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Capt_Binkley

Khaborosk in current meta

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So I'm within 30k of finishing the grind in the Tashkent.  What are your thoughts about the Khab in the current meta?

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Drive it like a cruiser without a citadel and zoom around at a range where you can easily dodge fire. Then make tasty steaks for the enemy team.

 

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With AFT, DE, BFT, and the heal, she's a royal pain in the tush for CAs and BBs. However, her AA is lacking, so if CV around, get escort.

 

She also suffered an unnecessary torp nerf. Was 10km, now it's 6km, so island ambush only. WG needs to give Khab back the 10km torps.

 

However, there's also the ongoing argument about whether a Khab should take heal or smoke. Former allows a bit more surviving. Latter enables saving teammates, baiting torps, and vanishing from spotting aircraft. Generally Khabs who take heal are selfish players, since usually more benefit from smoke (assuming good teammates around). Overall teams seem to prefer a Khab with smoke and hate any such captain that brings heal instead.

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Khab does not need 10km torps when it gets 50mm belt and 25mm deck armor

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1 hour ago, Reymu said:

With AFT, DE, BFT, and the heal, she's a royal pain in the tush for CAs and BBs. However, her AA is lacking, so if CV around, get escort.

 

She also suffered an unnecessary torp nerf. Was 10km, now it's 6km, so island ambush only. WG needs to give Khab back the 10km torps.

 

However, there's also the ongoing argument about whether a Khab should take heal or smoke. Former allows a bit more surviving. Latter enables saving teammates, baiting torps, and vanishing from spotting aircraft. Generally Khabs who take heal are selfish players, since usually more benefit from smoke (assuming good teammates around). Overall teams seem to prefer a Khab with smoke and hate any such captain that brings heal instead.

 

Doesn't matter what other players think when such a high percentage don't play DD's well enough to comprehend the value a healing Khabarovsk has by being such an extreme annoyance they can force half the enemy fleet to disengage your team to try to get that Khab. Khabs strike more fear in many players than a Conqueror and for good reason. 

 

And why would I smoke someone who has a greater than 50% chance of either not using it or getting deleted by torps while sitting in it and most certainly forget to start moving before it ends so they don't get deleted by a BB as if they were beached. And Khabs shouldn't be hiding from planes in smoke, any half decent CV will still drop torps into it knowing Khabs suck at turning. 

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1 hour ago, Reymu said:

However, there's also the ongoing argument about whether a Khab should take heal or smoke. Former allows a bit more surviving. Latter enables saving teammates, baiting torps, and vanishing from spotting aircraft. Generally Khabs who take heal are selfish players, since usually more benefit from smoke (assuming good teammates around). Overall teams seem to prefer a Khab with smoke and hate any such captain that brings heal instead.

300 and counting Khab games and Ive never had a team complain that I was running Heal and not Smoke.  I think most players like the fact that we draw enemy fire, in mass quantities, which would otherwise be directed towards them.  

 

I'm not arguing with you, or saying it doesn't happen, but when I see a Khab smoke up, I'm a lot less concerned.  

 

Yes, most people, including myself, hate seeing a Khab on the other side.  But more often than not, a Khab captain with heal seems to be the better player.  At least in my experience.

 

B

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1 hour ago, MrDeaf said:

Khab does not need 10km torps when it gets 50mm belt and 25mm deck armor

this^^  better armored then some cruisers, faster than cruisers, and it gets a heal to heal any damage it may take.  it can still dump on other DDs even in close fights.   it is the best tier 10 cruiser for a reason.

 

as for the smoke vs heal.   yes, one is more team oriented than the other.  with that said.  a khaba is a major threat to most ships it will face,  the ability to heal and keep on doing what it does best throughout the entire match is pretty strong.  the more fire it draws from the enemy, the less their team is getting.   thanks to how hard it is to hit in the first place, on top of its armor to mitigate damage and heal to undo the damage, this makes for a really strong build.  plus speed is the khabas thing, so giving that up to sit in smoke doesn't seem like a good idea.  

