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CaucasianReroll

It is time to re-think ram mechanics.

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21 hours ago, SalvoSanta said:

Encouraging players to take the easy, spineless, dishonourable way out and ram is sad

Like playing the only battleship in the game with radar so you can bow tank at the edges of cap circles and light up enemy dds?:cap_cool:

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21 hours ago, SalvoSanta said:

We just lost a game (in part), because I got rammed (by a gutless [edited] POS Amagi). I had to charge in because we had BB's on the 10 line, nothing new. High stakes game, and this glue eater probably hits A by mistake when he drops his glue stick and steers right into me, because I'm on the side his guns weren't facing.

A full health Missouri should not die to a ram from an Amagi that has 20k health left. That is a bad mechanic that makes no sense. Encouraging players to take the easy, spineless, dishonourable way out and ram is sad. But the game allows it. Can we get this changed? I'd be almost happy to keep detonations if you fixed this. Lol just kidding, they [edited]suck too.

It was probably intentional.  Why shoot the ship you are going to love tenderly?  Get that damage.

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So was the Amagi who turned a losing situation into a winning one or the guy that screwed up and put himself into a position to be rammed that really is the "glue stick eater"?  Seriously, you should have never been that close to him to begin with.  It's not like he accidentally rammed you, you allowed him to because you were careless enough to let him get that close.

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On 10/1/2017 at 1:40 AM, ExploratorOne said:

I have rammed a ship (Bismarck to Bismarck) and survived - I had more health than she did and we were travelling at maybe half speed (may have been running the flag); did have to repair flooding, though.  It is also interesting to take out a DD on a torp run.  If you get under their torp arming range, they are sometimes close enough to swing a BB's stern into them.  A little tap, they blow up and you keep on moving with little loss of speed.

The mechanic is both ships deliver their full HP in damage plus ramming flag if it's a factor.

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OP is only complaining because he lost.

 

WhjkRkv.gif

 

Notice all the unwarranted assumptions and insults directed at the player that sank him.

Edited by AraAragami

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Low Health and probably going to die anyways.

Near full health ship in close proximity.

 

Well it doesn't take a genius to figure out the most logical choice of action.

199902f3f11f9a87d35626c1dfeb83cd116a544c

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1 hour ago, AraAragami said:

OP is only complaining because he lost.

 

WhjkRkv.gif

 

We're used to that behaviour from the OP.

 

Dunning-Kruger, not just for potatoes anymore!

Edited by Skpstr

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I don't believe the impact is being interpreted properly. I can "trade paint" with an enemy ship, barely brushing against them, and it racks up full damage as if I'd plowed straight into them. 

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Ramming is a tactic.  If it serves you, then use it.  If it serves the enemy, avoid it.

 

Or perhaps more subtle, but often more significant in operations:

If the "threat" of a ram serves you, then use it.  If the "threat" of a ram serves the enemy, then avoid it.

 

The threat is subtle because the threat envelop is much larger than the threat itself.  One who recognizes the threat only after one enters the threat envelope has put themselves in a bad position.  Avoiding a ram after entering the envelope requires one to either destroy the enemy before they ram (often problematic) or requires maneuvering to avoid the ram, with turning away often being the only option.  Turning exposes oneself to broadside fire.  And even a successful turn away often places one in a chased position; again, often a disadvantaged position.

 

Ramming (and avoiding a ram) requires "thinking" and "planning".  Both are nice attributes to add to a game that places a premium on thinking and planning.

 

I guess the bottom line is anyone that finds themselves on the receiving end of ram has usually had many opportunities over the previous several minutes to avoid that position.  And if one avoids the position, they avoid the ram.  

 

 

 

 

Edited by Soshi_Sone

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Quote

 

We just lost a game (in part), because I got rammed (by a gutless [edited] POS Amagi). I had to charge in because we had BB's on the 10 line, nothing new. High stakes game, and this glue eater probably hits A by mistake when he drops his glue stick and steers right into me, because I'm on the side his guns weren't facing.

A full health Missouri should not die to a ram from an Amagi that has 20k health left. That is a bad mechanic that makes no sense. Encouraging players to take the easy, spineless, dishonourable way out and ram is sad. But the game allows it. Can we get this changed? I'd be almost happy to keep detonations if you fixed this. Lol just kidding, they [edited]suck too.

 

This sounds like you got outplayed.  A 20K Amagi traded for a full health, higher tier Missouri? 

