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VGLance

Interesting uproar about CVs not included in Clan Wars

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I wonder how much of an uproar there would be if CVs were allowed.  Every other post on the forums (speaking facetiously of course) seems to be posts about the vast skill gap in CV players and how much that skill gap affects results disproportionately compared to other ship types.  Not to mention the other posts about CVs being overpowered sky cancer in general.  Imagine how much of an uproar there would be if their team had to regularly go up against the likes of a Femennenly or Kancollewuzhere.

 

I also wonder if people thought about the scenario where one team is trying to run a clan wars battle with another team and one team wants to include a CV player and the other team doesn't.  Has anyone thought about how that would work?  Especially if CVs have so much influence?

 

I really don't personally have much of an opinion because if Clan Wars ends up being just a rehash of team battles, it will be lame and queue times will take forever.  If it ends up being like WoT Clan Wars, it'll be held at times most people with healthy social lives in the real world won't be available, and therefore I won't be able to be active in it anyway.

 

I'm just curious if people really truly thought this through.  I see reasons for people to be upset on both sides and frankly I don't know which side has more of a reason to be upset.  I just think those who are strongly for one side might not be considering the alternative as much as they should.  Even the thinnest paper has two sides.

 

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It's ridiculous because wg chose the tier and team size for clan wars. It's also ridiculous to limit to one BB.

So only 3 of the 4 classes are allowed, and you're only allowed to have 1 of the most popular class in the game.

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I'm not into clans and the like, but my two cents is that the one BB no CV rule is interesting at a glance, but seems to disappoint a fair few and for good reason. As for is this a good decision, beats me. I'll leave it up for time to tell.

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Im fully behind Wargaming on this one.

 

It is exactly what a large part of the forums have been asking for, reduce BB numbers, make cruisers relevant and remove CVs from the game.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Cpt_RickSchwifty said:

Im fully behind Wargaming on this one.

 

It is exactly what a large part of the forums have been asking for, reduce BB numbers, make cruisers relevant and remove CVs from the game.

 

 

 

Except the forums don't represent the player base at all....:cap_hmm:

92% of the players never come to the forums.

I personally think no sky cancer is a good idea, but forcing the issue, and choice of ships in Clan wars will not have the desired effect.

And the Unicum population will still run all over the rest of the teams, Sky cancer or not.

I have no interest in Clan Wars at the present time, I think it's a poison pill for the game, so I don't have a iron in this fire, but I can't see how this is going to work out well.

Edited by awiggin
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At T10 it's the only sensible decision given the current state of carriers at that tier.

 

CV's make up something like 1.8% of the ships in battle at T10 (from memory) if 1.8% of masochists are excluded I'm not too worried about it.

Edited by mofton

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The problem is that I don't think cruisers will be relevant, even with this change. I could be wrong, but I'm honestly thinking that it'll be 1 BB and 6 Khabs (or maybe a Shima or two). I've actually heard that idea floated. 

I'll play it (as much as I can). But I don't think that this rule will suddenly make cruisers useful or valuable. I'll be really curious to see what the best teams tend to look like in Clan Wars. 

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No, I don't think many have.

 

It's a knee jerk reaction and just the new "flavor" of the week to argue about.

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If you can't recruit a good CV, you don't deserve to top the charts. Period.

As a general rule of thumb: If your team is not willing to commit or train the resources needed to win in competitive, it shouldn't win against teams that are willing to commit and train those resources.

Edited by CarefreeTongue
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Uproar? Let's not exaggerate. Some people are asking legitimate questions, calmly, diplomatically, nicely even.

Spoiler

for now:Smile_popcorn:

 

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18 minutes ago, VGLance said:

I wonder how much of an uproar there would be if CVs were allowed.  Every other post on the forums (speaking facetiously of course) seems to be posts about the vast skill gap in CV players and how much that skill gap affects results disproportionately compared to other ship types.  Not to mention the other posts about CVs being overpowered sky cancer in general.  Imagine how much of an uproar there would be if their team had to regularly go up against the likes of a Femennenly or Kancollewuzhere.

 

I also wonder if people thought about the scenario where one team is trying to run a clan wars battle with another team and one team wants to include a CV player and the other team doesn't.  Has anyone thought about how that would work?  Especially if CVs have so much influence?

 

I really don't personally have much of an opinion because if Clan Wars ends up being just a rehash of team battles, it will be lame and queue times will take forever.  If it ends up being like WoT Clan Wars, it'll be held at times most people with healthy social lives in the real world won't be available, and therefore I won't be able to be active in it anyway.

 

I'm just curious if people really truly thought this through.  I see reasons for people to be upset on both sides and frankly I don't know which side has more of a reason to be upset.  I just think those who are strongly for one side might not be considering the alternative as much as they should.  Even the thinnest paper has two sides.

