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Merlox

Any hope of finishing 2nd tier 10 line?

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I would love to see the Super Akizuki and what ever the Russians can decide to make for a paper ship to finish the tier line. 

 

Thoughts? or do you guys think they'll never give it to us?

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I kinda would like to see something in the way to counter dds a little better, There is only one dedicated CL line in the form of the Russian ships that can deal with dds at higher tiers but a second line would be better like the US CL line We have plenty of dds right now. and Yes I play dds.

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3 hours ago, donaldEpott said:

I kinda would like to see something in the way to counter dds a little better, There is only one dedicated CL line in the form of the Russian ships that can deal with dds at higher tiers but a second line would be better like the US CL line We have plenty of dds right now. and Yes I play dds.

 

I agree and here's to hoping that the american CL line split will do that. But this is really just saying "WG, why stop at tier 8 on a line, please finish it... There's the Super Akizuki at least. =/

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My thoughts are to add an Ayanami for T7 or 8 after Fubuki or Akatsuki, then Kagero for T9, Shima for 10 in the Torp Line, while the Yugumo is moved to the gunboat branch at the same Tier 9.

Not sure about Tier 10 though, or just converge T10 to Shima for both lines? idk. Thoughts?
 

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A Yugumo at tier 9 in the gunboat branch would be taking a step back towards the woeful Shiratsuyu, making the Akizuki stand out as an oddball ship which requires a completely different captain skillset and playstyle from the ships before and after it.

 

Which means it's exactly what Wargaming are going to do.

 

Ideally of course they'd bump Akizuki to tier 9, insert a Super Akizuki at tier 10, and come up with some "Kagero with 3x 100mm twin turrets on it" testbed/design sketch :cap_like: to stick at tier 8, but when do the ideals ever happen?

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Edited my thoughts, so yea, Yugumo or a gun-oriented Kagero at T8, Akizuki at T9, and Akizuki Kai (Super-Aki or whatever WG names the ship) at T10

Edited by 3li7e_NGineer42O

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On ‎9‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 7:34 PM, donaldEpott said:

There is only one dedicated CL line in the form of the Russian ships that can deal with dds at higher tiers but a second line would be better like the US CL line

Could you please then tell me what type of ships those Royal Navy cruisers are?

And are you seriously telling me that you think Moskva is a CL?

Don, you need to re-do your homework!

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With the flat trajectory of the shells that Russian CL's have they are the best at taking on dds. Yes the Moskva is out of the CA line and I was not talking about it.... British CLs suffer from having only AP to choose from and HE is best at dealing with dds. I have done my homework.

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On ‎1‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 7:24 AM, donaldEpott said:

I have done my homework.

Lets bet on that, shall we? Russia sports 3 CL's in her silver line; Budyonny, Shchors, and Chapayev. Neither Kirov nor Donskoi are CL's because their gun caliber is over 7 inches. Bud and Shchors are both mid-tier cruisers.

So the DEDICATED Russian line which can deal with DD's at high tiers is ... one ship. (and 2 at mid-tier).

On ‎1‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 7:24 AM, donaldEpott said:

Yes the Moskva is out of the CA line

Actually, with a main battery of guns over 9 inches, Moskva is into the Battlecruiser range. (argueably, I'll grant)

On ‎1‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 7:24 AM, donaldEpott said:

British CLs suffer from having only AP to choose from and HE is best at dealing with dds.

Since we're talking HIGH tier here, ask any DD player who's faced an Edinburg, a Neptune, or a Minotaur if only having AP gave them any problems with handling DD's.

On ‎1‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 7:24 AM, donaldEpott said:

With the flat trajectory of the shells that Russian CL's have they are the best at taking on dds.

Besides the USN line of cruisers, which lines DON'T have flat trajectories?

On ‎1‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 7:24 AM, donaldEpott said:

I have done my homework.

Disagree.

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On 1/13/2018 at 6:24 AM, donaldEpott said:

With the flat trajectory of the shells that Russian CL's have they are the best at taking on dds.

