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Kanzler_Bismarck

KII vs Amagi

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So, I dig Amagi. Sold her awhile back, then I rebought because she feels like  an authentic High Tier BC. I just like the way she looks/plays.

 

And now we have Kii, a sluggish Amagi with beast AAA and no torp protection. 

 

My question is this...

 

"Is Kii a viable Amagi replacement, or should I finally spring for premium Amagi camo?" 

 

Keeping in mind that I doubt I would keep both.

 

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i have kii, i like kii, the kii with the special camo is pretty cool. moral of the story imo get the kii. but on a more serious note its pretty similar to the amagi so if you like amagi but you want aa or you like bb's with torps shes a nice ship, not spectacular not bad but good. imo she may be a bit too average, personally i would have preferred longer range torps but shes adiquit shell kill things and if you you're careful with your side and angle decently shes hardy enough.i think if i were choosing between kii and tirpitz i would get tirpitz, i think i would also chose Alabama over her, but in my experience shes enjoyable to play and you dont have to struggle to use her, simply there are times when she can be punishing, and times when she can be rewarding. i feel like im contradicting my self a bit her so ill leave it as this shes very average, amagi shoots 1 sec faster and is a bit more survivable, kii has better aa and suicide torps, amagi is a tad more accurate, but kii prints credits with the special camo.

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Thanks for the detail! 

 

I have Tirp and Bama and find the AAA of Amagi "serviceable"...

 

Starting to sound like Prem Camo may be the way?

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thats up to you, for me it was ooo shiny new ship, and to be fair i also have the prinz eugan.  despite the flaws (which aren't that bad, cough cough torp bulge) i find the idea of an aa ijn bb kinda cool  so now im just sitting here like :cap_rambo:. like i said my only complaint is that the torps are really lacking for ijn torps, i think the guns are good enough, the armor could be better but i play a lot of cruisers so its not really a big deal to me. also the old amagi a hull is my favorite amagi hull so... ya that smoke stack looks really cool lol.

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1 hour ago, Kanzler_Bismarck said:

So, I dig Amagi. Sold her awhile back, then I rebought because she feels like  an authentic High Tier BC. I just like the way she looks/plays.

 

And now we have Kii, a sluggish Amagi with beast AAA and no torp protection. 

 

My question is this...

 

"Is Kii a viable Amagi replacement, or should I finally spring for premium Amagi camo?" 

 

Keeping in mind that I doubt I would keep both.

 

 

It's very easy to think Kii supplants Amagi the way Alabama did North Carolina.

 

But rest assured, Amagi's job security is quite safe as Tier VIII IJN BB.  Check LWM's review of her.  But here are some points.

 

Amagi - Not a gimmicky BB, one of the best icons of "Battlecruiser" in the game in any ship line.

+ Superior sigma / accurate guns, especially when ASM1 is used

+ Superior Secondaries

+ Better armor than Kii;  Has a trollish reputation in trying to citadel her

- No torps

- Very mediocre AA;  CVs are a definite threat

 

Kii - Very gimmicky BB with sharply contrasting strengths, weaknesses.

+ Superior AA, most especially with a decent dedication to an AA spec;  High Tier USN BB quality AA, unusual to have for a IJN BB as they all suck in AA, except for Kii.

+/- If you opt to buy the Loaded / Ultimate Bundle, you access a mission to get you the special perma-camo that has great stats.  Check the news page here for details.  Here is an image with the stats for default perma-camo Kii comes with, as well as the special one.

gzUsiUd.jpg

+/- Possesses torps but to launch, you have to show dangerous angles.

- Armor protection is worse than Amagi's.  You need to emphasize angling to mitigate this danger

- Weaker secondaries than Amagi

- Less accurate guns than Amagi

 

Drawn out answers:

Spoiler

The gun accuracy is a very noticeable thing, especially if you have ASM1-fitted Amagi like I do, when you try to use Kii's guns.  This is compounded if you slot anything else than ASM1 on Kii, i.e. use an AA Spec to promote that strength of the ship.  Amagi's gunnery is very comfortable.  Kii can be at times but when she's off, she's REALLY OFF.

 

People have been known to brawl, knife fight with Amagi, she's very deceptive in that regard and her secondaries have long been overlooked.  Her protection makes her trollish as people have noted how annoying it is to try to citadel her.  Kii doesn't have that.  Her secondaries as LWM pointed out, are lighter guns.  Her protection is not like Amagi.  And to use Kii's torps, you open yourself up to getting rekt.  Those torps make it look like Kii is a knife fighter the way Tirpitz is, but those bad secondaries and bad armor scheme, says otherwise.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Kanzler_Bismarck said:

Sounds like Amagi is my girl...

 

although... "HOLY CRAP DEM BONUSES THO!" 