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Nearing 600 games in the Khabarovsk alone, my take is as follows:

  • Take the premium heal and speed boost. You'll need them
  • Get PT, LS, DE, and AFT first and foremost. SE and SI I also highly reccomend
  • If you have a Engine Boost Mod1, put it on the Khab. So you can go nearly 50 knots for longer
  • Your main job is to harass the enemy with a constant stream of HE shells, and also to draw their fire away from your allies. The heal helps greatly with this
  • After all that, profit

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9 hours ago, Reymu said:

However, there's also the ongoing argument about whether a Khab should take heal or smoke. Former allows a bit more surviving. Latter enables saving teammates, baiting torps, and vanishing from spotting aircraft. Generally Khabs who take heal are selfish players, since usually more benefit from smoke (assuming good teammates around). Overall teams seem to prefer a Khab with smoke and hate any such captain that brings heal instead.

 

The upcoming adjustments to smoke will undoubtedly soften the arguments against the heal. Frankly I've never had anyone in game "hate" me for bringing a heal though I have heard of the selfish claims in an ichase / notser video... Can't remember. Whichever one it was toured around the map and essentially rinsed every ship in range down with rocket fuel with impunity- healing damage and carrying on. 

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8 hours ago, Frederick_The_Great said:

this^^  better armored then some cruisers, faster than cruisers, and it gets a heal to heal any damage it may take.  it can still dump on other DDs even in close fights.   it is the best tier 10 cruiser for a reason.

That's a bit of a stretch.  What do you mean "better armored"?  There are tier 4 cruisers with thicker armor, and that 50mm plate can be a bit of a mixed bag.  Sure it makes the Khaba very resistant to most HE, but in turn it makes it far weaker to AP.  The Khaba may be insanely fast, but its speed is gimped by having a comparatively very short 13.5km max firing range.  For comparison's sake, the Henri has a 19.1km firing range and can go 43 knots with speed boost.  The Khaba may have a heal, but it still has far less HP than contemporary cruisers.

The Khaba is with out a doubt a fantastically powerful ship, but I don't buy the whole "best cruiser" argument.  It fills its own niche, and benefits from having cruiser like attributes, but I still maintain it can't out cruiser the other cruisers*.

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2 hours ago, yashma said:

That's a bit of a stretch.  What do you mean "better armored"?  There are tier 4 cruisers with thicker armor, and that 50mm plate can be a bit of a mixed bag.  Sure it makes the Khaba very resistant to most HE, but in turn it makes it far weaker to AP.  The Khaba may be insanely fast, but its speed is gimped by having a comparatively very short 13.5km max firing range.  For comparison's sake, the Henri has a 19.1km firing range and can go 43 knots with speed boost.  The Khaba may have a heal, but it still has far less HP than contemporary cruisers.

The Khaba is with out a doubt a fantastically powerful ship, but I don't buy the whole "best cruiser" argument.  It fills its own niche, and benefits from having cruiser like attributes, but I still maintain it can't out cruiser the other cruisers*.

correct me if i am wrong, but that 50mm covers the entire mid section of the ship, and the deck, allowing it to stop 203mm HE and it can bounce BB shells.  it can " tank" BB shells which some cruisers cant if angled.(which i seen some khabas do to others)  the only way some cruisers can bounce BB shells is if they angle, and the BBs shoot at the one part of the side of the ship that can bounce the shells.(so down where the cit is)  if they aim high, they can just lulpen.

 

but yea, if they aren't angled enough, BB Ap can do a # against them.  but that is similar for most DDs who are "angled" towards or away from a BB.

 

as for the best cruiser bit.  it was a joke, as the khaba is a cruiser without a cit basically, with how it acts. 

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cruisers do what Khab does better, specifically the Henri which is a Khabarovsk without its weaknesses. Khabarovsk is too vulnerable to planes and getting blown out of the water by BBs for my taste.

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11 hours ago, bassmasta76 said:

300 and counting Khab games and Ive never had a team complain that I was running Heal and not Smoke.  I think most players like the fact that we draw enemy fire, in mass quantities, which would otherwise be directed towards them.  

 

I'm not arguing with you, or saying it doesn't happen, but when I see a Khab smoke up, I'm a lot less concerned.  

