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dEsTurbed1

The Kii trap

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Hey

It's too bad since the Kii was supposed to be a follow on ship to the Amagi, which would suggest she should have been a better design in most ways but not so.  But had she been much better; how many people would be whining about "Pay to Win"?  Too bad, it's a great looking ship.

 

Pete

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On 9/24/2017 at 6:09 PM, dEsTurbed1 said:

So my 3rd match with her going into late game.

Solo warrior chance.

4 ships closing in on me.

No heals left.

Under 30k health.

3km away a half heath battleship is nose on to me, we are closing. 

 

I rember that I have torpedos.

Yup you guessed it, I turn to use them and take 3 citadels .

 

Don't ever do it, they are a death trap.

That is so true ..... nice

 

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So the Kii has lots of problems ...You took a great ship the Amagi Gimped the  hel? out of it .. So you gave it 1.7 sigma vs Amagi's of 1.8 .. took the torp bulge and gave the kii 2 piece deck armor so even a dd  can pen you ,, Longer reload and any other BB at your class will kill you in a brawl ..That's if you don't get lucky and torp them. It's has torp's speed and AA .. So why gimp it down , seems like wargameing  want's us to fight from range but gun s only fire 18k longer reload and sigma suc?s... So wth ??? . If they gave us 2.0 sigma we could hit and madey citadel at range ,,but still with armor your a fool to bawl with this boat , Good 2ndary would have been cool , But armor big weakness . So pls fix this boat or let us sell this POS but for  doubloons

 

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On 9/29/2017 at 9:09 PM, Thewavis said:

So here is Kii vs Amagi. The following screen shots will show all of you why Kii is junk.

Start with the Kii, a BATTLESHIP.

shot-17_09.29_18_16.04-0048.thumb.jpg.15c4ddb1aa4a12d33226937bbae4bfc4.jpg

Here is the armor profile. On the surface the Kii sacrifices torpedo protection for better belt armor.

shot-17_09.29_18.16_09-0744.thumb.jpg.29e44d1b7bee5a0cef4ba6966852c9cb.jpg

Kii has an additional deck of armor but when armor is split up it makes it easier to penetrate.

shot-17_09.29_18_16.15-0000.thumb.jpg.7b237fddde114445226c49496540d8ac.jpg

Still showing the armored belt, 95mm of deck armor is still pretty good, right? Not so much.shot-17_09.29_18_16.19-0744.thumb.jpg.296da35741bebc20eb5e70297f480562.jpg

Citadel top is a measly 22mm. Do the math, 22 + 95 + 32 is 147mm of combined deck armor. Kii also suffers from poor athwart ships protection both bow and stern which is 73mm. She cannot bow tank or take any amount of plunging fire.

Now Amagi, a BATTLECRUISER

Amagi showing all armor.

shot-17_09.29_18_16.33-0792.thumb.jpg.388a5108afa745e10aef74972cd68241.jpg

Amagi is not a bow tank either but in the next two pictures, you will see why she has a reputation for being an armor troll.

shot-17_09.29_18_16.38-0640.thumb.jpg.3c71c97737e0d91a2125a4079e1da058.jpg

Citadel deck is a robust 70mm compared to Kii's 22mm. Amagi does not have a middle deck and instead concentrates her armor layout in two sections instead of three. Total deck protection is 102mm combined which is less but because the second line of defense is thicker means less get through. 70km on the citadel deck armor is more preferable to a three level combination armor spacing. The athwart-ships is thicker at 229mm which means that while Amagi is citadelled, not nearly does she take easy, high damage rolls like the BATTLESHIP Kii.

shot-17_09.29_18_16.44-0792.thumb.jpg.966a5f5bd875de60634a218078e52a51.jpg

Wargaming has sold us a pathetic, gimmicky ship that has torpedoes, but cannot brawl. Has guns that are shorter range AND has looser groupings so damage potential is actually LESS than the Amagi. An AA suite that is .02 better on average than Amagi, being rated at a 95 is pathetic when Amagi is rated at 77 in AA and yet they mirror each other in performance. Secondaries are a joke. Speed is decent and turning is the same as Amagi. Amagi has killer secondaries, can shoot too RANGE and hit consistently. Shell grouping is tighter, armor is BETTER and does not NEED torpedoes to be a quasi threat.