 

 

 

The AA is a very reassuring thing, most especially with the uptick of Tier VII-VIII CVs being played.  Consider these CVs that Kii realistically expects to see:

Hiryu

Saipan

Strike / Stock Ranger

Kaga

Strike / Stock Lexington

Shokaku

Enterprise

The testing Wild Card that is Graf Zeppelin

 

These Tier VII-VIII CVs can be dangerous to BBs.  Kaga in particular can outright devastate Battleships with her mega-torpedo bomber attack.  Enterprise can sport AP bombs.  Etc.  When CVs are present, my feeling of security in Amagi goes down considerably.  When I sail AA spec Kii, I feel confident in my defense like I would in North Carolina.

 

The caveat to this is though there's an uptick of Tier VII-VIII CVs seeing action, you don't see them all the time.

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5 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

 

  When I sail AA spec Kii, I feel confident in my defense like I would in North Carolina.

 

The caveat to this is though there's an uptick of Tier VII-VIII CVs seeing action, you don't see them all the time.

^this, tbh when im using a cv amagi is my first target, big long ship with pathetic aa, its begging to be bombed. of course thats depending on the circumstances if you have an aa ship hugging you i wont bother you but its true that amagi is a juicy target from the air. although i cant say that that is necessarily enough to merit buying a t8 premium.

Edited by The_Red_Butcher

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5 minutes ago, The_Red_Butcher said:

^this, tbh when im using a cv amagi is my first target, big long ship with pathetic aa, its begging to be bombed. of course thats depending on the circumstances if you have an aa ship hugging you i wont bother you but its true that amagi is a juicy target from the air. although i cant say that that is necessarily enough to merit buying a t8 premium.

 

When I play CV, I too go straight for Amagi unless she's got AA friends near her.  Then you have NC, Alabama with great AA reputation.  The reputation is so good that sometimes non-upgraded, non-AA spec NC's get away in some matches with not being attacked by the CV.  Simply because of the ship's AA reputation and the CV didn't check stats while the match was still loading.

 

Kii will eventually get that AA reputation, and that feeling of security from air attacks.

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4 hours ago, Kanzler_Bismarck said:

So, I dig Amagi. Sold her awhile back, then I rebought because she feels like  an authentic High Tier BC. I just like the way she looks/plays.

 

And now we have Kii, a sluggish Amagi with beast AAA and no torp protection. 

 

My question is this...

 

"Is Kii a viable Amagi replacement, or should I finally spring for premium Amagi camo?" 

 

Keeping in mind that I doubt I would keep both.

 

 

 

Its like a slower Amagi with Torpitz capability.

 

Or basically WG is hoping the ship would sell like the Torpitz.

Edited by Eisennagel

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Kii with that camo can easily break 500,000k a game. Especially if you have a premium account.

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1 hour ago, IronWolfV said:

Kii with that camo can easily break 500,000k a game. Especially if you have a premium account.

I have Premium. My 1st game in the Kii - without flags - with a zero pt Captain - with the issue camo - I pulled in 400k

 

If you liked the Amagi, you will like the Kii. To me a BB is all about the main guns, and the Kii is accurate and hits hard. The fact that it prints credits is a sweet bonus.

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Played 9 games in my Kii yesterday, 5 in Co-Op to get a feel for her, and then 4 in Random. Love it. AA is outstanding, even without a AA spec commander. And she seems to like to citadel. Had 3 citadels in one game, last one won the battle for us. That may be just a lucky game, or it may be her AP shells are good. And she does print credits. I was amazed at how much I made in those 9 games. I bought it for the unique camo, and am only slightly disappointed in it, in that the photos of her in WG's ads show a black ship with the manga art on it, and when I got her, she was the normal gunmetal gray. Not a deal breaker though, and I now have a new favorite ship. Even with her shortcomings.

Edited by Nighteyez

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Im kinda disappointed with Kii, probably because i like Amagi so much. Amagi is all about amazing guns and how tank she is, but Kii trades the best things Amagi has for situational AA and even more situational torps. 

 

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Kii guns are bad, armor is bad (takes damage no matter what angle you use) Torps are too short, ship is too slow on turning, guns have less range and bad sigma. Amagi is better even though the Kii is supposed to be better. Dev's need to re calibrate the Kii. She should be better than Amagi, at east give her the guns she deserves and not the stock 16" Nagato/Amagi guns from the days when the old A hulls were in existence

Edited by Thewavis

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Kii has a very strong long range AA which can extend to 7.2km, with manual AA, the dps is gonna shred things before they even get to your mid range AA which is also strong

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The Kii suffers from anemic guns. Too many game I have played where I can barely crack 60k damage due to poor sigma which effects RNG rolls. Something has got to give.