 

Yes, most people, including myself, hate seeing a Khab on the other side.  But more often than not, a Khab captain with heal seems to be the better player.  At least in my experience.

 

B

 

When you are averaging 1.8 million potential damage a round? That is a lot of crap that could have been flung at your teammates, but harmlessly fell into the water behind you...

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3 hours ago, yashma said:

That's a bit of a stretch.  What do you mean "better armored"?  There are tier 4 cruisers with thicker armor, and that 50mm plate can be a bit of a mixed bag.  Sure it makes the Khaba very resistant to most HE, but in turn it makes it far weaker to AP.  The Khaba may be insanely fast, but its speed is gimped by having a comparatively very short 13.5km max firing range.  For comparison's sake, the Henri has a 19.1km firing range and can go 43 knots with speed boost.  The Khaba may have a heal, but it still has far less HP than contemporary cruisers.

The Khaba is with out a doubt a fantastically powerful ship, but I don't buy the whole "best cruiser" argument.  It fills its own niche, and benefits from having cruiser like attributes, but I still maintain it can't out cruiser the other cruisers*.

 

It also has no citadel, which makes it best cruiser. 

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Playing the Khab is simple.  Just zoom around the perimeter of wherever the fighting is occurring and wear out your LMB.  Pretty much like the Kiev and Tashkent.  That's all there is to it, really.

 

I actually stopped playing the Khab for a while because I was getting bored with it.

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10 minutes ago, Kuckoo said:

Playing the Khab is simple.  Just zoom around the perimeter of wherever the fighting is occurring and wear out your LMB.  Pretty much like the Kiev and Tashkent.  That's all there is to it, really.

 

I actually stopped playing the Khab for a while because I was getting bored with it.

 

Who said anything about wearing out mouse 1?

 

Just tape it down and profit.

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1 hour ago, Frederick_The_Great said:

correct me if i am wrong, but that 50mm covers the entire mid section of the ship, and the deck, allowing it to stop 203mm HE and it can bounce BB shells.  it can " tank" BB shells which some cruisers cant if angled.(which i seen some khabas do to others)  the only way some cruisers can bounce BB shells is if they angle, and the BBs shoot at the one part of the side of the ship that can bounce the shells.(so down where the cit is)  if they aim high, they can just lulpen.

 

but yea, if they aren't angled enough, BB Ap can do a # against them.  but that is similar for most DDs who are "angled" towards or away from a BB.

 

as for the best cruiser bit.  it was a joke, as the khaba is a cruiser without a cit basically, with how it acts. 

Not quite, the 50mm armored plate covers enough area to stop some shells, but it's also small enough the Khaba will still absolutely melt if it finds itself too close to a Zao or Moskva, let alone a Hindenburg which can just ignore the 50mm plate.  The Khaba can also in theory bounce BB shells, but in practice it's simply not practical.  If the Khaba angles, the 50mm plate is too small to reliably bounce shells, and the odds of suffering regular pen damage greatly go up.  It's not uncommon to lose 20k HP to a single BB salvo if you're caught at the right angle.  I actually find the best survival tip in the Khaba is to just sail in a straight line and hope for over pens.  

 

36 minutes ago, RevolutionBlues said:

 

It also has no citadel, which makes it best cruiser. 

I disagree.  By Tier 10 cruisers are far less hampered by having citadels, and proper positioning can drastically reduce the chance of being devastating striked, Minotaur aside.  Cruisers bring more firepower to the table, and with the inclusion of radar, hydro, and defensive fire they also offer more utility.

The Khaba is a fantastic ship, but it still can't out cruiser a cruiser.  Take for example a Hindenburg.  This is arguably the most well rounded Tier 10 cruisers.  It has strong AAA, or the option to mount the best hydro in the game.  It can burn BBs to a crisp, at ranges up to 20km, it is far better suited to punishing broadside targets given how  big a punch its AP packs, it can actually go toe to toe with most cruisers and in a pinch can even brawl with a BB.  

Long story short, a Khaba can not serve as a AAA escort, a Khaba can not burn BBs down 20km away hampering the utility of its positioning, a Khaba can not punish broadside cruises for 20k volleys and a Khaba can not go toe to toe against most cruisers and stand its ground.  

