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[Flamu] Clan Battles - What A S**tshow

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I usually agree with Flamu but this time I only partially agree with him.

  1. He is 100% right that WG should be balancing CVs instead of releasing CV Premium after Premium, that truly makes no sense.
  2. CVs are too powerful for competitive. It's not the damage it's the spotting which WG correctly points out.
  3. WG should not substitute Clan battles for Ranked, they should be in addition.
  4. Tier 10 is a poor choice, and rented ships even more so.
  5. Limiting the match to 1 Battleship makes no sense at Tier 10 since Moskva is basically a BB.
  6. With no CVs and 1 BB at Tier 10, teams are going to load up on Radar Cruisers which will be worse for DDs than a CV.

 

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He is starting to whine as much as Notser now.

 

It's good they took CV's out. Anyone 1 good CV player can mop the floor and especially a T10 one. It doesn't take rocket science to figure that one out.

 

Then his whole argument that giving away T10 ships to use is pretty funny. Most people these days have thousands of games... If they didn't improve by now... They never will. So it really doesn't matter in the end.

 

I'm sure once they make CV's potato proof... They will add them in.

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13 hours ago, MorbidGamer said:

He is starting to whine as much as Notser now.

 

It's good they took CV's out. Anyone 1 good CV player can mop the floor and especially a T10 one. It doesn't take rocket science to figure that one out.

 

Then his whole argument that giving away T10 ships to use is pretty funny. Most people these days have thousands of games... If they didn't improve by now... They never will. So it really doesn't matter in the end.

 

I'm sure once they make CV's potato proof... They will add them in.

You say that as implying that a Conqueror on the hands of an unicum bb player couldn't wipe the floor with the 3+ cruiser on the CW.

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44 minutes ago, Apokita said:

You say that as implying that a Conqueror on the hands of an unicum bb player couldn't wipe the floor with the 3+ cruiser on the CW.

 

1 conq will always beat a cruiser in a 1v1. You start adding more than that though and the heal quickly becomes null.

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Except that part where its going to be a conq and several cruisers versus another conq and several cruisers.

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27 minutes ago, Anumati said:

Except that part where its going to be a conq and several cruisers versus another conq and several cruisers.

 

What BB would you bring, and why?

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7 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

 

What BB would you bring, and why?

If WG hadn't spit in my face. It would be Conq. There is no reason to play any other t10 BB. They bring nothing to the table that Conq doesn't do better.

Angling BB or cruiser? Super HE

Stealth? Conq is stealhier than some equal tier cruisers and stealthiest of all t10 BBs

AA? Even if there /was/ CVs, conq still has just under montana AA when spec'd for it. Meaning it still is better than yamato and GK

Conq also has the best ability to tank in game. Its an RN CL upscaled with an extremely hard to hit citadel. Meaning it CAN NOT be punished hard like other BBs.

 

There is literally no reason to run anything but the super ship Conqueror.

https://imgur.com/a/RUGgI

It literally does everything with no weaknesses.

People talk about CVs having disproportionate effect on CW? They usually have no idea what they are talking about and have no idea what CV play is like at t8, let alone t10 where its even worse. Meanwhile the Conquerer will be crapping out super damage and super heals. Its going to be decided by Conquerors now in CW. CVs actually can counter it due to its spotting mechanics, but now that is a moot point.

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On 30/09/2017 at 11:59 AM, Anumati said:

WG is like a SJW with its double think and contradictions. Unable to give a straight answer when it comes to hard topics and refuses to work on something for the betterment of the community while instead spurting out lines of ships that are powercreeping others and doling out premium ships like its going out of style.

 

So... basically, WG is a business trying to suck up to multiple groups of players with conflicting priorities while trying to extract the maximum amount of money possible from as many of them as possible, at the cost of a product quality?

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You guys are highly overestimating Tier X CVs when in Tier X Clan Wars, they would only be seeing Tier X levels of AA.

 

FFS, you guys are talking like the AA capability of Montana, Des Moines, Moskva, Henri IV, Hindenburg don't exist.

 

This isn't like in Randoms where a Hakuryu is picking off a Tirpitz, Bismarck, and most of the Tier VIII Cruisers have worthless AA and mediocre AA range.  Tier X?  AA capability is at its zenith and found across more sources compared to lower tiers where great AA is isolated to something like 2 ships per tier.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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As far as Flamu's video:

 

- "WG promised so many things": Well, that'll teach you to believe a corporation's promises

 

- "CVs need to work so hard to top the scoreboards" Score =/= in game power.

 

- "They keep pumping out premium CVs". It's almost like WG only cares about cash, and doesn't give a damn about the quality of the product. It's almost like WG has no plans to actually fix CVs, because they have zero clue what to do with them, and are trying to squeeze whatever money they can out of the remaining CVs before they become too cynical to buy them.

 

- "How is a better CV stomping a bad one any different from experienced T10 players stomping on T8 renters".  WG already explained, the difference between a good CV and a bad CV is much greater than the difference between a good surface ship and bad surface ship.

