Conq is hardly OP

[Taichunger]

Warships Today is temporarily up, and the NA data is in. Here is the data for win rates for T10 BBs, solo, overall, NA:

GK  50.11%

Yam 49.79%

Conk 49.51%

Monty 48.18%

Here is the same data for two weeks:

 

GK  50.47%

Conk 49.75%

Yam 49.20%

Monty 48.54%

 

The reason I use Solo data is because it gets rid of the effect of divisions, and shows the true carry potential of the ship: in Solo a ship has to carry, or else. Conk data has fallen over time, just as many of us predicted. The truth is that Conq gets gaudy damage numbers but doesn't win, because when the time comes to carry and kill ships with AP, it only has UK Almost Piercing^TM, and can't do it. I've already reached the point where I like seeing Conks on the other team because I know it doesn't help them.

On the EU server in overall win rate Solo Conk is first by a tiny margin, 50.23% over GK's 50.21%. In two weeks' data, GK is comfortably ahead, 50.53% to 50.06%. Conq is again falling over time. Only on Asia server is the Conk leading by a strong margin in both sets of data. There are no two weeks numbers on RU so I assume it is new. 

Despite the complaints, the data show clearly that Conk is well balanced. 

[Admiral_Thrawn_1]

Maybe they get it confused with the Conqueror Tank data since they have the same name???

[renegadestatuz]

21 minutes ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Maybe they get it confused with the Conqueror Tank data since they have the same name???

No.

[Parliament_Funkadelic]

OP no way.....just because RNBB's have five of the top nine damage producing BB's in the game and the Conqueror is 16k over its closest competitor....it needs a buff......

[aAkula]

I use AP.

[Crucis]

1 hour ago, Taichunger said:

Warships Today is temporarily up, and the NA data is in. Here is the data for win rates for T10 BBs, solo, overall, NA:

GK  50.11%

Yam 49.79%

Conk 49.51%

Monty 48.18%

Here is the same data for two weeks:

 

GK  50.47%

Conk 49.75%

Yam 49.20%

Monty 48.54%

 

The reason I use Solo data is because it gets rid of the effect of divisions, and shows the true carry potential of the ship: in Solo a ship has to carry, or else. Conk data has fallen over time, just as many of us predicted. The truth is that Conq gets gaudy damage numbers but doesn't win, because when the time comes to carry and kill ships with AP, it only has UK Almost Piercing^TM, and can't do it. I've already reached the point where I like seeing Conks on the other team because I know it doesn't help them.

On the EU server in overall win rate Solo Conk is first by a tiny margin, 50.23% over GK's 50.21%. In two weeks' data, GK is comfortably ahead, 50.53% to 50.06%. Conq is again falling over time. Only on Asia server is the Conk leading by a strong margin in both sets of data. There are no two weeks numbers on RU so I assume it is new. 

Despite the complaints, the data show clearly that Conk is well balanced. 

Tai, I don't know that WR is really a solid or at least a complete argument in favor of whether a ship is balanced or not.

Regardless, what I've come to think from watching a number of Conqueror youtube replays is that it's a great ship for softening up the enemy and doing a lot of damage.  But at the same time, if you really want to get an enemy ship killed quickly, it's not really the best, because AP is what gets the job done quickly, whereas HE is more of a slow DoT tool.  Nice for wearing the enemy down, but not a completely reliable way of deleting BBs in a hurry.  (Obviously, RN BB HE should be great for manhandling enemy DDs.)

I'm not entirely sure how that would translate to WR, because one also has to factor in proper use of the Conq's excellent heals.

[SgtSpud]

This is the result I get from Warships today ..NA and it is actually up.... this is ALL not solo. I suspect that the small amount of games played has a lot to do with the numbers. But I can tell you from experience that it is ridiculously easy to rack up damage in the conq.

 

[awiggin]

Still out out damaging everything else by a mile.....Not sure W/R is really the only measurement of OP...

[Parliament_Funkadelic]

49 minutes ago, SgtSpud said:

This is the result I get from Warships today ..NA and it is actually up.... this is ALL not solo. I suspect that the small amount of games played has a lot to do with the numbers. But I can tell you from experience that it is ridiculously easy to rack up damage in the conq.