Edited by Thewavis
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On 9/29/2017 at 3:53 PM, Thewavis said:

Kii guns are bad, armor is bad (takes damage no matter what angle you use) Torps are too short, ship is too slow on turning, guns have less range and bad sigma. Amagi is better even though the Kii is supposed to be better. Dev's need to re calibrate the Kii. She should be better than Amagi, at east give her the guns she deserves and not the stock 16" Nagato/Amagi guns from the days when the old A hulls were in existence

 

No, the Kii (nor any other premium ship) should NOT be better than the Amagi, she should be balanced with the Amagi and every other tier 8 BB.

OP premium ships cause all kinds of problems within a competitive game, especially with WGs unwillingness to ever nerf them even when deserved. They have their benefits but are not supposed to be pay2win vehicles.

Over the long haul game balance is more important than selling a few extra ships.

..

Edited by Dr_Powderfinger
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On 9/29/2017 at 2:53 PM, Thewavis said:

Kii guns are bad, armor is bad (takes damage no matter what angle you use) Torps are too short, ship is too slow on turning, guns have less range and bad sigma. Amagi is better even though the Kii is supposed to be better. Dev's need to re calibrate the Kii. She should be better than Amagi, at east give her the guns she deserves and not the stock 16" Nagato/Amagi guns from the days when the old A hulls were in existence

 

Kii's guns fire the exact same shells as Amagi. She has the exact same dispersion ratios, and shell ballistics. There are only three differences between the guns on them. 

1. 31 second reload on Kii—1 second longer than on Amagi. 

2. 1.7 sigma on Kii—0.1 less than Amagi. 

3. Slightly slower turret traverse. 

 

Other than those three things, the Kii has Amagi's guns. No old A-hull shenanigans here. 

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Which all makes a hell of difference in how they play. I have more games in Amagi than almost any player. i think I know the difference. I did not complain about reload, I want equal sigma and 20.5 km range. that's it!

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Kii is a slightly downgraded Amagi that gains torpedoes and enhanced AA. If you don't care for either of those perks and don't need an IJN premium ship, then stick with the Amagi because she is the slightly superior ship in most situations. That's not to say that the Kii is bad though since she still has the same heavy broadside and troll armor when angled that the Amagi has.

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On 9/23/2017 at 1:32 AM, Kanzler_Bismarck said:

So, I dig Amagi. Sold her awhile back, then I rebought because she feels like  an authentic High Tier BC. I just like the way she looks/plays.

 

And now we have Kii, a sluggish Amagi with beast AAA and no torp protection. 

 

My question is this...

 

"Is Kii a viable Amagi replacement, or should I finally spring for premium Amagi camo?" 

 

Keeping in mind that I doubt I would keep both.

 

I just want to say I played a few great game in Kii but I have not yet used its torp for once...

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On 9/23/2017 at 10:32 PM, Kanzler_Bismarck said:

So, I dig Amagi. Sold her awhile back, then I rebought because she feels like  an authentic High Tier BC. I just like the way she looks/plays.

 

And now we have Kii, a sluggish Amagi with beast AAA and no torp protection. 

 

My question is this...

 

"Is Kii a viable Amagi replacement, or should I finally spring for premium Amagi camo?" 

 

Keeping in mind that I doubt I would keep both.

 

If you like Amagi, you can make Kii work.

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On 9/23/2017 at 2:22 AM, Kanzler_Bismarck said:

Thanks for the detail! 

 

I have Tirp and Bama and find the AAA of Amagi "serviceable"...

 

Starting to sound like Prem Camo may be the way?

The special premium camo on the Kii prints credits. I do not have a Missouri but the Kii makes money unless you eat a 40k citadel at the beginning ... I have also never played Amagi or Nagato, I hate the Mutsu and I like the Kii but it is fragile; much more so than I'm used to in a BB. I keep hearing about how amazingly strong and accurate IJN guns are (I've played DD to t10 and shima is my #1 played ship but the other lines more like t6) but I'm not really seeing it - maybe it's the constant uptiering which makes the guns seem lackluster. Yea, I can get the occasional citadel I might not have gotten in a KM BB at range but overall they're kind of underwhelming given that I've seen people call it at T8 Yamato which seems entirely disingenuous. The HE is okay but it's no RN.

Honestly enjoying t8 at all isn't easy. Constantly uptiered in all of my t8s. Mine is AA specced which when you can use it is awesome but it's rare enough that there is both a CV and he tries to focus me that I'm considering respeccing. The torps are okay but it's no Tirpitz. The secondaries are terrible.I have premiums in port that I've literally never played so at least I like it enough to take it out between Harekaze and Z-23 games (working my way up the KM DDs).

However with it being premium there is always a chance that it will get a buff down the line (seems unlikely but possible).

@RivertheRoyal - The turret traverse is a noticeable issue. It's slow enough to usually force rudder shifting to try to accelerate it.

 

Edited by w4spl3g
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