 

- "It's an insult to players who ground out T10s to rent". Speak for yourself. I'm in favour of rentals, and I ground through old Ibuki and Izumo. Stock. With no premium.

 

- "You can't have competitive + casual". Sure you can. Separate by rank. Also, ranked was supposed to be competitive?

 

- "The gameplay is going to be a crapfest". Has competitive WoWS ever been anything else?

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15 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

You guys are highly overestimating Tier X CVs when in Tier X Clan Wars, they would only be seeing Tier X levels of AA.

 

FFS, you guys are talking like the AA capability of Montana, Des Moines, Moskva, Henri IV, Hindenburg don't exist.

 

This isn't like in Randoms where a Hakuryu is picking off a Tirpitz, Bismarck, and most of the Tier VIII Cruisers have worthless AA and mediocre AA range.  Tier X?  AA capability is at its zenith and found across more sources compared to lower tiers where great AA is isolated to something like 2 ships per tier.

not to mention those ships would most likely be in smoke, so getting an exact distance to stay safe with your planes wont be easy.   something like 8.8km on the mino or 8.2?  on the moskva will just pick planes off throughout the match, and that is before they even try to attack something, where DF comes into play if they have it.  and because of those giant bubbles, you could be running around in their AA zones as a DD and be relatively safe  from being spottted, unless that CV wanted to lose planes in exchange for possible damage.

 

planes would spot the torps, but as does hydro and vigilance(which without the need of AA, you can spec into), plus any spotting planes. 

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On 10/1/2017 at 5:08 AM, Pope_Shizzle said:

Neither Flamu, Notser nor any of the other loudmouth twits who are whining their eyes out over this version of CW bothered to participate and provide feedback in the testing process.  Lots of people from lots of clans across NA, EU and Russia participated.  It was an excellent process where lots of people tested, suggested and tested some more.  WG devs did a quite excellent job of trying CW in various modes at various tiers with and without CV's and ultimately came to the conclusion that the first season will be without CV's.  

 

Personally, I think this was the right call.  It opens the map up, allows for more diverse tactical play and once the smoke changes previously discussed come into play will make CW a truly fun and engaging experience.

 

So do I get a free respec on my AA Captains?

It's not a cost non Carrier driver / AA driver types have to incur.

But we do.

 

And when I get sick of Clan Wars and want to fight high tiers in Random, can I get another free respec then please?

 

Seriously

 

Rock. Paper. Scissors.

 

Taking carriers away is like removing "Paper" from the above

The chain is broken

 

 

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4 minutes ago, HMS_Formidable said:

 

So do I get a free respec on my AA Captains?

It's not a cost non Carrier driver / AA driver types have to incur.

But we do.

No, competitive play doesn't get freebies.  Just like raiding in WoW(arcraft).  You can use all that zillions of elite and/or free xp all you guys with thousands of battles talk about having to redo your captains.

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1 minute ago, mavfin87 said:

No, competitive play doesn't get freebies.  Just like raiding in WoW(arcraft).  You can use all that zillions of elite and/or free xp all you guys with thousands of battles talk about having to redo your captains.

 

But it does punish those who weren't psychic to realise that some styles of game play are more equal than others?

 

Right.

 

So no freebies.

Just being compelled into paying gold to respec your suitable Captains because your choice of ship/skill tree isn't flavour of the month...

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2 minutes ago, HMS_Formidable said:

 

But it does punish those who weren't psychic to realise that some styles of game play are more equal than others?

 

Right.

 

So no freebies.

Just being compelled into paying gold to respec your suitable Captains because your choice of ship/skill tree isn't flavour of the month...

No need to give away what you think you need to min/max properly.  That's on you.

 

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2 minutes ago, mavfin87 said:

No need to give away what you think you need to min/max properly.  That's on you.

 

 

Oh, I see

So my 19 point captain being effectively just a 12 point captain (because of useless AA skills)  in a CLAN scenario where everyone wants the best possible setups in their teams isn't going to be a problem to clan-mates?

What a wonderful world you must live in.

 

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2 minutes ago, HMS_Formidable said:

 

Oh, I see

So my 19 point captain being effectively just a 12 point captain (because of useless AA skills)  in a CLAN scenario where everyone wants the best possible setups in their teams isn't going to be a problem to clan-mates?

What a wonderful world you must live in.

Sure, you can have your free captain respec as soon as the rest of the players of WoWS get one to use when they need it.  Otherwise, you don't need a special one for your competitive play.  Not our fault you feel the need to min/max.  If you're really the great competitive player, you should already have extra captains for CW ready.

Edited by mavfin87

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On 9/30/2017 at 1:40 PM, Retnav54 said:

It's not about handing out participation trophies, it's about members of this community being told they can't participate PERIOD - at least not in the class of ship they've devoted considerable time, effort, and most likely money, to become good in. And from my own limited efforts trying out carriers, I daresay it's probably the hardest class to become good at. Essentially, WG has told a portion of their playerbase that because they've done such a poor job of balancing ship classes and game mechanics over the past 2 years, that they're simply going to take the easy way out and simply prohibit them from playing the ship class they prefer in Clan Battles, instead of actually fixing their bloody game.

