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Lord_Zath

Zath's thoughts on upcoming Clan Wars

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I'll just say it right now - I'm excited.  

 

Spoiler

 

 

I'm excited because this is Ranked but with people I know and enjoy playing with.

 

Spoiler

Despite how much I hate Ranked, I do enjoy a different game mode and the different meta.  My biggest complaint with Ranked was not playing with anyone I knew unless I sync-dropped.  Now I'll know everyone I play with!

 

I'm excited because there's no CVs.  

 

Spoiler

I avoided games in Ranked with CVs like the plague.  Whenever I hit the Battle button I hovered my finger over ESC, ready to rush back to port as soon as I saw 2 CVs in the queue.  Why?  Because those are usually the most one-sided matches in Ranked.  One CV sucks, one CV is great.  Better hope you're on the team with the great CV! 

 

I'm excited because this will force me to play my Tier 10s more.

Spoiler

I don't like losing credits but at the same time don't care to buy the perma-camo since I have 180 million credits anyways :).  So now I have a reason to play'em!

 

I'm excited because aside from UKBB, I've already ground all other lines to Tier X and have no real reason to play the game (other than Ranked).

Spoiler

Grinding elite commander xp only goes so far!  At some point, the burnout begins!

 

 

For those of you who are upset with the upcoming CW, I suggest you do the following:

1.  Give it a try BEFORE forming opinions.  

2.  Leave constructive feedback to Wargaming.

3.  Look on the bright side - Tier VIII will be fun again with everyone playing their Tier X's in CW (I'm excited).  

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Lord_Zath said:

I'll just say it right now - I'm excited.

Zath all people are going to do is play Khabs. Wargaming needs to do some serious large-scale testing before putting this online. The way they want it now will just end badly.

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I agree with T VIII being more exciting, with the tx crowd busy in CW. Still I am disappointed with the absence of CVs from clan wars, it gives the wrong signal and smacks of a loss of confidence. Of course let's give it a try, or better, enjoy it for what it is.

One observation : 

I played a game with Lord_Zath on my team recently, with my Lexington. I did well, not because of my undoubtebdly brilliant CV skills, but because the team made opportunities available to my strike Lexington, straight through a friendly AA bubble, delivering direct to the enemy; strike after strike, leaving me with 4 kills at the end if the match, kills I only obtained thanks to teamwork. LZ may remember that fight (?) from snarky comments I made (about my appalling WR and PR), a battle we were supposed to lose according to some other team mates (because in their view I was the worse CV driver of the match). But we didn't lose, because teamwork won the match, not my CV. This is to say, the plain evidence contradicts LZ.

All in all, happy to agree and disagree. Also a sensible and clearly stated alternative to the current rants and raging, which has the unfortunate consequence of denying me gratuitious publicity for POPCORN

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WG basically told CV players to find a new game to play.

 

But it seems people like that, so I guess WG isn't wrong?

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At least there is some positivity in this whole thing. 

 

Good on ya Zath for being positive! :cap_like:

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2 minutes ago, Doomlock said:

At least there is some positivity in this whole thing. 

 

Good on ya Zath for being positive! :cap_like:

You can only polish a turd of an idea with a lot of study and hard work (as Mythbusters proved) but @Lord_Zath @Doomlock. Wargaming needs to do a lot more testing before releasing this, this version is basically a middle finger to CV players and BB players. The only people with any benifit in this version are the DDs and to a smaller extent the CA's. if Wargaming wants this done properly they need to do extensive testing and think this through. Wargaming could have easily made it like Supremacy League, that system has worked before and is still working, i don't see why Wargaming decided to take a tried and proven system and simply ignore it.

 

in summary I think Wargaming is going too quickly with this in an attempt to say "We got Clan Wars in before the Year ended!". @SuperNikoPower @Pigeon_of_War Tell Wargaming they need to delay this, we can wait till 2018 as long as it's balanced for all of the ship classes and fun, Wargaming is doing this too quickly. This will end up like the Graf Zepplin fiasco.