In retrospect, BB Kii is simply a Nagato with an extra turret and 4k more health. She is in actuality a Tier 7 BB shoehorned into a Tier 8 spot on the Tech Tree where she does not belong. Kii is SUPPOSED to be a Tier 9 that was modified to be a Tier 8. Sadly the armor stats, gun reload, range and sigma all suggest otherwise.

Do NOT buy the Kii, She is no Amagi in anyway shape or form except for outer appearances and that is barely the case. I bought the Kii hoping for a BETTER Amagi that can brawl and torp and be fun. Instead her guns feel like a limp d.i.c.k. heavy on the sauce and fortitude that would make the cheapest hooker look good, aka that hooker would be harder to disrobe than the Kii.

Wargaming, either fix this tub of crap or give me my money back. This is the worst Tier 8 BB to come to market and of course, because Russian's still hate the Japanese, you put to market a ship that has no business being in anything higher than a Tier 8 match and a ranking of Tier 7.

Thank you.

Here are my suggestions for making the Kii better. One; do away with the current armor layout and re use Amagi layout and beef it up. Two, give the guns a sigma of 1.8 MINIMUM and extend range to 20.5 km. Nagato has that range why can't the Kii? The Kii is SUPPOSED to be a BATTLESHIP, not an over glorified Heavy Cruiser. That is what the AMAGI is supposed to be but in reality, the Amagi is the true battleship between the two.

God Bless and please do what is right by your customers.

He's right ...Wargaming  you need to fix this boat . Reload of 24 sec sigma 1.9 or even 2.0 it can't hit the broadside of a barn . Your 2 piece armor has to be changed DD can pen you ..so how are we to get close enough to use torps with armor even a DD guns can pen .If you take what makes the Amagi great off a boat and than resell it ...What do your has ??? A Kii pos   .pls fix it .or let us sell it for daubloons 

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Yep it's a POS  . better sigma 2.0 and quicker reload could make a big differnce . But can't brawl like it is .

 

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It is okay, but doesn't have abilities that synergise well. Torpedoes are a desperation gimmick that will occasionally get you out of a mistake, not really an offensive tool. Of course you pay for them and situationally useful AA with worse gun performance and protection. Not a good trade, but Kii is still a decent tier VIII BB.

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On 9/29/2017 at 9:09 PM, Thewavis said:

So here is Kii vs Amagi. The following screen shots will show all of you why Kii is junk.

Start with the Kii, a BATTLESHIP.

shot-17_09.29_18_16.04-0048.thumb.jpg.15c4ddb1aa4a12d33226937bbae4bfc4.jpg

Here is the armor profile. On the surface the Kii sacrifices torpedo protection for better belt armor.

shot-17_09.29_18.16_09-0744.thumb.jpg.29e44d1b7bee5a0cef4ba6966852c9cb.jpg

Kii has an additional deck of armor but when armor is split up it makes it easier to penetrate.

shot-17_09.29_18_16.15-0000.thumb.jpg.7b237fddde114445226c49496540d8ac.jpg

Still showing the armored belt, 95mm of deck armor is still pretty good, right? Not so much.shot-17_09.29_18_16.19-0744.thumb.jpg.296da35741bebc20eb5e70297f480562.jpg

Citadel top is a measly 22mm. Do the math, 22 + 95 + 32 is 147mm of combined deck armor. Kii also suffers from poor athwart ships protection both bow and stern which is 73mm. She cannot bow tank or take any amount of plunging fire.

Now Amagi, a BATTLECRUISER

Amagi showing all armor.

shot-17_09.29_18_16.33-0792.thumb.jpg.388a5108afa745e10aef74972cd68241.jpg

Amagi is not a bow tank either but in the next two pictures, you will see why she has a reputation for being an armor troll.

shot-17_09.29_18_16.38-0640.thumb.jpg.3c71c97737e0d91a2125a4079e1da058.jpg

Citadel deck is a robust 70mm compared to Kii's 22mm. Amagi does not have a middle deck and instead concentrates her armor layout in two sections instead of three. Total deck protection is 102mm combined which is less but because the second line of defense is thicker means less get through. 70km on the citadel deck armor is more preferable to a three level combination armor spacing. The athwart-ships is thicker at 229mm which means that while Amagi is citadelled, not nearly does she take easy, high damage rolls like the BATTLESHIP Kii.

