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CaucasianReroll

It is time to re-think ram mechanics.

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http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Ramming

Summary

Ramming is the act of intentionally colliding with another ship. Typically, ramming is a last-ditch tactic, as it usually results in the destruction of the involved ships. A collision between allied ships causes team damage, but the amount of damage is drastically lower than those between allied and enemy ships.

Mechanics

When ramming an enemy ship, a certain amount of damage is inflicted to the hit point pools of both ships. If a ship receives damage that exceeds 10% of its total hit points, it will begin flooding. There are two important factors which affect the amount of damage inflicted by ramming: a ship's speed and the size of its hit point pool.

Speed

Speed is the factor which determines the level of damage inflicted to another ship. To ensure the maximum amount of damage is caused to an enemy ship, collisions must be achieved at the highest speed possible. High-speed collisions immediately inflict a high level of damage to both involved ships. These types of collisions typically result in the destruction of one or both of the involved ships. In contrast, Low-speed collisions do not inflict a high level of damage. Instead, a lowered amount of damage is inflicted to both ships during the time they contact each other. The amount of damage is dependent on the speed of impact. This type of collision is not common because it only occurs when the combined collision speed is very low, between 0 and 5 knots.

Size of Hit Point Pool

Damage from a collision is not determined by a ship's current hit points (HP). Rather, a ship's total HP pool determines the maximum amount of damage that it can inflict to an enemy ship. In a high-speed collision, a ship with a large HP pool has the potential to inflict heavy damage. Ships with small HP pools, such as destroyers, have a reduced maximum damage output in a collision.

 

For example, Yamato has 97,200 HP. Since ramming damage is determined by the total HP pool, Yamato is capable of inflicting 97,200 damage through ramming. If a Yamato with 5,000 HP remaining were to ram an enemy Yamato with 97,200 HP, both ships would be destroyed. This is because the maximum damage output during a collision is determined by the total HP pool of ships, rather than the current HP in a battle.

Edited by ExploratorOne

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2 hours ago, SalvoSanta said:

We just lost a game (in part), because I got rammed (by a gutless [edited] POS Amagi). I had to charge in because we had BB's on the 10 line, nothing new. High stakes game, and this glue eater probably hits A by mistake when he drops his glue stick and steers right into me, because I'm on the side his guns weren't facing.

A full health Missouri should not die to a ram from an Amagi that has 20k health left. That is a bad mechanic that makes no sense. Encouraging players to take the easy, spineless, dishonourable way out and ram is sad. But the game allows it. Can we get this changed? I'd be almost happy to keep detonations if you fixed this. Lol just kidding, they [edited]suck too.

Umm......a few points here.

1.  Ramming the enemy is the most honorable act any captain can pull off in this game.  It is made even more honorable if the captain types "Banzai" in all chat right before the ram.

2.  As much as you call the Amagi a dumb glue eater, it sounds like he ended up making the smartest move he could in the situation presented, and as a result won his team the game.  Even if it was done by accident, the Amagi did make the right play.

3.  You should always be aware of the possibility of a ram, especially in situations where the enemy has nothing to lose.  An Amagi with 20k HP will struggle to out brawl a full health Missouri, so knowing this, many people would decide they would rather get an extra 70k damage and take an enemy down with them, than die and accomplish nothing.  You should have seen this coming and taken more steps to avoid the ram.

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35 minutes ago, yashma said:

1.  Ramming the enemy is the most honorable act any captain can pull off in this game.  It is made even more honorable if the captain types "Banzai" in all chat right before the ram.
 

 

 

rYfIP4j.jpg

 

After 4 heals used, and only 5k hp left it was time for much honor.  :)

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2 hours ago, SalvoSanta said:

this glue eater probably hits A by mistake when he drops his glue stick and steers right into me, because I'm on the side his guns weren't facing.

 

Or, he outplayed you, kept shooting at other targets knowing he was going to ram you anyhow. Now you are here upset that you got outsmarted by  a "glue eater".

 

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9 hours ago, SalvoSanta said:

We just lost a game (in part), because I got rammed (by a gutless [edited] POS Amagi). I had to charge in because we had BB's on the 10 line, nothing new. High stakes game, and this glue eater probably hits A by mistake when he drops his glue stick and steers right into me, because I'm on the side his guns weren't facing.

