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KC_zz15

Montana - Upgrade slot 3

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Hi all, I just got my Montana and I'm trying to decide between Artillery Plotting Room Modification 2 and AA Guns Modification 3, the captain is AA spec.

With Artillery Plotting Room Modification 2: 265m main battery dispersion and 802 AA damage per second (when under 3km)

With AA Guns Modification 3: 297m main battery dispersion and 1002 AA damage per second (when under 3km)

 

How important is an 11% drop in main battery dispersion?

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get that dispersion. 

your AA if specced right can get above 100 easily, mod3 is unnecessary, that dispersion can mean the difference between a bounce and a citadel in fights below 14km.

 

the maximum dispersion circle is at your max range, you should not ever be fighting at that range if you can help it, 8-15km is the Montana's sweet spot (unless fighting yamato, then try and close to within 7 so you can utalize your secondaries, and out manuver his guns turn rates.)

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I'd say Plotting Room. That 11% dispersion is amazing, and the shells already hit hard. Hitting more of them, more often does wonders.

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33 minutes ago, GX9900A said:

get that dispersion. 

your AA if specced right can get above 100 easily, mod3 is unnecessary, that dispersion can mean the difference between a bounce and a citadel in fights below 14km.

 

the maximum dispersion circle is at your max range, you should not ever be fighting at that range if you can help it, 8-15km is the Montana's sweet spot (unless fighting yamato, then try and close to within 7 so you can utalize your secondaries, and out manuver his guns turn rates.)

 

8-15km will get you torpedoed to death, not allow you to turn out and run if needed, and get you roasted to death by HE cruisers. 

 

You can do this at the end of the game, but not throughout it, sorry. I have to STRONGLY disagree with the advice you are giving here.

 

Montana is VERY accurate, and quite capable of dealing with targets in its 13km to 20km sweet spot. You should only close in with the Montana if you are in a group of ships, see an opportunity, or it's late game.

 

Also, while you can deal with a Yamato by performing a drive-by, he can also lol-pen you through the bow while you are on the way to him. That's a very niche tactic to attempt. While it can be successful, it shouldn't be the go-to thing to do. It's much better to kite a Yamato and burn it down with Montana's powerful HE than to try to close on one and let it citadel you to death through the bow while you attempt to get close. 

 

 

OP: take the 11% dispersion reduction. It makes all of the difference. 

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3 minutes ago, DOCTOR_CITADEL said:

 

8-15km will get you torpedoed to death, not allow you to turn out and run if needed, and get you roasted to death by HE cruisers. 

 

You can do this at the end of the game, but not throughout it, sorry. I have to STRONGLY disagree with the advice you are giving here.

 

Montana is VERY accurate, and quite capable of dealing with targets in its 13km to 20km sweet spot. You should only close in with the Montana if you are in a group of ships, see an opportunity, or it's late game.

 

Also, while you can deal with a Yamato by performing a drive-by, he can also lol-pen you through the bow while you are on the way to him. That's a very niche tactic to attempt. While it can be successful, it shouldn't be the go-to thing to do. It's much better to kite a Yamato and burn it down with Montana's powerful HE than to try to close on one and let it citadel you to death through the bow while you attempt to get close. 

 

dealing with torpedoes can be avoided by simply staying with your fleet (if you can convince them to push with you), yamatos lol-pen capability shouldent be ignored, but it can also be mitigated with not trying to bow tank, and exploiting yamatos odd citadel in return - sure its not a go-to thing, and fairly situational (yami has to be alone, or you need substantial support of your own to deal with their support, and ya need to know roughly where his DD's are) but its not very hard to do.

 

i personally have difficulty hitting any decent damage outside of 15 km, and i suppose im a fairly aggressive player which does nto help matters, but i haven't really seen a case where you would do more damage, and help your team more by being farther away. but im also not a great player, so i suppose that might be why.

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Just how far "AA speced" is the captain?

