get the Imperator Nikolai I?  I wanted to buy it but didn't see it on the Tech Tree or in the Premium Shop.

I don't think you'll be able to get one of those, or a Gremyaschchy (or however they spell it) except possibly as a contest prize.  They have been deemed a little too powerful, but since they were for real money purchase, the official policy is that they can't be nerfed.  (Can't?  Won't?  Either way...)

The best place for information on premium ships is @LittleWhiteMouse's Premium Ships thread.  Text reviews complete with availability information.

Probably wouldn't hurt to pimp the WoWs wiki to a new player, either.

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24 minutes ago, OldFrog75 said:

Thanks for the advice.  I suspected as much and bought a few Tier IV ships (preparing for the future) after I read in the Wiki they get preferential MM.  Thousands of battles in WoT have taught me the benefit of that, particularly for new players.

 

Speaking of tier IV, how does one get the Imperator Nikolai I?  I wanted to buy it but didn't see it on the Tech Tree or in the Premium Shop.

The Imperator Nikolai was released long ago, but was quickly removed from the premium shop, as it was incredibly overpowered for its tier and WG has a policy that they will never alter a premium ships stats in a negative way. The only way to acquire it is from a super container, but the chance is equal to winning the lottery.

 

However, there's an event going right now that allows you to win the Oktyabrskaya Revolutsiya, which is very similar to the Nikolai, same gun layout and similar guns, but with some other more powerful changes, like a hyper reload damage control party and decent AA guns, since it's a tier 5 ship. (Though it's not at all overpowered like the Nikolai is, it's still free, xP.) You do however need a tier 4 ship to play the missions, but they're pretty simple compared to past events and new player friendly: https://worldofwarships.com/en/news/common/stalinium-is-real/

 

One more thing, if you want to buy a premium make sure you do some research on it first, some premiums are unique and thus are very difficult to play properly, especially for a newer player. LittleWhiteMouse reviews premium ships here on the forums with a lot of information aimed at players of all skill levels, great way to learn about specific premiums. Check them out: 

 

Edited by Speedstang

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Also,

39 minutes ago, Speedstang said:

check out the youtuber iChaseGaming, he has a series called naval academy, which is really informative and useful for learning different aspects of the game.

What he said.

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Well I wouldn't stay at tier 1, it doesn't teach you enough. You can't switch ammo types for one and that is a vital skill to learn. I would suggest moving up and then staying in the tier 2-4 range until you can start to do ok. Those tiers will teach you a lot you will need to know and at those tiers there is only a 1 tier spread in MM, meaning it is easier when you are "bottom tier" at those tiers.

Also find your play style, how do you like to play and find ships that fit that play style. I also recommend trying all the ships, you learn what they are good at and bad at. So even if you don't like a ship you know how better to counter it, because you have played it. of course if you play other ships, sometimes they won't fit your playstyle, but I still think it is good to play them, just play to their strengths and learn what they are good at and bad at, so you can beat them when you run into them.

I think that is one of the biggest mistakes people make, they don't play all the different ships and then often are not good at counter ships or classes of ships they don't play, because they don't know what the ships are good at or bad at.

Me I don't like cv's nor do I like British cruisers, I just don't like their game play style. I am still at tier 5 in both cv lines but I am already at tier 8 in the British cruisers, which has taught me how best to counter them when I face them.

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2 hours ago, Koschka said:

Well I wouldn't stay at tier 1, it doesn't teach you enough. You can't switch ammo types for one and that is a vital skill to learn. I would suggest moving up and then staying in the tier 2-4 range until you can start to do ok. Those tiers will teach you a lot you will need to know and at those tiers there is only a 1 tier spread in MM, meaning it is easier when you are "bottom tier" at those tiers.

Also find your play style, how do you like to play and find ships that fit that play style. I also recommend trying all the ships, you learn what they are good at and bad at. So even if you don't like a ship you know how better to counter it, because you have played it. of course if you play other ships, sometimes they won't fit your playstyle, but I still think it is good to play them, just play to their strengths and learn what they are good at and bad at, so you can beat them when you run into them.

I think that is one of the biggest mistakes people make, they don't play all the different ships and then often are not good at counter ships or classes of ships they don't play, because they don't know what the ships are good at or bad at.

Me I don't like cv's nor do I like British cruisers, I just don't like their game play style. I am still at tier 5 in both cv lines but I am already at tier 8 in the British cruisers, which has taught me how best to counter them when I face them.

Thanks for the suggestions.  Sounds like a good plan.   :Smile_great:

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