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1 hour ago, nuttybiscuit said:

I agree with T VIII being more exciting, with the tx crowd busy in CW. Still I am disappointed with the absence of CVs from clan wars, it gives the wrong signal and smacks of a loss of confidence. Of course let's give it a try, or better, enjoy it for what it is.

One observation : 

I played a game with Lord_Zath on my team recently, with my Lexington. I did well, not because of my undoubtebdly brilliant CV skills, but because the team made opportunities available to my strike Lexington, straight through a friendly AA bubble, delivering direct to the enemy; strike after strike, leaving me with 4 kills at the end if the match, kills I only obtained thanks to teamwork. LZ may remember that fight (?) from snarky comments I made (about my appalling WR and PR), a battle we were supposed to lose according to some other team mates (because in their view I was the worse CV driver of the match). But we didn't lose, because teamwork won the match, not my CV. This is to say, the plain evidence contradicts LZ.

All in all, happy to agree and disagree. Also a sensible and clearly stated alternative to the current rants and raging, which has the unfortunate consequence of denying me gratuitious publicity for POPCORN

 

Yes, I remember your game.  For the record, your stats aren't terrible (I looked when you made your comment).  And I was excited to see you bomb the daylights out of so many ships on the enemy team, mainly because I play strike Lex as well.  And while your stats were good (55%ish win rate), the enemy CVs stats were poor (35%ish win rate).  That's part of the reason I was shocked when you kept making the comments you did.  Maybe you're used to going up against enemy Shokakus and Enterprises with captains who are better at fighting the air war?  I don't know all of your previous battles, so I'm just guessing here.

 

1 hour ago, Fog_Repair_Ship_Akashi said:

You can only polish a turd of an idea with a lot of study and hard work (as Mythbusters proved) but @Lord_Zath @Doomlock. Wargaming needs to do a lot more testing before releasing this, this version is basically a middle finger to CV players and BB players. The only people with any benifit in this version are the DDs and to a smaller extent the CA's. if Wargaming wants this done properly they need to do extensive testing and think this through. Wargaming could have easily made it like Supremacy League, that system has worked before and is still working, i don't see why Wargaming decided to take a tried and proven system and simply ignore it.

 

in summary I think Wargaming is going too quickly with this in an attempt to say "We got Clan Wars in before the Year ended!". @SuperNikoPower @Pigeon_of_War Tell Wargaming they need to delay this, we can wait till 2018 as long as it's balanced for all of the ship classes and fun, Wargaming is doing this too quickly. This will end up like the Graf Zepplin fiasco.

 

Be careful with making complete judgment calls.  It's not going to help if you go into CW thinking it's garbage.  You'll come out of it finding ways to justify your feeling.  A lot of people seem to forget that Ranked also had a pilot season, and there were a lot of things wrong with that setup when it first came out as well.  Things have changed quite a bit on the Ranked landscape as a result.  

 

As for Wargaming and testing, what testing do you suggest?  You say "extensive testing"...   who's testing - WG employees?  Supertesters?  Clans?  For how long?  At what point do people get frustrated with waiting for new content?  I, for one, would rather see WG taking risks and trying something out - even if it becomes a complete failure - than spending additional time and manpower only to come to a similar conclusion anyways.  If this season fails, do you really feel like CW Season 2 will be the exact same?  

 

Take Clan Wars for what it is.  If you don't like it, you can choose to do something else.  Go play Tier VIII Random Battles and enjoy being top tier for a change, do some scenarios, or maybe even take a break.  However, your lack of data from not playing CW will not cause a change, because WG's data analysts won't see anything.  In other words, try playing a few battles first before making large sweeping decisions.  Keep an open mind and see what happens.  Give WG your open and honest feedback AFTER playing this mode.  WG does listen to their fans, but you can't expect them to react to everything before it's even implemented.  They want to see you try it first!  