 

If it's the basic BFT/AFT type, then focusing the strongest group you can have in game is 28.9 chance per second to shoot down planes just with 40 mm and 127 mm (20 mm becomes almost negligible against TB's unless they get in closer).

If it's manual AA included, that same figure becomes 38.5 chance per second.

if you add just that module to the BFT/AFT and focus - 36.1% chance per second.

If you add that module to BFT/AFT/Man AA and focus - 48.1% chance per second. Add in the 10% flag you may breach 50% with just long range and 40 mm guns.

 

Inside 20 mm range, the BFT/AFT/Man AA and focus with the upgrade would be 62.9% chance per second.

 

 little added perspective, Shokaku has the strongest tier 8 attack plane (TB's) - Montana 40 mm and 127 mm with BFT alone and focus is 41% chance per second. With manual AA - 54.5%. That plus the upgrade - 68.2%.Wanna add in that flag for the extra 10% - 75% chance every second you shoot down a shokaku plane, with just the 40 mm guns and 127's, and that's guns that can be made to reach 5 km and over 7 respectively. And remember, that these numbers, are the absolute strongest planes in game, and the strongest at tier 8. And save the one where stated, without having to even get in range of the 20 mm guns.

 

Basically, if you've gone full out AA spec, your looking at the strongest attack planes in game, depending on how close they get, and assuming they have been maxed out  on HP, 50/50 shot a second they a plane through outside point blank if your focusing them, DB's, they have to get in range and have less HP that may well put it at 64%+ at roughly 3 km. If your against a T8 CV, you can become damn near immune to air attack from them, pretty much immune to DB's. Tier 9 is somewhere in the middle. And this assumes that you are completely on your own with no help because another ship to add to AA makes it that much harder/flat out impossible to approach you.

 

So, that's the numbers if you've truly AA spec'd your captain and ship. So it's those numbers vs the reduced dispersion of main battery guns. Those numbers are also why you see CV players wanting AA nerfed and complaining that some ships are basically immune to air attack. Just imagine what happens when they encounter cruisers that may at first have a slightly lower number but get a 3x DPS boost with the press of a button. Des can achieve technically over 100% chance per second against some planes.

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APRM2, without a doubt.  It improves Montana's dispersion and, if your aim is good, take some long range shots with very real chances of hitting.  It's also important in making the salvos a bit denser when saturating an area to smash a DD.

 

Montana also is not a brawler.  You do not want to brawl with GK.  You do not want to close range and give Yamato a chance on citadeling you with salvos that can't possibly miss.  Montana excels at the intermediate and long range BB gunnery game.  APRM2 makes this a reality as it makes Monty's gunnery consistent at range.

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Thanks for the advice guys, but I think I'll go with the AA mod, because this guy recommends I go with that one.

B7FXHjf.jpg

Edited by KC_zz15

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4 minutes ago, KC_zz15 said:

Thanks for the advice guys, but I think I'll go with the AA mod, because this guy recommends I go with that one.

https://puu.sh/xMJvK/402226770d.jpg[/img]

 

It's quite possible that person divs regularly with a CV to guarantee there is an opposing one to farm plane kills. If you plan to do so as well it makes a lot of sense otherwise it's important to consider you will only see CVs in some battles. Every battle you will be firing your main guns.

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3 minutes ago, RipNuN2 said:

It's quite possible that person divs regularly with a CV to guarantee there is an opposing one to farm plane kills. If you plan to do so as well it makes a lot of sense otherwise it's important to consider you will only see CVs in some battles. Every battle you will be firing your main guns.

He tells me he did so about 20% of the time but often solo. As for the artillery mod, it apparently only makes a difference at all with hitting cruisers.

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On 9/30/2017 at 1:47 PM, KC_zz15 said:

He tells me he did so about 20% of the time but often solo. As for the artillery mod, it apparently only makes a difference at all with hitting cruisers.