shot-17_09.29_18_16.44-0792.thumb.jpg.966a5f5bd875de60634a218078e52a51.jpg

Wargaming has sold us a pathetic, gimmicky ship that has torpedoes, but cannot brawl. Has guns that are shorter range AND has looser groupings so damage potential is actually LESS than the Amagi. An AA suite that is .02 better on average than Amagi, being rated at a 95 is pathetic when Amagi is rated at 77 in AA and yet they mirror each other in performance. Secondaries are a joke. Speed is decent and turning is the same as Amagi. Amagi has killer secondaries, can shoot too RANGE and hit consistently. Shell grouping is tighter, armor is BETTER and does not NEED torpedoes to be a quasi threat.

In retrospect, BB Kii is simply a Nagato with an extra turret and 4k more health. She is in actuality a Tier 7 BB shoehorned into a Tier 8 spot on the Tech Tree where she does not belong. Kii is SUPPOSED to be a Tier 9 that was modified to be a Tier 8. Sadly the armor stats, gun reload, range and sigma all suggest otherwise.

Do NOT buy the Kii, She is no Amagi in anyway shape or form except for outer appearances and that is barely the case. I bought the Kii hoping for a BETTER Amagi that can brawl and torp and be fun. Instead her guns feel like a limp d.i.c.k. heavy on the sauce and fortitude that would make the cheapest hooker look good, aka that hooker would be harder to disrobe than the Kii.

Wargaming, either fix this tub of crap or give me my money back. This is the worst Tier 8 BB to come to market and of course, because Russian's still hate the Japanese, you put to market a ship that has no business being in anything higher than a Tier 8 match and a ranking of Tier 7.

Thank you.

Here are my suggestions for making the Kii better. One; do away with the current armor layout and re use Amagi layout and beef it up. Two, give the guns a sigma of 1.8 MINIMUM and extend range to 20.5 km. Nagato has that range why can't the Kii? The Kii is SUPPOSED to be a BATTLESHIP, not an over glorified Heavy Cruiser. That is what the AMAGI is supposed to be but in reality, the Amagi is the true battleship between the two.

God Bless and please do what is right by your customers.

Nicely said ,you not only showed wargameing whats wrong with the ship but also how to fix it . I  still think better sigma quick reload ,and stay way in the back cause torps are a trap that gets you killed ...Beside they probley wont fix ship's armor .So it will never be a brawler

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On 9/29/2017 at 7:09 PM, Thewavis said:

being rated at a 95 is pathetic when Amagi is rated at 77 in AA

I don't see the logic in this one, in what world is a 95 AA rating considered "pathetic"?

Also you can't just compare the two by just the AA rating number alone as it does not tell the whole story. The Kii's AA is exceptionally good because all of its DPS is focused in its mid and long range AA mounts and those long range mounts beats other battleships even in higher tiers. The 100mm AA mounts can have a DPS of 220 and once you add in manual AA it doubles against whatever planes you're targeting out to ranges of 7.2km and on top of that your mid range AA goes over 300 DPS. The Amagi has nothing over the Kii in the AA department.

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Classic YMMV ship. I like it, do pretty well in it (61%, 58k, 2.6 k/d) but did a lot better in Amagi (68%, 75k).  Kii’s guns are too inconsistent IMO and secondaries are useless, and feels like I never see CVs.

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14 hours ago, sasquatch_research said:

Hey

What would be the better choice between the Kii and the Alabama.  I already have Bismarck and Tirpitz and enjoy both.  

 

Pete

Alabama by a mile.  Are you grinding either line? 

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2 hours ago, missile742 said:

Alabama by a mile.  Are you grinding either line? 

Hey

Not doing either line at the moment; I did pick up the Mo. before it went away and have the Indy and Atlanta.  My main force is German.  But I do have a 10pt Japanese Capt. doing nothing.

 

Pete

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1 hour ago, sasquatch_research said:

Hey

Not doing either line at the moment; I did pick up the Mo. before it went away and have the Indy and Atlanta.  My main force is German.  But I do have a 10pt Japanese Capt. doing nothing.