RN CLs have at least as nice a trajectory as Russian CLs do, for the ranges which you'll usually be shooting at DDs - 10km and under.  The difference is trivial enough not to matter with even a little practice.

On 1/13/2018 at 6:24 AM, donaldEpott said:

British CLs suffer from having only AP to choose from and HE is best at dealing with dds.

British AP is "short fuse" AP, and thus does VERY large amounts of damage to thin-skinned ships. I.e. DDs and CLs.  It almost never shatters on DD armor (well, except the Khab's), and doesn't bounce very often. It also does full pen damage regularly - so regularly, that the large majority of RN CL AP hits on a DD are pens.  And each AP pen is almost 50% more than the average damage than an equivalent-tier USSR CL does with an HE pen.

Budyonny/Shcohrs/Chappy HE does 2200 max, 766 on a pen.

Leander/Fiji/Edinburgh AP does 3100 max, 1033 on a pen.

The USSR ships all have 8 second reloads, and 25 second turret rotation, with 9 or 12 guns.  They also turn like a pig.

The RN ships all have 7.5 second reloads with just under 26 second turret rotation, with 8 or 12 guns. They turn on a dime.

RN ships have Hydro, always. USSR ships have to give up most of their AA power (which they desperately need due to having AA mediocre otherwise, and a complete inability to dodge well) to get Hydro. 

USSR CLs have superior torpedoes for knife fighting, but at the cost of them being completely useless at anything other than point-blank range. The Budyonny also has better armor than RN CLs - good enough to resist DD AP. But neither the Shcohrs or Chappy have that, and are on par with the RN CLs.  And neither RN nor USSR CLs have anti-torp bulges.

 

RN CLs have only slightly less HP than USSR CLs, plus they have 2 heals. Including the Edinburgh's "superheal".

RN CLs also have the second best concealment (behind IJN - though it's close). USSR CLs you can see from practically the other side of the map. Worse, the in-smoke detection range of a USSR CL is over 1km more than a RN CL , enough that DDs can get a lot of notice that you're coming.  The superior speed of the USSR CLs is mostly useless for anti-DD work.

At higher tiers, USSR cruisers come with radar. RN cruisers have to give up smoke to get it, and thus seldom do. Radar is certainly a huge threat to DDs, but it's mostly a TEAM threat, not a ship one. That is, radar enable your TEAM to murder DDs, and is much less useful if its only your ship with it.

 

It boils down to this:  RN CLs can knife fight with DDs, and smear them. They can mid-range fight with DDs, and smear them. They can even do pretty decently at long-range, due to a great volume of fire and the ability to bring the rear guns into action easily.  They're also more than nimble enough to dodge close-in torp launches from the DD. 

USSR CLs can't knife-fight well - while they run a decent chance of killing the DD, they run a VERY high chance of dying to it's torpedoes. Making it worse, they have difficulty bringing their rear turret(s) to bear. At mid-range they are quite dangerous, particularly the Chappy with Radar, but are still vulnerable to well-timed torp spreads, and have little ability to maneuver enough to keep inside a DD's concealment range - the DD simply reverses course and the USSR CL can't follow. 

In all honesty, pretty much all cruisers are equally good at long-range (13km+) anti-DD fire, as at that point, it's more about volume of fire than it is aim.

 

RN CLs are DDs worst nightmare. USSR ones, not so much - they're mostly dangerous to DD in the mid-range (8km or so) where they can sail broadside for at least a while.  Honestly, I don't rate USSR CLs any more dangerous to DDs than US ones, and only somewhat more than French or Japanese ones.

 

I, and most good RN drivers I've seen, have ZERO problems taking on 2 equal or higher tier DDs at the same time, even at a knife range of 3km or less. That can't be said for USSR CLs, where the lack of maneuverability is deadly.  Conversely, even as a good DD player, I run from RN CLs. Fast. Russian CLs? Well, since I can see them from the moon and they maneuver like a brick, it's pretty easy to avoid them.


 

On 1/13/2018 at 6:24 AM, donaldEpott said:

 I have done my homework.

No, it appears you haven't. 

Edited by EAnybody

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