I don't assume it was a cowardly accident.  Sounds like good sense to me.  Was he expected to obligingly wait and die while your superior guns, armour and vastly superior HP inevitably pounded him to death at close range?

Instead he takes out a higher tier BB and trades 20K for 70K HP...

Sounds like you weren't paying attention and got outwitted by a glue eater in a very unwieldy ship?

That said, ram mechanics do seem a little wonky. At least, the bow-on ship should take less damage (say half) that they currently do. 

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On 10/1/2017 at 0:07 AM, Ghost_Raven75 said:

I somewhat agree with you.  I think that if you get rammed by someone who has 25% or more less health than you they should not live and you would live but take considerable damage.  I've had the same thing happen to me as well.  I'm going to start using the ramming flags now.

why should it matter how much HP the enemy ship has? Just because the ship has lost 75% of is HP doesn't mean it has lost 7% of its mass.  It's still the same sized ship ramming into you.

What needs to be changed is the mechanics on how ramming damage works.  If it's a straight head on ram into the side of the ship, then sure, let it explode.  But when a ship just barely taps you with its bow, it makes no sense from that to cause the ship to go down.

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Ramming is spinless? a lose-lose to a ship that has a chance to sink something with it that hopefully isn't an ally, it's going to take it down with it as best it can. I've had alot of times I've done this/wanted to do it. Just saying.

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On 9/30/2017 at 11:30 PM, SalvoSanta said:

A full health Missouri should not die to a ram from an Amagi that has 20k health left.

Sounds like the Missouri captain just sucks at driving his ship and is unaware of his surroundings.

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32 minutes ago, GUNSTAR_THE_LEGEND said:

Nothing worse then seeing a BB such as a Montana with 1000hp ram another Montana with full health and both ships die.

 

Only for the full health ship and letting the floating wreck get close enough to ram is their own fault.

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On ‎10‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 1:05 AM, Destroyer_Suzukaze said:

Force is mass times acceleration squared after all

NO.

NO!!!!!!!!!!!

No Physics book IN THE WORLD will tell you this, because IT ISN'T SO!!!Newton didn't think so. Neither did D'Alembert. Neither did Euler. Nor did Einstein, because...

FRIKKING EFFFF EQUALS FRIKKING EMMMMM TIMES FRIKKINGG AAAAAAYYYYYYY!!!!!!! NO FRIKKING EXPONENT!!!!!!

 

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I would have done what the Amagi player did. (question was a he running a ramming flag?) I have done this to higher tier ships in the Bismark and Tirpitz.  I consider it a valid tactic.  I know I am probably going to die, so I am taking the higher tier ship with me if possible or doing massive damage to him/her if not.  Case in point in a game a few months back I rammed a GFK with said Bismark, because I was about to die and he was the best target to try and take with me if possible, and I did.  GFK complained about it.  I told him chat hey I was about to die and you were the best target to take with me.  Which he admitted shortly after was the best play.  We won because I took him out of the game.  I was doing it to win.  Getting the kill just made it better.

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1 hour ago, MannyD_of_The_Sea said:

NO.

NO!!!!!!!!!!!

No Physics book IN THE WORLD will tell you this, because IT ISN'T SO!!!Newton didn't think so. Neither did D'Alembert. Neither did Euler. Nor did Einstein, because...

FRIKKING EFFFF EQUALS FRIKKING EMMMMM TIMES FRIKKINGG AAAAAAYYYYYYY!!!!!!! NO FRIKKING EXPONENT!!!!!!

 

Newton: "The net force on an object is equal to the mass of the object mulriplied by the acceleration of the object"

 

F=ma 

 

Where acceleration is measured in meters per second squared, I did misplace the square.

 

So F = (kg) × (m/s2) can't write the square neatly on my phone

 

The yelling is not needed, you can argue a point while remaining respectful

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2 hours ago, GUNSTAR_THE_LEGEND said:

Nothing worse then seeing a BB such as a Montana with 1000hp ram another Montana with full health and both ships die.

 

 

Depends which one is your teammate.... :Smile_teethhappy:

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21 hours ago, evilleMonkeigh said:

This sounds like you got outplayed.  A 20K Amagi traded for a full health, higher tier Missouri? 

I don't assume it was a cowardly accident.  Sounds like good sense to me.  Was he expected to obligingly wait and die while your superior guns, armour and vastly superior HP inevitably pounded him to death at close range?