 

Run that same filter but don't limit it to tier ten, just all BB's....... Tier 7 BB's outperforming nines....its bad mojo.

[Delicious_Flat_Chest]

the sample pool is to small, just gonna have to wait for at least 100k to have less skewed results.

[Vinidoanker]

So nerf ????? Can you all just shut up for a few month. My zao and dm really love to burn that ship. And it keep healing and burning. All u need is spotting dd.thats all.

 They say gk is op when it got released, but not now anymore. So just shut up. Nothing is op bout that ship.everthing can be kill in the game.

[Speedstang]

The problem is the ship just came out, and if people were able to grind the ship that fast, then it's pretty obvious they can play it well, thus heavily skewing the stats. Not enough potatoes and casuals (oh wait, what's the difference again?) that own it yet to give proper results.

 

[Vinidoanker]

2 minutes ago, Speedstang said:

The problem is the ship just came out, and if people were able to grind the ship that fast, then it's pretty obvious they can play it well... Thus heavily skewing the stats. Not enough potatoes and casuals (oh wait, what's the difference again?) that own it yet to give proper results.

 

I agree. . and some other player just learning slowly how to encounter the conq and how to fight it.

[anonymised]

3 hours ago, aAkula said:

I use AP.

I use AP from the 457s. I've always been a hipster though.

 

For real though, i do. And this setup rewards good aim like you would not believe. 

[Taichunger]

4 hours ago, aAkula said:

I use AP.

 

I use a lot of AP too. It racks up big damage numbers. But you're unicum, so you could shoot toothpicks and still get 150K damage games. We ordinary mortals are not so good.

[Taichunger]

4 hours ago, Crucis said:

Tai, I don't know that WR is really a solid or at least a complete argument in favor of whether a ship is balanced or not.

Regardless, what I've come to think from watching a number of Conqueror youtube replays is that it's a great ship for softening up the enemy and doing a lot of damage.  But at the same time, if you really want to get an enemy ship killed quickly, it's not really the best, because AP is what gets the job done quickly, whereas HE is more of a slow DoT tool.  Nice for wearing the enemy down, but not a completely reliable way of deleting BBs in a hurry.  (Obviously, RN BB HE should be great for manhandling enemy DDs.)

I'm not entirely sure how that would translate to WR, because one also has to factor in proper use of the Conq's excellent heals.

 

WR is not. But look at a ship everyone agrees is OP, the Nik. It gets big damage and good WR. Conk only gets one of those, the big damage. Ditto for Belfast, which has gaudy damage and WR. Conk does massive damage.... but the impact on WR isn't there. Hence, WG did a better job balancing these ships than people give them credit for. 

[Padoru_]

Just look at the average damage and survivability.

 

I hate apologist.

[Ajax_the_Great1]

Sitting at range and racking up damage doesn't win you games.

[Crucis]

27 minutes ago, Ajax_the_Great1 said:

Sitting at range and racking up damage doesn't win you games.

The thing with the Conq is that if you're farming fire damage and the enemy is doing a good job of healing it back, you may end up doing more than 100% of a given ship's HP base..  But if you use AP, you're limiting the ability of the target ship to heal it back, but at the same time, you can't farm as much damage from a target that's not able to heal a greater percentage of the damage you've done to him.  Sure, if your team happens to win and you had a nice, gaudy damage total from all that HE and fire damage, you may earn lots of credits and XP.  But is that really as productive for the purposes of winning as the other BB who may have used 100% AP, gotten the exact same number of hits, with a normal spread of over-pens, normal damage, and citadels, but probably didn't do as much raw damage because he wasn't able to re-farm as much damage from the enemy due to his damage being AP based rather than HE/fire based?

[anonym_OlK73e329bMY]

It's mostly people who are heavily invested into WoWs/play a lot who already have a Conqueror, and that's inflating the numbers a bit I'm sure.

[WhatIsTheOdds]

Haven't played Conqueror yet, I do have the KGV and it's obviously considerably overturned. Judging by how the conqueror also has no weakness it is probably the same deal. 

[anonymised]

1 hour ago, Ajax_the_Great1 said:

Sitting at range and racking up damage doesn't win you games.

Spot on.