 

Pete

I wouldn't recommend jumping into a Tier VIII BB without at least a few more points on your captain.  You might like the IJN BB line as a change of pace from the Germans.  More speed, accuracy, just don't get into the trap of long range sniping.  Most people enjoy Kongo and Fuso.

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2 hours ago, missile742 said:

I wouldn't recommend jumping into a Tier VIII BB without at least a few more points on your captain.  You might like the IJN BB line as a change of pace from the Germans.  More speed, accuracy, just don't get into the trap of long range sniping.  Most people enjoy Kongo and Fuso.

Hey

I have enough experience to handle T8 BB's since I have a Bismarck (19pt) and a Tirpitz (10pt)(was a 16pt in it), so running in T8 with a 10pt is not an issue.  I have run Japanese with all of the ARP.   Kongo's we got a while back and still run on occasion with 10-11 pts. I have enough free capt XP to upgrade some from 10pts so no issue their either.

 

Pete

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I may be alone in this but I like Kii, I loved Amagi as well and I do just fine in Kii. Just wish her armor was more like Amagi's, Kii has a pretty fearsome secondary battery and torps but she can't brawl with her armor. If she could just get an armor buff she could easily be a Japanese Tirpitz

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On 9/29/2017 at 9:09 PM, Thewavis said:

So here is Kii vs Amagi. The following screen shots will show all of you why Kii is junk.

Start with the Kii, a BATTLESHIP.

shot-17_09.29_18_16.04-0048.thumb.jpg.15c4ddb1aa4a12d33226937bbae4bfc4.jpg

Here is the armor profile. On the surface the Kii sacrifices torpedo protection for better belt armor.

shot-17_09.29_18.16_09-0744.thumb.jpg.29e44d1b7bee5a0cef4ba6966852c9cb.jpg

Kii has an additional deck of armor but when armor is split up it makes it easier to penetrate.

shot-17_09.29_18_16.15-0000.thumb.jpg.7b237fddde114445226c49496540d8ac.jpg

Still showing the armored belt, 95mm of deck armor is still pretty good, right? Not so much.shot-17_09.29_18_16.19-0744.thumb.jpg.296da35741bebc20eb5e70297f480562.jpg

Citadel top is a measly 22mm. Do the math, 22 + 95 + 32 is 147mm of combined deck armor. Kii also suffers from poor athwart ships protection both bow and stern which is 73mm. She cannot bow tank or take any amount of plunging fire.

Now Amagi, a BATTLECRUISER

Amagi showing all armor.

shot-17_09.29_18_16.33-0792.thumb.jpg.388a5108afa745e10aef74972cd68241.jpg

Amagi is not a bow tank either but in the next two pictures, you will see why she has a reputation for being an armor troll.

shot-17_09.29_18_16.38-0640.thumb.jpg.3c71c97737e0d91a2125a4079e1da058.jpg

Citadel deck is a robust 70mm compared to Kii's 22mm. Amagi does not have a middle deck and instead concentrates her armor layout in two sections instead of three. Total deck protection is 102mm combined which is less but because the second line of defense is thicker means less get through. 70km on the citadel deck armor is more preferable to a three level combination armor spacing. The athwart-ships is thicker at 229mm which means that while Amagi is citadelled, not nearly does she take easy, high damage rolls like the BATTLESHIP Kii.

shot-17_09.29_18_16.44-0792.thumb.jpg.966a5f5bd875de60634a218078e52a51.jpg

Wargaming has sold us a pathetic, gimmicky ship that has torpedoes, but cannot brawl. Has guns that are shorter range AND has looser groupings so damage potential is actually LESS than the Amagi. An AA suite that is .02 better on average than Amagi, being rated at a 95 is pathetic when Amagi is rated at 77 in AA and yet they mirror each other in performance. Secondaries are a joke. Speed is decent and turning is the same as Amagi. Amagi has killer secondaries, can shoot too RANGE and hit consistently. Shell grouping is tighter, armor is BETTER and does not NEED torpedoes to be a quasi threat.