 

If I'm reading this correctly. 

 

You think it would be unfair to have to face a top end cv but it's ok for 7 top end players to group up and wipe the floor with other clans.

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7 minutes ago, CarefreeTongue said:

If you can't recruit a good CV, you don't deserve to top the charts. Period,

And some people wonder how this game mod creates an elitist attitude. Lol

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They didn't want to see the Supremacy meta all over again.  1 cv, 3 bb, 2 ca, 3 dd.  One of the CAs as radar [edited] and the other as kiter, of which one, maybe two, lines can serve.

 

In an 8v8 A T10 CV would have too much influence.  There might be a solution allowing a T8 CV where the CV would pull only a little more weight than the T10 CA or DD it would replace.  Possibly even T9, though that would make the CV mandatory.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, awiggin said:

 

Except the forums don't represent the player base at all....:cap_hmm:

92% of the players never come to the forums.

I personally think no sky cancer is a good idea, but forcing the issue, and choice of ships in Clan wars will not have the desired effect.

And the Unicum population will still run all over the rest of the teams, Sky cancer or not.

 

I get that but the best players will win no matter what....most of us realize what happens when you have a highly skilled CV captain versus a moderately skilled one. I certainly question the 1 BB limit, seems like 2 would be much more acceptable. 

 

But this DOES achieve the balance most players have been advocating for and will certainly open up the variety of ships 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, issm said:

"Carriers are bad for gameplay"

 

                                    ~WG

You must be creaming your pants over that :cap_win:

 

 

As much as I have argued about the need for CVs to effect balance in this game, in their current state, I think this is probably the right decision.

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Should be 12v12, whatever ship comp you want to bring.

 

This is clan wars, not 'make everyone feel good time' ... sillyness.

 

Full disclosure I won't be competing in the near future. Just no time for that anymore, but, my thoughts on it would be the same.  It's the end game.  Show your boats and your skill.

 

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In the specific setup WG picked CVs would overwhelm teams because it would be almost impossible for 7 players to have a decent AA bubble and control multiple caps. It also has to do with how few tier 10 CV players exist with roughly 200 players playing CVs over the last two months on the NA server. It would be hard for most clans to field a tier 10 CV and without it they would be at an immense disadvantage. Plus running into a great CV player vs an average CV player is still going to end up with the same result at tier 10 and means that 6 people would lose basically no matter how well they play because of the 7th member.

 

For the specific game setup WG picked it makes sense but it would be nice to not exclude people like this. In WOT CW was divided into three different groups playing at tiers 6, 8, and 10 with different team sizes and prizes. Something like that would still be inclusive of smaller clans with less progress down the tech tree and would naturally divide CW into more fair matchups because the teams that can compete at higher levels would choose to do that for the better payouts. At least with some division the teams that can field large tier 10 teams would be able to and the teams that dont have enough people or ships can still participate. 

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No CV's and only one BB.  It'll be interesting to see how the meta fleshes out.  It should probably at least be a 9vs9 match.  I wouldn't want to be that lone BB.  A couple of CA's, 5 DD's will eat him alive.  At least that's how I see it developing.  I think the shine will rub off this turd pretty quickly.

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Since my first tier 10 is probably going to be the Des Moines the carrier ban is a little upsetting to me. maybe radar + hydro + dpm will make it useful.

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"Finally get to use my carrier in clans.  I can't wait for clan wars.  This is gonna be great!"

     - CV player when 6.11 first released

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Its absolutely disgusting. It completely defeats all the training and prep we've done as organized group play. This is WG's official stance? They can go play their own game in a ditch in Cyprus.

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It's been said since before WoWS CBT even started.  In World of Tanks, the arty hardcap attacks the symptom of an underlying problem (that arty is broken).  Here, having hardcaps also attacks the symptom of an underlying problem (that carriers - and to a lesser extent battleships - are broken).   They can keep attacking the symptoms all they please, the reality is that arbitrary hardcaps aren't fun and the mode won't be successful.  To answer your question OP, if the actual underlying problem was solved instead of bandaged, nobody would express outrage if carriers were allowed unrestricted into clan matches.

Edited by TheSeventhSeeker

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12 minutes ago, Kuckoo said:

"Finally get to use my carrier in clans.  I can't wait for clan wars.  This is gonna be great!"

     - CV player when 6.11 first released

As only a casual player in an addmittedly uncompetitive clan, I was still interested in participating.  Unfortunately CV is my best class.  Oh well.

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Personally I think a game of mostly cruisers and destroyers sounds like a lot of fun. Kind of concerned, especially with the T10 rental system, that we'll end up seeing entire teams of Shimakaze exchanging torp walls without ever seeing each other, but hey that might be kind of funny... 

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