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NotoriousRNG

The conqueror is actually pretty balanced.

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Hear me out.

The conqueror is quite powerful with its HE and superheal, this much is known. However having now played a few games in it, and many more against it, it has one glaring weakness - no float plane. Which means to spot torpedoes or DDs, you have to rely solely on team mates in a random game. This is a problem because:

 

Torpedo damage ruins you. You can't heal it up as much as fire damage. And your torpedo bulge is weak. 

 

Who should be spotting for you? Your DDs are either off farming damage or scared of radar ships. Or theyve tried to cap and died for their sins. And you can't blame them. XP is not rewarded enough for spotting. Radar works through land and can spot a dd before they spot the radar ship.  Battleship AP damaging DDs is still a meme. You can't blame DDs for playing cautiously. 

 

Cruisers spotting....well, a cruiser that is spotted doesn't last too long 'round these here parts. Of you're relying on your cruisers to spot and screen for torpedoes then you are going to have a bad time or a short bad time.

 

CVs? Ha. Hahahahaha. Ah, hahahahaah. If you get a CV competent enough to spot, you're probably playing a different game. Almost all spotting by friendly CVs is done by accident while they try and snipe the other CV. Air cover? Sorry mate I'm testing my Graf Zeppelin bombers in your game that you're trying to win.

 

This leaves friendly BBs as the ones who have to help spot for you and they aren't going to spot anything in J1.

 

 

This leaves the Conqueror in a tough position. 11.1 stealth, which is close enough to get right in. But once you're there, you're outspotted by a few cruisers, and all DDs. So what can you do but spam HE from long distance? 

 

Whilst it may have a lot of strengths and seemingly few weakmesses -the ship is balanced out by meta, don't hate on it.

Edited by SalvoSanta

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It is stupidly OP. 

 

If you are not super bad, you will not get wrecked by DDs. Don't need a spotter plane for that. 

 

Super Heal

Super Underwater Citadel

Super HE

Super AA

Super Stealth 

 

Why does it get it all ?! 

 

 

Edited by Helmut__Kohl
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11 minutes ago, Helmut__Kohl said:

It is stupidly OP. 

 

If you are not super bad, you will not get wrecked by DDs. Don't need a spotter plane for that. 

 

Super Heal

Super Underwater Citadel

Super HE

Super AA

Super Stealth 

 

Why does it get it all ?! 

 

 

 

If you'd read my post you would understand that the current meta rules most of these advantages out.

 

Super heal? Not effective against torpedo damage. 

Great AA? Its knocked out so easily.

Stealth? Are you going to cap?

Edited by SalvoSanta
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8 minutes ago, SalvoSanta said:

 

If you'd read my post you would understand that the current meta rules most of these advantages out.

 

Super heal? Not effective against torpedo damage. 

Great AA? Its knocked out so easily.

Stealth? Are you going to cap?


- you shouldn't be getting hit by torps, because if you have a radar CA on your team then their DDs will be dancing around doing the same thing as yours.
- AA, sure it's a bit squishy, but if you're abusing stealth and using auxiliary armament mod 1 it shouldn't be much of an issue

- stealth to disengage or force engagements

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A floatplane on a Battleship lasts 90 seconds and doesn't come up again for 2 minutes. The plane's spotting radius plus flying speed/radius make it in reality horrible for spotting torpedoes. So it is subjected to just about the same treatment in terms of torpedoes. Considering that the superheal can also repair part of the torp damage, you are at most slightly more vulnerable to torpedoes while being multiple times more effective against everything else.

 

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15 minutes ago, SalvoSanta said:

 

If you'd read my post you would understand that the current meta rules most of these advantages out.

 

Super heal? Not effective against torpedo damage. 

Great AA? Its knocked out so easily.

Stealth? Are you going to cap?

 

I read it. 

BBaby defending his new toy. 

"Are you going to cap?" Wow, just wow. 

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1 minute ago, Helmut__Kohl said:

 

I read it. 

BBaby defending his new toy. 

"Are you going to cap?" Wow, just wow. 

I have 6100 battles - 1400 in BBs. I am as far from a babby as you can get. 

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15 hours ago, Helmut__Kohl said:

It is stupidly OP. 

 

If you are not super bad, you will not get wrecked by DDs. Don't need a spotter plane for that. 

 

Super Heal

Super Underwater Citadel

Super HE

Super AA

Super Stealth 

 

Why does it get it all ?! 