Instead he takes out a higher tier BB and trades 20K for 70K HP...

Sounds like you weren't paying attention and got outwitted by a glue eater in a very unwieldy ship?

That said, ram mechanics do seem a little wonky. At least, the bow-on ship should take less damage (say half) that they currently do. 

 

Yep

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On 9/30/2017 at 11:38 PM, ArchMadman said:

I don't know, when the situation calls for it and if i'm almost dead and if im in ramming distance i will take them to hell with me, plus it helps the team also.

 

On 10/1/2017 at 1:23 AM, DoctorMcDerp said:

This kids, is why you should learn to dodge ships the way you dodge torps.  It's really your fault for not paying attention to what the enemy was doing, so in that sense, it's like asking that all torps in the water and shells in the air should be deleted once a player dies, because its mainly the same concept, low HP or dead ship killing ship that may have all their HP, and wasn't paying attention to what the guy was doing before his death.

TL;DR, no.

 

On 10/1/2017 at 1:40 AM, YamatoA150 said:

It's your own fault for even allowing an enemy ship that close that isn't a DD or stealthy cruiser. Especially not a battleship (or a battlecruiser in this instance).

 

That aside, there definitely are some mechanics at play when ramming though; there was a low-speed side-to-side grinding action between me and another battleship, and we just both took steady fire-like damage until one of us sank first. There was also a time when a 1/4th speed ram didn't do anywhere as much damage as I was expecting. A DD ramming a battleship almost never caused flooding in my experience, though at full speed the damage still felt like a single torpedo strike.

 

I believe it takes into account the speed of both ships as well as the class/mass, along with point of impact, though it doesn't seem consistent, as even a low speed ram sometimes did total damage.

 

On 10/1/2017 at 1:44 AM, ExploratorOne said:

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Ramming

Summary

Ramming is the act of intentionally colliding with another ship. Typically, ramming is a last-ditch tactic, as it usually results in the destruction of the involved ships. A collision between allied ships causes team damage, but the amount of damage is drastically lower than those between allied and enemy ships.

Mechanics

When ramming an enemy ship, a certain amount of damage is inflicted to the hit point pools of both ships. If a ship receives damage that exceeds 10% of its total hit points, it will begin flooding. There are two important factors which affect the amount of damage inflicted by ramming: a ship's speed and the size of its hit point pool.

Speed

Speed is the factor which determines the level of damage inflicted to another ship. To ensure the maximum amount of damage is caused to an enemy ship, collisions must be achieved at the highest speed possible. High-speed collisions immediately inflict a high level of damage to both involved ships. These types of collisions typically result in the destruction of one or both of the involved ships. In contrast, Low-speed collisions do not inflict a high level of damage. Instead, a lowered amount of damage is inflicted to both ships during the time they contact each other. The amount of damage is dependent on the speed of impact. This type of collision is not common because it only occurs when the combined collision speed is very low, between 0 and 5 knots.

Size of Hit Point Pool

Damage from a collision is not determined by a ship's current hit points (HP). Rather, a ship's total HP pool determines the maximum amount of damage that it can inflict to an enemy ship. In a high-speed collision, a ship with a large HP pool has the potential to inflict heavy damage. Ships with small HP pools, such as destroyers, have a reduced maximum damage output in a collision.

 

For example, Yamato has 97,200 HP. Since ramming damage is determined by the total HP pool, Yamato is capable of inflicting 97,200 damage through ramming. If a Yamato with 5,000 HP remaining were to ram an enemy Yamato with 97,200 HP, both ships would be destroyed. This is because the maximum damage output during a collision is determined by the total HP pool of ships, rather than the current HP in a battle.

 

 

Ramming is a viable tactic to remove the enemy from the game.

 

I have done it several times to great effect, and other times just to spite the other teams victory.

 

If I am in a BB that has low health, no repair or damage party on cool down, and I'm burning or flooding, I'm going to find the closest red ship and ram him.

 

On a side note, I have also rammed a Shimakaze DD while in a Montana. He'd already fired his torps and was pinging away at me. I'd already fired the forward guns at him and wasn't about to take the chance of giving him my broadside to fire any more torps at. He hid himself in smoke and did not run while sitting next to an island. So I rammed him. Only damage I took was HP that his ship started with, so 20k. And I wasn't flying a ram flag.

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