A full health Missouri should not die to a ram from an Amagi that has 20k health left. That is a bad mechanic that makes no sense. Encouraging players to take the easy, spineless, dishonourable way out and ram is sad. But the game allows it.

 

My question is this:

 

What did you expect to happen when you voluntarily closed with a ship a tier lower, with few enough HP compared to yours that he wasn't going to win a gun duel? 

 

Not to mention that obviously you were an important ship in the match.

 

Smart play on the part of the other player, good trade.

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7 hours ago, ExploratorOne said:

I have rammed a ship (Bismarck to Bismarck) and survived - I had more health than she did and we were travelling at maybe half speed (may have been running the flag); did have to repair flooding, though.  

 

You can also survive a same-ship collision if the enemy has the stock hull or you have the SE skill.

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OP is the main reason I don't like to get TOO close. If you don't sink the enemy fast enough, your options get limited to risking a ram, or turning away and exposing your broadside to a point-blank salvo.

 

I prefer having options.

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6 hours ago, gloom13 said:

 

 

rYfIP4j.jpg

 

After 4 heals used, and only 5k hp left it was time for much honor.  :)

Image result for zuko honor meme

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8 hours ago, SalvoSanta said:

This is exactly what I'm saying. The fact it's a viable way of getting out of something is disgraceful.

Now...the last time I checked, the point of the game was to remove the 'bad' guys from the map as soon as possible, correct? Every ship they lose means less points for them, and dead ships can't damage or kill my teammates nor take caps. 

Sounds to me that you likely made a positioning error if you let him get that close. Bow tanking and reversing so not maneuverable? This is what happens when WoT players play floaty boats.

I love how you and your ilk denigrate other players as glue eaters, window lickers, etc etc, as if your 'superior' accomplishments in a game amount to anything substantive. Oh...you're better at a game than player X? Great. Good on you. Rock out with your c*ck out. In the navy, we talked about teachable moments. You have the option of simply calling someone out and tossing them under the bus when they err. You can also offer them a corrective course to avoid repeat mistakes on the future. The choice chosen reflects ones character.

To your OP...sounds to me like the Amagi saw an opportunity to deprive the red team of 12 big guns and a full health ship to help his team. Sounds like solid reasoning to me.

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7 hours ago, YamatoA150 said:

It's your own fault for even allowing an enemy ship that close that isn't a DD or stealthy cruiser. Especially not a battleship (or a battlecruiser in this instance).

:Smile_honoring:

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@yashma has it exactly right; thanks @BBsquid for the additional hilarity.  Haven't heard that phrase for a while.

 

OP, you kind of lost me at "dishonorable."  What is dishonorable in WOWS?  Cheating and deliberate TKing, certainly.  You can make a case for abusing map edge dynamics, self-torping as a CV to deprive the enemy of a kill, and maybe running away to the end of the map just to keep everyone in game for another three minutes when it really is truly lost.  Otherwise I can't think of anything effective that is also dishonorable (overly passive play may be dishonorable, but it isn't effective).

 

I'm sure there could be tweaks to ramming dynamics, but I have a hard time seeing that as an issue anywhere close to the top of the list of priorities.

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2 hours ago, BBsquid said:

 

I love how you and your ilk denigrate other players as glue eaters, window lickers, etc etc, as if your 'superior' accomplishments in a game amount to anything substantive. 

 

I'm not even bothered by that, as long as they admit to sampling the glue when it happens.

 

Everybody makes mistakes, and everybody knows that. To make an obvious error and pretend it was somebody else's fault, well, it's pretty universal the treatment one gets here for that.

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12 hours ago, SalvoSanta said:

We just lost a game (in part), because I got rammed (by a gutless [edited] POS Amagi). I had to charge in because we had BB's on the 10 line, nothing new. High stakes game, and this glue eater probably hits A by mistake when he drops his glue stick and steers right into me, because I'm on the side his guns weren't facing.

A full health Missouri should not die to a ram from an Amagi that has 20k health left. That is a bad mechanic that makes no sense. Encouraging players to take the easy, spineless, dishonourable way out and ram is sad. But the game allows it. Can we get this changed? I'd be almost happy to keep detonations if you fixed this. Lol just kidding, they [edited]suck too.

 

 if someone is close enough to ram you, its all your fault to begin with.

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     I too have rammed and survived (rarely)

     I was in a St. Louis (T3 US CL) and found a dd 2 km away.  I rammed and it kinda slid by my side for a second and as I turned into it more it broke in half as I churned through it.  I survived easily.  Good times!