 

Which the ship is absolutely devastating against.  I take, and highly recommend the dispersion module unless you are playing in competitive play with CV's on the other team, then full AA spec ships are viable.  For randoms, I take the AA range module in the 2nd slot and dispersion module in 3rd slot and make cruisers cringe at how much damage I do to them!  You just don't reliably see CV's in T10 matches and when you do they are normally T8's.  T9 and T10 CV's are plenty rare enough that a full AA Build isn't necessary and even WITH it, if a T10 CV wants you dead, especially a Hakuryu, you are dead.  You'll either die to the torpedo bomber strike that can fly through walls of AA to kill you, or you die to the dive bombers that seem to do just as much.

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I like the accuracy module.

makes DDs regret getting close to my Monty.

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I went for accuracy, too.  My build is a hybrid one- I took AA mod 2, and AFT, so my AA rating is already 100.   I reserved the 3 point slots for BoS and Superintendant.  Thus, BFT and AA mod 3 aren't necessary.  So far, it's worked out well.  Makes Monty deadly accurate, and having Stephen Seagall as captain- my turrets turn rather quickly, too!

  I inflicted serious damage on a Yamato on the far side of the map before my teammates took him down.  The cruisers and Nor-Cal on my side didn't fare any better,lol.  Having 4 turrets instead of 3 makes a big difference, too.  There was a CV on the red team, but he kept way away from me and the Alabama I was pushing alongside.  ( as an aside, it's amazing how many ships that duo can push out of a cap!)

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Not even close, I go with dispersion.

 

Most the other modules/skills I have go more towards AA which is plenty strong on Monty as is (and how often do you even see them?). Dispersion helps a lot more than just vs cruisers, I've had a 1 shot on a Gearing from 16km out, 9 shells hit him.

 

That little bump in AA when its AA is already massive just isn't much compared to the dispersion imo.

 

 

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I use the dispersion mod.  I run with a stealth Montana, so I tend to engage in those 10-15km fights rather than the long range snipe fest most people do.  I've found the dispersion mod lets me hit about 20% more shells at 15km than the AA mod.  And even without being specced for AA, I still have a 98 AA rating.  Its plenty for taking down anything that comes near me, not that CV's stray near a Montana often.  

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19 minutes ago, XpliCT_PaiiN said:

I use the dispersion mod.  I run with a stealth Montana, so I tend to engage in those 10-15km fights rather than the long range snipe fest most people do.  I've found the dispersion mod lets me hit about 20% more shells at 15km than the AA mod.  And even without being specced for AA, I still have a 98 AA rating.  Its plenty for taking down anything that comes near me, not that CV's stray near a Montana often.  

Every one of your reasons for taking the accuracy mod, is an argument to not take the accuracy mod. Stealth Montana plus 15k or closer engagements means that 11% reduction in shell dispersion is not helping you in any noticeable way. I'd also like to see your research on this 20% increase to your accuracy.  Or you can just simply not bother, because it's obvious that you are lying. 

14 hours ago, MrDeaf said:

I like the accuracy module.

makes DDs regret getting close to my Monty.

Once again, that mod is not helping you here. The closer a ship is to you, the less effective the accuracy mod is. Also, long ago the BB class received an accuracy buff to all close range enemy ships for this very reason. This is why BBs are able to one shot those suiciding destroyers, dispursion mod or not. 

 

With all that said, I never run the dispersion mod on any ship. It's the most worthless mod in the game, and it takes up the most important slot in your mod lineup. For obvious reasons, you would never run this mod on your DDs or cruisers. So let's talk about BBs. 

 

So first off, you have the AA mod. This is your go to mod on any battleship because CVs are the one thing in the game that can kill you at will. Yes, I'm saying that your already 100 AA rating is not good enough to save you anymore. It used to, but not anymore. 