For my perspective, in so many words, WG has basically told CV mains "you're not part of our community". I don't blame any of them that take this as the last straw and exit stage left.

 

+!

Yep, CV mains (and captains with good AA ship builds) really got the big heave ho from WG.  And I agree with your assessment since I would guess if CVs were balanced properly this would not have happened. 

I do think that with only 7 v 7, the team with the best CV captain would have a big advantage and could easily tilt each battle given the small number of ships.

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1 hour ago, HMS_Formidable said:

 

Oh, I see

So my 19 point captain being effectively just a 12 point captain (because of useless AA skills)  in a CLAN scenario where everyone wants the best possible setups in their teams isn't going to be a problem to clan-mates?

What a wonderful world you must live in.

 

 

When you load into a random game with your AA maxed setup and get a game with no CV, does WG pause things and give you a chance to change your setup for free?  That said, I'm not going to respec a single captain. Randoms are the main game mode I play.  I don't expect that will change.  Tier 10's are my favorite ships.  Not going to change them for a game mode I'll play maybe 5% of the time.  

 

If you're a good player, your clan will use you regardless whether you have the perfect captain setup.  If they don't, find other people to play with because they're not worth your time or effort.

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Flamu gave me cancer with this video. I can't stand him or anything he says. Seriously, he is rude and uncouth as all hell.

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3 hours ago, Taichunger said:

 

What BB would you bring, and why?

1 Yamato - can overmatch anything

5 Moskva - 5 Radars, can bow tank everything but Yamato. That may radars guarantee DDs a quick death

1 Z-52 - Hydro and smoke, can bully other DDs

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1 hour ago, CaptainTeddybear said:

1 Yamato - can overmatch anything

5 Moskva - 5 Radars, can bow tank everything but Yamato. That may radars guarantee DDs a quick death

1 Z-52 - Hydro and smoke, can bully other DDs

 

5 Moskva! The team from hell. I expect people will also bring Hindenburgs, better guns and tankier. Bow on Moskva is tough, but if she turns she's dog meat.

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10 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

 

5 Moskva! The team from hell. I expect people will also bring Hindenburgs, better guns and tankier. Bow on Moskva is tough, but if she turns she's dog meat.

it will depend on the map and how they play.  A Dm while not as tanky, can be really effective on an island heavy map.

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5 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

You guys are highly overestimating Tier X CVs when in Tier X Clan Wars, they would only be seeing Tier X levels of AA.

 

FFS, you guys are talking like the AA capability of Montana, Des Moines, Moskva, Henri IV, Hindenburg don't exist.

 

This isn't like in Randoms where a Hakuryu is picking off a Tirpitz, Bismarck, and most of the Tier VIII Cruisers have worthless AA and mediocre AA range.  Tier X?  AA capability is at its zenith and found across more sources compared to lower tiers where great AA is isolated to something like 2 ships per tier.

 

You're talking like we will be seeing Montana or Des Moines in clan wars.

 

Moskva sure, but it's AA isn't that great.  Henri sure, and it's AA is better than Moskva but still not great.  Hindenburg could give up hydro to get good AA, or run AFT/MAA to have reasonable AA.

 

The problem with CVs in T8 competitive is the amount of focus that one ship commands.  All other ships are chosen for their AA ability.  The only ships that show up in SL that don't have great AA are the Amagi and the Lo Yang.  There are very good reasons for both of those and they are worth having either an AA escord (Amagi) or CV babysitting (Lo Yang).  

 

If T10 7v7 battles included CVs you would see the exact same thing.  Every captain would have AFT. depending on the ship type it would likely have MAA or BFT too. Everyone would have the AA range module.  When there is a CV in game any option that isn't AA is a false choice, you take the AA always.  

 

In the current CW rule set you'll see more CA out of a 7 ship line up than you do in SL.  That's a good thing.

 

Now I agree with Flamu that the proper way to handle it is to nerf CV and BB down to the point it's not needed to limit their numbers anymore.  But if they are unable/unwilling to do that, then the next best thing is limiting them.

 

Put another way, imagine a world where BB aren't limited and CV are limited to 1.  Every team will look something like 1 CV, 1-2 DD, 1 Moskva for radar, 3-4 BB.  Mostly Conq and Montana for the AA.

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On 9/30/2017 at 7:12 PM, Apokita said:

EVERYONE WHO SAYS THAT A CARRIER WILL LIGHT THE MAP AND THAT DD WILL HAVE NO ROOM TO PLAY AROUND HAS NEVER PLAYED A CARRIER.

I can't stress this enough. Carriers can't light the map totally, even less on T10 where your planes can just be on the edge of the aa bubble to spot because of the insane ranges of the high tier antiair. 
We all know wargaming NEVER played a carrier game in their life, none of their employees know how to carrier, and seems like everyone who defends them here does not aswell.

This is NA what do you expect

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