Edited by yashma

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1 minute ago, twitch133 said:

 

Who said anything about wearing out mouse 1?

 

Just tape it down and profit.

 

:Smile_teethhappy:

 

Anyway, I'm one of these guys who believes you get a small accuracy bonus if you wait a second or two before firing again after your guns reload.  Maybe I'm just tricking myself and just being more careful with my aim by doing so.  I dunno.

 

 

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Just now, Kuckoo said:

 

:Smile_teethhappy:

 

Anyway, I'm one of these guys who believes you get a small accuracy bonus if you wait a second or two before firing again after your guns reload.  Maybe I'm just tricking myself and just being more careful with my aim by doing so.  I dunno.

 

 

 

I think it is due to being able to adjust your aim inbetween shots, instead of having all of them delivered to the same spot...

 

Just my 0.02$

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13 hours ago, NightTerror said:

"than a Conqueror"?

I don't fear Conquerors at all, honestly I don't see what the belly aching is about.  Personally I'm at the Lion - and yes I do feel they need tone down the fire change 5-8% on the 16.5s.

But the high tier Brit BBs are soft, can't tank worth crap, they wither quickly under AP fire.   When playing a Brit you have to constantly angle off the enemy team behind cover, or be REALLY careful with your concealment get even a modicum of  focus and your [edited].  They also have a hard time in CV games, not because they lack AA, but because your constantly spotted and under fire.  

There's a reason most of the Conq you see now are 20km away snipping and the Unicom divs are back sailing the Montana.  The Conq's win rate is already sliding back down pretty fast.

I'm much more concerned with a well played Hindenberg of Zao on the other side.   Sure the Conq or Lion can get burn a BB pretty well, but the cruisers have the rate of fire to get multiple battleships burning at the same time.    And if you want to hit people for 10-15k at range, play and Monty or Yamato - the damage they do can't be recovered nearly as easily.

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20 hours ago, Capt_Binkley said:

So I'm within 30k of finishing the grind in the Tashkent.  What are your thoughts about the Khab in the current meta?

Acceleration, de-celeration and reverse acceleration equivalent to a Minotaur's forward accel...

Fantasy-worthy top speed 50+knots...

Laser flat arc firing guns with long range, absurd high refire+rotation rate+damage and three times the stated fire chance in stats...

Torps that are literally invisible until they hit...made invisible after ship lost the 10km torps it used to have. Yeah, only time WG has ever nerfed a ship and boosted something else in return. Dat bias yo!

Longest duration smoke...

Strongest AA of any DD...

50mm of armor which has been proven to be full of zero-damage locations..just like the WOT Type 59 tank had! When a DD bounces off a Yamato AP shell you know glorious hand of Putin is in play...fapfapfap

Highest HP of any DD...

OH! And hey, a HEAL!

If you like victory handed to you in a silver platter by the absurd soviet bias this game has...and are deluded enough to believe it is because you have any skill to speak of.... then yes, you will love it!

 

 

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13 hours ago, VGLance said:

 

Doesn't matter what other players think when such a high percentage don't play DD's well enough to comprehend the value a healing Khabarovsk has by being such an extreme annoyance they can force half the enemy fleet to disengage your team to try to get that Khab. Khabs strike more fear in many players than a Conqueror and for good reason. 

 

And why would I smoke someone who has a greater than 50% chance of either not using it or getting deleted by torps while sitting in it and most certainly forget to start moving before it ends so they don't get deleted by a BB as if they were beached. And Khabs shouldn't be hiding from planes in smoke, any half decent CV will still drop torps into it knowing Khabs suck at turning. 

I'd agree with this, the healing Khab (I good one at least) can turn whole flanks solo if the BBs are timid, which lets face it most are.   A speed+Khab is the almost perfect flanker and harasser, you don't need smoke to support the team, and it's going to of less utility soon regardless (I personally agree with the proposed smoke changes, I'm sick of smoke cheese divisions - let them adopt some actual team play instead of sitting a Montana in smoke and spamming)

If you want to play a Soviet support DD the Grozovoi doe's a much better job DF+smoke is actually pretty powerful.

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