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Pigeon, AA isn't the answer

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Alpha Tester
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12,191 battles

I can't post in that section for whatever reason, so I'm saying this here @Pigeon_of_War 


 21 hours ago, comtedumas said:

Right now manual drops are prevented in Tier 4&5. Let’s change that up.  Make T4 manual DB drops only.  Make T5 manual TB and DB drops.  Leave T6 as it is.  That lets people learn how do do manual drops slowly and doesn’t kick them off the pier with no instruction.  A first walkthrough mission would be nice too.  


- Our research from a while ago made CVs at lower tiers too powerful due to the ship AA complements at Low tiers. We will likely keep it as it is for now. 


Your right, at low tiers, manual drops were insanely OP, and strafing a huge issue especially as players learned the game vs basically clubbers.


But the AA at tier 6+ doesn't make this any less OP when a CV finds a scenario it's planes can get through the AA. And you have deprived them of learning it as they go from start to tier 6 and worse yet, made tier 5 easily beat up upon by the fact tier 6, already having an edge usually, now can strafe while they cannot. The only difference between a tier 4, and a tier 10, if those bombers get through, is hitpoint pool, maybe protection. It's no less overpowered at any of the other tiers than it is at 4 and 5. But of course you have the duality that is why players are screaming from both sides that carriers are OP, and carriers are underpowered. Yes, if it makes it through AA, the planes can cause that devastation. Usually, that's maybe equal tier planes, typically, it's a higher tier CV vs a lower tier ship. Because in these desperate bids to balance a broken mechanic, you have buffed AA to a point a CV player is the hero or a goat. Pulling numbers I math'd out yesterday, at the highest tiers -


Montana - Base of 40 mm and 127 mm - 475 which leads to 18.6% chance every second you shoot a plane down. Now, lets add in BFT and focusing that group - that's 29% chance to down a plane every second. Lets suppose now they have to get in range of the 20 mm AA gun. That's 40.9% chance every second.


Minotaur - Minotaur, BFT and focus, 26.5%


Des Moines, only her long range AA, base 425 for 16.6%, but BFT and and focus 26%, Des I assume has the ability to run Defensive Fire, which auto buffs that number to 78% chance to down a plane every second.


And that is against the maximum HP tier X planes.


Take Shokaku's TB's, most HP at tier, with the 5% boost they can get. Minotaur in same scenario as above jumps to 37.4% without it's 20 mm guns, Des is 36.7,%, without it's 20 mm guns, but, press the DF consumable button, well, those long range guns get a multiplier that makes it 110% chance per second a plane is destroyed when focused. Though, I assume it just caps at 100 either way, every second your plane ends up in that AA field you lose a plane. Montana, 41% BFT and focus with just the 40 mm guns and the 127's. And here is the more frightening thing for these ships - they all have a slot easily dedicated to an upgrade of 25% DPS, almost the same as just focusing them. So even without selecting a target, they can achieve these numbers for 3 skill points and an upgrade. Montana mounts that upgrade, it just jumped to 51.2% every second. And that's without the 20 mm guns still. That is without 10% DPS from a flag. That is without what some run manual AA. Now factor in that DB's have terrible accuracy as it is, less hit points, and HAVE to fly into 20 mm gun range. An Independence against tier 8 ships, it's strongest planes are DB's, the most HP of their tier, and just against the mid-long range guns of a NC that focuses them with BFT is 46.6% a second. Against Bismarck, a BB guaranteed to have BFT, 28.3% just from the 37 mm ad 105 mm guns. That Bismarck has all it's 20 mm guns taken out, any squadron that spends more than 6 seconds in AA is losing likely half it's planes. Have to attack that NC, well, you basically lose a plane every 2 seconds your in range.


Your attempts at buffing AA to counter manual drops have just made things worse for everyone. You just need to flat out remove it at all tiers. Especially given by tier 7 at least, most captains know if you brought torp planes, focus them, and when they get shredded, all that's left are DB's that even with manual drop against a parked CV straight along the bloody deck they can somehow miss. And you still have fighters between natural DPS and the equally as broken strafe mechanic, though at least that one just needs the damage multiplier turned down to be more a debuff, maybe a tweak that it lowers fighter DPS as well.


Though you also need to fix fighters too because removing it at low tiers has again revealed something I have been saying since Alpha about, IJN vs USN fighters. USN fighter group that is tier 5 has a 21.3% chance per second to down an IJN tier 6 plane. IJN has a 16.1% chance, and it takes a much bigger loss in chances when it loses planes. And it basically stays like that through every tier and "numbers" is not really helping. Having USN be "the Air Superiority" carrier and IJN the "Fleet Destroying" carrier, is not working. You guys need to flip these shoot down chance numbers and balance out CV setups so that say, taking tier 6, USN AS is 2,0,1, IJN is 2,1,2 or maybe just 2,0,3 - or not have AS as an option and have 1,1,1 and 1,2,2 while USN, which really has the DB focus and the numbers per group to really use them gets more accurate DB's, and has the higher HP planes to make it through AA to deal the damage while IJN yes, gets more planes in the air but are more susceptible to AA so it loses that strike potential a bit faster and DB's aren't as accurate, it's on the TB's mostly for damage. You tweak USN and IJN ammo that basically IJN comes in hitting hard but burns it's ammo while USN just has ammo for days by comparison, though less than the somewhat absurd numbers they seem to have currently, that they can pick off the rest of the IJN planes when they run out or disengage and go chase the bombers while IJN has to rearm it's fighters.


USN with the changes to DB's to be more accurate, and fighters that essentially stay aloft longer, leans itself more to fleet defense and attacking the lighter ships, and has the ability to better survive those attacks while IJN with it's rapid reload and swarming is more suited with it's ability to launch multiple TB's is better geared to go BB and CV hunting. Both have the ability to control the skies, albeit slightly different ways, both can still attack the other targets, the TB's are just easier to dodge for smaller/nimbler ships and Fires do take time to burn down a BB. With the ships as is keeping that USN CV's have the better AA armament and IJN better detection range. Giving you two lines with unique play styles, meant for slightly different purposes, that are still all round enough to not be bad if IJN is in a match of naught but light cruisers and DD's and USN in a match heavy on BB's. Especially if you remove manual drops so we can tone down AA from some of these insane numbers.

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12,707 posts
14,320 battles

High tier AA is meant to be strong thanks to having more squadrons to deal with and later in the war navies did learn the value of having effective AA on their ships.


I have no problem with the balance and I play all the classes so I feel it's fair as a CV player and as one who has to defend against air attacks with surface ships. And often being full AA spec means you are sacrificing in some other areas so just send your allies to attack the main threats to your planes.

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