If you play it this way, you're at the whim of the rest of your team and if there's one thing this game has taught me, it's that you can't rely on randoms. You have to do it yourself. lol witherer at 5 minutes in a loss, I don't care. I like to win games.

I made the switch from HE to AP and so far today, my average damage has plummeted, but I have started winning. Because I play it like a Missouri/Montana, not a Zao.

The strength of this ship is the tanking. I push in so people focus me with loads to the fo'csle, and others push in around me and do boat loads of damage while I take the hits for them. Then, when everyone is dead, I heal it up. OMG IS THIS WHAT IS A BATTLESHIPPING!?!? have I cracked the code????? Imagine if I was actually a battleship player.

 

[CaptainTeddybear]

The ship is definitely ...

 

Ummm, I mean to say I just got mine yesterday. Ship is fine. May need a buff.

[yashma]

7 hours ago, Crucis said:

The thing with the Conq is that if you're farming fire damage and the enemy is doing a good job of healing it back, you may end up doing more than 100% of a given ship's HP base..  But if you use AP, you're limiting the ability of the target ship to heal it back, but at the same time, you can't farm as much damage from a target that's not able to heal a greater percentage of the damage you've done to him.  Sure, if your team happens to win and you had a nice, gaudy damage total from all that HE and fire damage, you may earn lots of credits and XP.  But is that really as productive for the purposes of winning as the other BB who may have used 100% AP, gotten the exact same number of hits, with a normal spread of over-pens, normal damage, and citadels, but probably didn't do as much raw damage because he wasn't able to re-farm as much damage from the enemy due to his damage being AP based rather than HE/fire based?

I had one battle in which I did over 100k damage to a single Montana, I did not know that at the time because by the time I died the enemy Montana still had a solid 45k HP left.  The Conquerer is really just the ultimate cruiser.  It's not that tanky and even with the super heal it does not last long on the front lines in the face of intense focus fire.  But if a Conqueror is allowed to sit back and provide supporting fire....then it enters the realm of being overpowered.

Just imagine you get in a brawl with another BB, maybe his secondaries keep setting you on fire, and there might be a threat of torps.  If there is a Conquerer sitting back shooting you, it is going to be hell.  10k damage and fires every 30 seconds adds up, it's hard to manage your DCP and the steady loss of HP puts you at a significant disadvantage in your fight.  On top of that you can't really ignore the BB right in front of you, which is the immediate threat.
 

6 hours ago, NeoRussia said:

Haven't played Conqueror yet, I do have the KGV and it's obviously considerably overturned. Judging by how the conqueror also has no weakness it is probably the same deal. 

The Conquerer has one major weaknesses.  Namely that it is covered in 32mm armor.  This means two things....
 

1. It is highly susceptible to HE spam.  Even with that supper heal, if you're eating 5k-10k volleys of HE every 10 seconds, your HP pool is going to disappear alarmingly quick.  Between the bow, super structure and vast areas of exposed deck, there is a much larger area where HE shells can pen, and in turn there are a lot more areas that need to be damaged before saturation kicks in.  If you can sit back where you can avoid being focused so as to let your heal and DCP cope with the incoming damage, then you are entering OP territory, but if you try and tank on the front lines you will melt.
2. It is highly susceptible to Yamato's.  The Yamato overmatches your deck and bow, and will absolute shred a Conquerer no matter how she angles.....especially at long ranges where the arcs of her shells allows her to consistently hit the deck armor as well.  Last battle I played in the Conquerer a Yamato ended up doing around 90k damage to me, despite me being angled around 45 degrees for most of the fight.....with just 30 shell hits.  *Edit, but it is wroth noting she managed to get a freak citadel on me.    

 

I have never much paid serious attention to it, but I've started to notice something interesting about the Conquerer's potential damage vs damage tanked ratio.  Namely, my potential damage always seems low for the amount of damage I've actually taken, or at least compared to the figures I can pull off in the Missouri.  

[knice_destroyer]

My only problem with the ship is that you cannot get an alpha strike on it in any situation because of the underwater citadel.  Yes it will eat pens for days like all the British bbs, but the line can sail full broadside and not get punished for it.  That is powercreep at its finest.  And quite frankly [edited].  And for all those that say otherwise are kidding themselves or don't want the ship nerfed because they know playing these ships are easy mode.