In retrospect, BB Kii is simply a Nagato with an extra turret and 4k more health. She is in actuality a Tier 7 BB shoehorned into a Tier 8 spot on the Tech Tree where she does not belong. Kii is SUPPOSED to be a Tier 9 that was modified to be a Tier 8. Sadly the armor stats, gun reload, range and sigma all suggest otherwise.

Do NOT buy the Kii, She is no Amagi in anyway shape or form except for outer appearances and that is barely the case. I bought the Kii hoping for a BETTER Amagi that can brawl and torp and be fun. Instead her guns feel like a limp d.i.c.k. heavy on the sauce and fortitude that would make the cheapest hooker look good, aka that hooker would be harder to disrobe than the Kii.

Wargaming, either fix this tub of crap or give me my money back. This is the worst Tier 8 BB to come to market and of course, because Russian's still hate the Japanese, you put to market a ship that has no business being in anything higher than a Tier 8 match and a ranking of Tier 7.

Thank you.

Here are my suggestions for making the Kii better. One; do away with the current armor layout and re use Amagi layout and beef it up. Two, give the guns a sigma of 1.8 MINIMUM and extend range to 20.5 km. Nagato has that range why can't the Kii? The Kii is SUPPOSED to be a BATTLESHIP, not an over glorified Heavy Cruiser. That is what the AMAGI is supposed to be but in reality, the Amagi is the true battleship between the two.

God Bless and please do what is right by your customers.

He's right you guy's need to fix this ship better reload and sigma . Might work but armor is very bad a DD can pen you with out ifhe ......that means all catch you on fire .

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I'm always confused when I read these posts. I don't get the hate towards Kii. My biggest damage game was in her. Yesterday, I brawled solo against a Pensacola and a Bismarck ... and came out on top. Sunk the Pensacola with torps (guess he just didn't realize I had them), and then proceeded to pummel the Bismarck badly. In fact, he survived with maybe 1 or 2k health because the game ended. Was cursing for 5 minutes afterwards because I felt robbed, lol

Kii's problem is she's just exceptionally fragile broadside. But angled, she's reasonably strong. Her AA is a good deal better than Amagi's. And torps, while situational, are quite nice and have great firing angles. Now, I'm not saying she's better than Amagi. In fact, I love Amagi. But you're comparing her to a BB that is widely recognized as one of the very best in the game, so even if Kii is a touch worse, she's still better than the average.

Also, concerning sigma ... sigma is most relevant when ships have very large base dispersion. This is why Kii with a 1.7 sigma can much more reliably hit ships than Bismarck or Roma with 1.8 sigma. IJN dispersion is the best BB dispersion in the game and Kii does not disappoint.

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Yep Kii is a trap ..and we can't sell it back ....Forms are full of good idea's to make it a good boat like the Amagi .

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Hey

I continue to play the Kii but still finding this ship to be the worse T8 BB of the lot; I cannot make this ship work with any kind of consistency; for me I can live with the hull/armor issues, but it's the guns that are so terrible.  They are dreadfully inaccurate, and do very little damage when they do connect.  My best so far was around 70K with an average of between 30-40K at best, which is pathetic for a T8 BB.  The 410 mm guns do way less damage than the American 406's  and it doesn't seem to matter at max range, mid range or even close range, they suck.  Even brawling range of 2-3 kmI was unable to kill a Colorado with 3 full broadsides.  Broadside Scharnhorst took a full broadside but got only 2 shells to hit for like 1350 damage and he was about 6km from me when I fired.  And to think this was supposed to be an advanced Amagi class, really?  I would much rather sale my Gascogne over this garbage ship!

 

Pete

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On 9/29/2017 at 9:09 PM, Thewavis said:

So here is Kii vs Amagi. The following screen shots will show all of you why Kii is junk.

Start with the Kii, a BATTLESHIP.

shot-17_09.29_18_16.04-0048.thumb.jpg.15c4ddb1aa4a12d33226937bbae4bfc4.jpg

Here is the armor profile. On the surface the Kii sacrifices torpedo protection for better belt armor.

shot-17_09.29_18.16_09-0744.thumb.jpg.29e44d1b7bee5a0cef4ba6966852c9cb.jpg

Kii has an additional deck of armor but when armor is split up it makes it easier to penetrate.

shot-17_09.29_18_16.15-0000.thumb.jpg.7b237fddde114445226c49496540d8ac.jpg

Still showing the armored belt, 95mm of deck armor is still pretty good, right? Not so much.shot-17_09.29_18_16.19-0744.thumb.jpg.296da35741bebc20eb5e70297f480562.jpg

Citadel top is a measly 22mm. Do the math, 22 + 95 + 32 is 147mm of combined deck armor. Kii also suffers from poor athwart ships protection both bow and stern which is 73mm. She cannot bow tank or take any amount of plunging fire.