 

 

 

It is quite well balanced. If you can find the old data, its win rate in solo matches, when it must carry, is more or less that of GK. Conk does gaudy damage but its win rate isn't commensurate. WG has well balanced the ship. Given all the incompetent garbage at the high tiers, from the crappy maps to detonations to the grossly overpowered and play-harming CVs, it is quite surprising they got that right...

Conk suffers from the handicap of UK Almost PiercingTM, which does ok damage but can't put ships down when they need to be put down -- killing ships that need to be killed is the essence of carrying. Hence, Conk's win rate will likely continue to fall over time.

Edited by Taichunger
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Just now, Taichunger said:


Conk suffers from the handicap of UK Almost PiercingTM, which does ok damage but can't put ships down when they need to be put down -- killing ships that need to be killed is the essence of carrying. Hence, Conk's win rate will likely continue to fall over time.

This is what I'm trying to say. It's great at farming damage. But I had a full broadside Montana at 6km turning out and with the AP, i did 12k damage. Whereas the Missouri would have done at least 30k with citadels and finished him off. 

 

Sure it's a strong ship but not without its weaknesses. Still laughing at the guy who called a cruiser main a BaBBy . Looooool.

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This is coming from a Cruiser Main:

 

Conqueror's damage output is one of those "long term dealios" because of the reliance on HE+Fires.  The AP is unimpressive.  Hell, if I'm playing a Cruiser, I'll happily eat a salvo of Conqueror HE+Fires than an AP salvo from the likes of Montana, Yamato.  I can survive a big HE salvo and put out fires, recover a good portion of the damage.  But the AP that the other BBs typically sport cause "Go back to port" deletions for Cruisers.  Now, where Conq's HE comes in real handy is fighting other BBs to wear them down.

 

As Taichunger has pointed out, Conqueror puts up an abnormally higher average damage than its Tier X BB peers.  You're farming damage with that HE+Fires, but it's not that critical, "Citadel" catastrophic salvo.  Yet that greater average damage has not translated into a WR% that is any better than her peers.

 

She farms damage, but she's not winning any more than her peers.  Her firepower is geared towards the long term fight, but it's not the kind that quickly ends people.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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Conqueror will win 1v1 against any other BB, every time if played right.

 

And of course I assume you are BBaby with silly statements like "are you going to cap"... 

 

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14 hours ago, Helmut__Kohl said:

Conqueror will win 1v1 against any other BB, every time if played right.

 

 

Possibly, but its not relevant, since the game is not 1v1 BBs. 

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2 hours ago, Helmut__Kohl said:

 

I read it. 

BBaby defending his new toy. 

"Are you going to cap?" Wow, just wow. 

Dude really? Sorry to say but you have only 11 battles and played 6 of them in cruisers in Random...

 

Wait till you will be in the higher tiers :)

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3 hours ago, Helmut__Kohl said:

It is stupidly OP. 

 

If you are not super bad, you will not get wrecked by DDs. Don't need a spotter plane for that. 

 

Super Heal

Super Underwater Citadel

Super HE

Super AA

Super Stealth 

 

Why does it get it all ?! 

 

 

 

Because Royal Navy, it'll still eat dust if you focus it on the cool down.  

Because the Brits learned how to bury their engine spaces underwater, like proper shipbuilders.

Because AP meta didn't need balance? I just read a cruiser main WANTED to eat a Conks salvo.

Bring cruisers back into relevance and you can get AA nerfed then

Because getting spotted and shot at by 5 battleships before you can return any fire because your friendly destroyers are mortified to enter a cap circle or cross the middle 3 lines of a map, therefore catching you on the wrongest foot, or, worst case scenario, with your pants down, is totally how we want to play the game. 

 

On the last point, sometimes you get spotted while jockeying for position and you're stuck with it. Conqueror can mitigate that problem better than most but she does not get it all.

If she got MM where she was placed on competent teams 75% of all matches, then she would be broken. 

You pull the team out from under a conqueror and you lose your conqueror. 

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2 hours ago, Helmut__Kohl said:

Conqueror will win 1v1 against any other BB, every time if played right.

 

that statement would be true of ANY BB vs. any other BB of a similar tier in a 1 vs. 1 situation if "played right" and you know yours and the oppositions ships weaknesses.

 

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4 hours ago, Helmut__Kohl said:

It is stupidly OP. 

 

If you are not super bad, you will not get wrecked by DDs. Don't need a spotter plane for that. 

 

Super Heal

Super Underwater Citadel

Super HE

Super AA

Super Stealth 

 

Why does it get it all ?! 