 

So now how about reload? Well this here is my weapon of choice outside of CV weekend. This thing is about a 4 second reduction to your reload. That alone will punish anything in the game in any situation. More shells = more damage. Faster reload means more fires on those bow in campers. And  less times of that DD popping up next to you or that broadside cruiser, and you saying "damn if I had one more second." 

 

Now yes, this is where people say "yeah well you can't hurt what you can't hit." Well sorry, the odds don't support that argument. People forget that it's an 11% reduction in DISPURSION. Not an 11% increase to accuracy. Yeah maybe this can help when you're shooting over 20km, but that's about it. And if you're doing this, well, you're doing it wrong. 

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I chose the AA mod because 11% better dispersion at +20KM isn't going to net enough hits to matter.  I'd rather have that AA for when I'm being focused by an enemy carrier.

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21 minutes ago, Braize said:

Every one of your reasons for taking the accuracy mod, is an argument to not take the accuracy mod. Stealth Montana plus 15k or closer engagements means that 11% reduction in shell dispersion is not helping you in any noticeable way. I'd also like to see your research on this 20% increase to your accuracy.  Or you can just simply not bother, because it's obvious that you are lying. 

Once again, that mod is not helping you here. The closer a ship is to you, the less effective the accuracy mod is. Also, long ago the BB class received an accuracy buff to all close range enemy ships for this very reason. This is why BBs are able to one shot those suiciding destroyers, dispursion mod or not. 

 

With all that said, I never run the dispersion mod on any ship. It's the most worthless mod in the game, and it takes up the most important slot in your mod lineup. For obvious reasons, you would never run this mod on your DDs or cruisers. So let's talk about BBs. 

 

So first off, you have the AA mod. This is your go to mod on any battleship because CVs are the one thing in the game that can kill you at will. Yes, I'm saying that your already 100 AA rating is not good enough to save you anymore. It used to, but not anymore. 

 

So now how about reload? Well this here is my weapon of choice outside of CV weekend. This thing is about a 4 second reduction to your reload. That alone will punish anything in the game in any situation. More shells = more damage. Faster reload means more fires on those bow in campers. And  less times of that DD popping up next to you or that broadside cruiser, and you saying "damn if I had one more second." 

 

Now yes, this is where people say "yeah well you can't hurt what you can't hit." Well sorry, the odds don't support that argument. People forget that it's an 11% reduction in DISPURSION. Not an 11% increase to accuracy. Yeah maybe this can help when you're shooting over 20km, but that's about it. And if you're doing this, well, you're doing it wrong. 

 

 

Flatly no.

 

BBs are not DPM machines like cruisers. If you are not constantly firing for the sake of firing itself, you are wasting the reload mod. Firing every time the weapons reload just means you are wasting shots into angled or maneuvering ships. BBs operate on alpha strikes - high damage one off salvos. USN dispersion mod plays into the BBs strength, better enabling you to eliminate targets earlier with more reliable alpha strikes.

 

The accuracy mod helps you from the first salvo, the reload mod helps a little bit on each salvo. AA mod is only useful against CVs... which means only a subsection of the games you will play. Nor will not save you against a Hak or Taiho that knows his stuff.

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14 hours ago, Braize said:

Every one of your reasons for taking the accuracy mod, is an argument to not take the accuracy mod. Stealth Montana plus 15k or closer engagements means that 11% reduction in shell dispersion is not helping you in any noticeable way. I'd also like to see your research on this 20% increase to your accuracy.  Or you can just simply not bother, because it's obvious that you are lying. 

 

I'm talking from personal experience.  No need to get your panties in a bunch over my opinion.  

I've changed back and forth about 5 times.  I have definitely noticed a huge difference in the amount of hits I score.  If you choose not to believe me, I honestly don't care.  

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I play Monty quite a bit. CVs hardly ever bother me.

All I can do is echo the others: take the dispersion mod. Absolutely no question on that one. Once you learn to shoot, you can get multiple hits out as far as you can shoot. 

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