Now Amagi, a BATTLECRUISER

Amagi showing all armor.

shot-17_09.29_18_16.33-0792.thumb.jpg.388a5108afa745e10aef74972cd68241.jpg

Amagi is not a bow tank either but in the next two pictures, you will see why she has a reputation for being an armor troll.

shot-17_09.29_18_16.38-0640.thumb.jpg.3c71c97737e0d91a2125a4079e1da058.jpg

Citadel deck is a robust 70mm compared to Kii's 22mm. Amagi does not have a middle deck and instead concentrates her armor layout in two sections instead of three. Total deck protection is 102mm combined which is less but because the second line of defense is thicker means less get through. 70km on the citadel deck armor is more preferable to a three level combination armor spacing. The athwart-ships is thicker at 229mm which means that while Amagi is citadelled, not nearly does she take easy, high damage rolls like the BATTLESHIP Kii.

shot-17_09.29_18_16.44-0792.thumb.jpg.966a5f5bd875de60634a218078e52a51.jpg

Wargaming has sold us a pathetic, gimmicky ship that has torpedoes, but cannot brawl. Has guns that are shorter range AND has looser groupings so damage potential is actually LESS than the Amagi. An AA suite that is .02 better on average than Amagi, being rated at a 95 is pathetic when Amagi is rated at 77 in AA and yet they mirror each other in performance. Secondaries are a joke. Speed is decent and turning is the same as Amagi. Amagi has killer secondaries, can shoot too RANGE and hit consistently. Shell grouping is tighter, armor is BETTER and does not NEED torpedoes to be a quasi threat.

In retrospect, BB Kii is simply a Nagato with an extra turret and 4k more health. She is in actuality a Tier 7 BB shoehorned into a Tier 8 spot on the Tech Tree where she does not belong. Kii is SUPPOSED to be a Tier 9 that was modified to be a Tier 8. Sadly the armor stats, gun reload, range and sigma all suggest otherwise.

Do NOT buy the Kii, She is no Amagi in anyway shape or form except for outer appearances and that is barely the case. I bought the Kii hoping for a BETTER Amagi that can brawl and torp and be fun. Instead her guns feel like a limp d.i.c.k. heavy on the sauce and fortitude that would make the cheapest hooker look good, aka that hooker would be harder to disrobe than the Kii.

Wargaming, either fix this tub of crap or give me my money back. This is the worst Tier 8 BB to come to market and of course, because Russian's still hate the Japanese, you put to market a ship that has no business being in anything higher than a Tier 8 match and a ranking of Tier 7.

Thank you.

Here are my suggestions for making the Kii better. One; do away with the current armor layout and re use Amagi layout and beef it up. Two, give the guns a sigma of 1.8 MINIMUM and extend range to 20.5 km. Nagato has that range why can't the Kii? The Kii is SUPPOSED to be a BATTLESHIP, not an over glorified Heavy Cruiser. That is what the AMAGI is supposed to be but in reality, the Amagi is the true battleship between the two.

God Bless and please do what is right by your customers.

He's is right ,

 

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Hey

Well the Kii, how much I really keep trying this boat BUT it continues to be an utter piece of garbage.  The guns are so utterly steamy piles of rubbish, can't even kill a slow broadside cruiser at 8 km, since out of 10 guns, got 1 overpen and this happens all the times.  It's worse to play than the Monarch and for me the worse T8 BB in the game.  About 75K is about all I can milk and the average is closer to maybe 50K on average.  I shot my torps at a Tirpitz 5.2km away that had maybe 4k health and a cruiser killed him before my torps got there.  Don't buy the Kii.  My Gascogne is twice the boat this thing is.  If you want a decent T8 BB, get the Alabama or even the Tirpitz ( can't speak for the Mass. but it has to be better).

 

Pete

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