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10 minutes ago, Lord_Zath said:

Yes, I remember your game.  For the record, your stats aren't terrible (I looked when you made your comment).  And I was excited to see you bomb the daylights out of so many ships on the enemy team, mainly because I play strike Lex as well.  And while your stats were good (55%ish win rate), the enemy CVs stats were poor (35%ish win rate).  That's part of the reason I was shocked when you kept making the comments you did.  Maybe you're used to going up against enemy Shokakus and Enterprises with captains who are better at fighting the air war?  I don't know all of your previous battles, so I'm just guessing here

When I checked after the match my WR on Lex was 38%, the opposing player was on 45%+. We had a team member who said; at the start, that according to XVM we would lose because the enemy team had a better CV player, (then went silent), I only called out in chat, after each successive kill, "What is my WR according to XVM?", very annoying, and I apologize profusely for doing so, but hardly shock worthy. The last comment in chat (I failed to screenshot for posterity, was the hilarious reply, "38%!"

Certainly without salt of any kind.

I stand by my comment that the evidence shows good team work compensates individual handicaps, including a CV handicap!

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11 minutes ago, Lord_Zath said:

 

O.K Fair enough Zath, i see your point however that still doesn't refute the fact that they could have used the Supremacy model in order to start since it is a system that is proven and very effective. i will do the wait and see approach but I'm basing what i said off of personal experience. with there being no CVs and no limit to DDs all people will do is play DDs since they can basically be hidden for the whole match, and BBs are basically screwed with either torpedo soup or Fire raining from above. All I'm saying is that Wargaming needs to look at this more before release, at least do a public test or two to see how it goes. I will admit that the way I worded my last statement was poor, however the fact remains that at the time this way of doing clan Wars will end badly, If Wargaming wants to really release Clan Wars then they should use a proven system of 7 vs. 7 (Supremacy) and test their idea on the public test. if the results are not what the community expects then by all means put it through. I'm not denying your opinions on the idea Zath, i just feel that Wargaming is rushing this release and that could cause severe problems, especially since the community has wanted clan Wars for a long time.

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2 hours ago, Fog_Repair_Ship_Akashi said:

Zath all people are going to do is play Khabs. Wargaming needs to do some serious large-scale testing before putting this online. The way they want it now will just end badly.

Considering how few people have Khabs and that the Shima is going to given to everyone I have to disagree. 

 

Besides Khabs like burning BBs and there is only going to be one BB in each team max. 

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3 hours ago, Lord_Zath said:

 

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I avoided games in Ranked with CVs like the plague.  Whenever I hit the Battle button I hovered my finger over ESC, ready to rush back to port as soon as I saw 2 CVs in the queue.  Why?  Because those are usually the most one-sided matches in Ranked.  One CV sucks, one CV is great.  Better hope you're on the team with the great CV! 

 

 

Are you trying to say that your clan's CV will be trash? or that the enemy CV will be trash? Sure this may happen at lower tiers, but with MMR, you should be matched against a CV of comparable skill at higher tiers.

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2 hours ago, Fog_Repair_Ship_Akashi said:

O.K Fair enough Zath, i see your point however that still doesn't refute the fact that they could have used the Supremacy model in order to start since it is a system that is proven and very effective. i will do the wait and see approach but I'm basing what i said off of personal experience. with there being no CVs and no limit to DDs all people will do is play DDs since they can basically be hidden for the whole match, and BBs are basically screwed with either torpedo soup or Fire raining from above. All I'm saying is that Wargaming needs to look at this more before release, at least do a public test or two to see how it goes. I will admit that the way I worded my last statement was poor, however the fact remains that at the time this way of doing clan Wars will end badly, If Wargaming wants to really release Clan Wars then they should use a proven system of 7 vs. 7 (Supremacy) and test their idea on the public test. if the results are not what the community expects then by all means put it through. I'm not denying your opinions on the idea Zath, i just feel that Wargaming is rushing this release and that could cause severe problems, especially since the community has wanted clan Wars for a long time.