     Actually, I should be the ramming victim more often than I am but the tactic doesn't seem to register with the enemy when he really should use it as a last resort.

     As the wartime poster in Britain said in 1940, before Sea Lion was cancelled "You can always take one with you."

     Can you imagine our government saying that to us in the current war?

 

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As far as I'm concerned it takes 2 to ram. Its not exactly a quick process in this game.

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12 hours ago, yashma said:

Umm......a few points here.

1.  Ramming the enemy is the most honorable act any captain can pull off in this game.  It is made even more honorable if the captain types "Banzai" in all chat right before the ram.

 

Betting ends!

 

 

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A low health ship rammed and killed another full health one?  Well, congratulations for him!  :Smile_great:

 

OP, if you were in his position you'd do the same thing, so stop complaining.  "Honorable"?  Please.  Fair fights are for suckers.

 

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Ramming is sometimes the only thing that can be done. It is very honourabu and should begin with shouting "Banzai!" before the ram.

*Insert Worf moment from Star Trek*

Perhaps today is a good day to die. Ramming speed!

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13 hours ago, ExploratorOne said:

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Ramming

Summary

Ramming is the act of intentionally colliding with another ship. Typically, ramming is a last-ditch tactic, as it usually results in the destruction of the involved ships. A collision between allied ships causes team damage, but the amount of damage is drastically lower than those between allied and enemy ships.

Mechanics

When ramming an enemy ship, a certain amount of damage is inflicted to the hit point pools of both ships. If a ship receives damage that exceeds 10% of its total hit points, it will begin flooding. There are two important factors which affect the amount of damage inflicted by ramming: a ship's speed and the size of its hit point pool.

Speed

Speed is the factor which determines the level of damage inflicted to another ship. To ensure the maximum amount of damage is caused to an enemy ship, collisions must be achieved at the highest speed possible. High-speed collisions immediately inflict a high level of damage to both involved ships. These types of collisions typically result in the destruction of one or both of the involved ships. In contrast, Low-speed collisions do not inflict a high level of damage. Instead, a lowered amount of damage is inflicted to both ships during the time they contact each other. The amount of damage is dependent on the speed of impact. This type of collision is not common because it only occurs when the combined collision speed is very low, between 0 and 5 knots.

Size of Hit Point Pool

Damage from a collision is not determined by a ship's current hit points (HP). Rather, a ship's total HP pool determines the maximum amount of damage that it can inflict to an enemy ship. In a high-speed collision, a ship with a large HP pool has the potential to inflict heavy damage. Ships with small HP pools, such as destroyers, have a reduced maximum damage output in a collision.

 

For example, Yamato has 97,200 HP. Since ramming damage is determined by the total HP pool, Yamato is capable of inflicting 97,200 damage through ramming. If a Yamato with 5,000 HP remaining were to ram an enemy Yamato with 97,200 HP, both ships would be destroyed. This is because the maximum damage output during a collision is determined by the total HP pool of ships, rather than the current HP in a battle.

So... you LET him ram you and now you want mechanics fixed.....

Look if the enemy BB is waaaaay lower HP than you and heading right at you you should have thought about it before he got within 5kms of you.... sounds like your fault.

Like complaining a DD with 10 HP fired a point blank torpedo salvo at you... same thing really... you LET it happen. It didn't have to happen. But you let it.

Edited by BlitzFalcon109

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16 hours ago, SalvoSanta said:

a gutless [edited] POS Amagi

High stakes game

and this glue eater

when he drops his glue stick ...

the easy, spineless, dishonourable way out and ram is sad. 

Yeeesh. 

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There 2 things I don't like about ramming.

1)  The mechanic always seems to deal full damage to both targets regardless of speed / relative speeds especially and angle of impact.  Ships sliding past each other should cause major damage and flooding, but not instantly detonate for example.   While a full speed ram into a broadside should kill both ships.  This would also mean more skill into setting up a good ram, so it'll never happen.  It probably also limited by the engines wonky physics.

2) The animation, ships need to crumple and break apart roll and sink from flooding - not burst into a massive fire ball.

Ramming is, and should always be a viable last ditch tactic.   Also CV on CV ramming action, always need more of this. 

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21 hours ago, SalvoSanta said:

A full health Missouri should not die to a ram from an Amagi that has 20k health left

Wish I had a replay. A million plus ones to that amagi player.

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