 

 

Because Royal Navy, mate.

 

Belfast says hi.

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1 hour ago, Lionel92 said:

Dude really? Sorry to say but you have only 11 battles and played 6 of them in cruisers in Random...

 

Wait till you will be in the higher tiers :)

 

Dude, really? This is not my account. :D

I am from EU. :) 

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4 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

This is coming from a Cruiser Main:

 

Conqueror's damage output is one of those "long term dealios" because of the reliance on HE+Fires. 

 

As a "cruiser main" you should know DPM is not a long term "dealio" when a Conqueror can burn down a Yamato in over a minute which only cruisers like the Des Moines can do. No battleship even comes close to this DPM. 

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Too bad WST is still down, or I'd troll some people here with Conqueror's solo win rate, which I assume is still below 50% (and below Kurfust's) :)

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12 minutes ago, vak_ said:

Too bad WST is still down, or I'd troll some people here with Conqueror's solo win rate, which I assume is still below 50% (and below Kurfust's) :)

 

I was checking it out before it started having issues. I'm not sure about win rate, but I do recall that the Conqueror was significantly outperforming the other BBs in terms of damage output. That's just one factor of many to consider, but to me that's one of the more important factors for playing BBs. The other important factor in my mind would be average potential damage taken, but I don't believe warships today offers that statistic (not that it is offering any right now).

 

I have no idea whether this site is accurate but I'll throw it up for review: https://na.wows-numbers.com/ships/

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3 minutes ago, Cpt_Griffith said:

I was checking it out before it started having issues. I'm not sure about win rate, but I do recall that the Conqueror was significantly outperforming the other BBs in terms of damage output.

 

That's just one factor of many to consider, but to me that's one of the more important factors for playing BBs

 

Let's say you're a BB at 2/3 HP, with a few heals remaining. Would you rather take a 20k AP citadel hit, or 30k in damage from Conqueror's HE and subsequent fires?

 

Solo win rate over a sufficiently large number of battles is more important than any other statistic. That's just obvious. 

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Just now, vak_ said:

 

Let's say you're a BB at 2/3 HP, with a few heals remaining. Would you rather take a 20k AP citadel hit, or 30k in damage from Conqueror's HE and subsequent fires?

 

Solo win rate over a sufficiently large number of battles is more important than any other statistic. That's just obvious. 

 

You cannot angle against RN HE, which gives the Conqueror a consistent damage output.

And with the high firechance, that damage output it too high.

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5 minutes ago, vak_ said:

 

Let's say you're a BB at 2/3 HP, with a few heals remaining. Would you rather take a 20k AP citadel hit, or 30k in damage from Conqueror's HE and subsequent fires?

 

Solo win rate over a sufficiently large number of battles is more important than any other statistic. That's just obvious. 

 

From a Conqueror, I'd rather take AP shells than HE shells. You do have the heal, but the issue isn't just that. To me, the fact that the first volley lights a couple fires, and then the immediate next volley lights a couple fires is the problem. And I disagree that solo win rate is the obvious factor, but that's just my opinion.

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In the end, it all depends on the player, HE is nice on the Conq., I try to switch AP/HE as much as I can with it, AP packs very good punch too and remember, that is not healable, so farming dmg with HE is not everything in the game, though keeping Damage con in constant reset is nice if you coordinate with DD's for potential torps and/or CV's.

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13 minutes ago, Cpt_Griffith said:

From a Conqueror, I'd rather take AP shells than HE shells

 

I disagree that solo win rate is the obvious factor.

 

That's not what I asked. I specifically asked you to pick between an AP citadel hit for 20k (likely from a BB other than Conqueror), or x1.5 of that damage from HE/fires -- all this while you're in a BB at 2/3 HP and some repairs remaining. The fact that you chose to deflect instead of a straight answer seems to indicate that you understand the weakness of your position. I'll answer for myself: I would much rather take the damage from HE/fires in the aforementioned scenario. HE can generally be repaired at 50% efficiency, and full 100% of fire damage can be repaired. A citadel hit is damage that you almost can't recover, only 10% is repairable. While Conqueror puts out more average damage, any person with even a modest understanding of the game knows that this damage is somewhat less meaningful than AP damage from other BBs in the context of achieving a victory. 

 

[shrugs] You can disagree all you want, objective reality won't change because of that. Solo win rate is the most important single statistic in the game, because it is best correlated with performance so long as the sample size is sufficiently large (in ~thousands).

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