 

While I agree that the supremacy model would have worked well here, I'm not Wargaming and can't speak to their reasoning for their decisions.  All I can do is what everyone else does - look at what they say and hope that it's the right call.  Is it?  We'll have to see.  I intend to give it an honest effort and provide my feedback, the same as anyone else.  I appreciate you giving your thoughts as well.  This is a FORUM, after all.  I think some people forget this :)

 

1 hour ago, Spartias said:

I play CVs competitively.

 

I'm not allowed to try it.

 

Check out Supremacy League.  You can win some sweet doubloons there.  https://warshipsupremacyleague.com/

 

1 hour ago, Your_GRE_Score said:

Are you trying to say that your clan's CV will be trash? or that the enemy CV will be trash? Sure this may happen at lower tiers, but with MMR, you should be matched against a CV of comparable skill at higher tiers.

 

Wow you're really reading into this!  In Ranked, if I have no control over who I'm playing with or against, I have zero interest in rolling the dice and hoping that my CV is superior.  In Clan Wars, this isn't necessarily the case, since I know the quality of the CV on my team.  That said, there's no guarantee that the CV on the enemy team will be of equal skill - assuming they even have a CV.  Remember, there's tons of clans here - not just the "top 5" to consider.  How many of those clans can't even field a good CV?  Is it fair to allow one team the nearly infinite vision with no catch? 

 

Just to make sure everyone's clear, I'm not here to call anyone trash.  I'm here to state my opinion on the matter and share my excitement for something new and different.  And if it sucks, then it's our job to make sure WG knows why - AFTER we've tried it.

Edited by Lord_Zath
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5 minutes ago, Lord_Zath said:

Check out Supremacy League.  You can win some sweet doubloons there.  https://warshipsupremacyleague.com/

 

I'm already on a Supremacy Team as a CV player.

 

I'm not allowed to play my favorite competitive class in Wargaming's supported in game competitive clan mode.

 

Thanks for the link though.

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With Lord Z on everything. Ranked but with people I really like and who play well and to win? Gimme some please!

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IMO, the ban on CV's is just the result of WG knowing that they need a rework, given their binary nature and that in most competitive formats, they are reduced almost purely to spotting, and create slow, stagnant, smoke-based gameplay, as well as signifcantly limiting the ship and build choices to those that provide good AA.  Hopefully CV's can be added once the class undergoes a full overhaul.

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Too many people taking at face value that this is a permenant "CVs will never see the light of clan wars". As if it were somehow impossible for WG to change the formula later like, I dunno, after they're finish with a CV rework maybe. Took all of 1 leap of logic to figure that out, but I guess inundating the forum, reddit, and youtube with "WG [edited] up" is cool too.

 

In the meantime much like Zath, I'll be enjoying CW in its current form and re-adapt when it inevitably changes. This shall be fun :cap_like:

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39 minutes ago, Lord_Zath said:

While I agree that the supremacy model would have worked well here, I'm not Wargaming and can't speak to their reasoning for their decisions.  All I can do is what everyone else does - look at what they say and hope that it's the right call.  Is it?  We'll have to see.  I intend to give it an honest effort and provide my feedback, the same as anyone else.  I appreciate you giving your thoughts as well.  This is a FORUM, after all.  I think some people forget this :)

Thanks for understanding Zath, also if you don't mind. Want to check this out and put in your answers or get @RivertheRoyal to do so? 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Fog_Repair_Ship_Akashi said:

Thanks for understanding Zath, also if you don't mind. Want to check this out and put in your answers or get @RivertheRoyal to do so? 

 

 

Done!  I thought about looking them up but I'm more interested in seeing if I remember them correctly :-).  Thanks for putting it together.

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