Jump to content
You need to play a total of 10 battles to post in this section.
AMajor

A very confused Mutsuki driver

34 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

77
[DBM]
Members
354 posts
3,893 battles

Just starting on the Tier V dd ships (I also have the Nicholas).  My Mutsuki captain has priority target and last stand skills so he's young.  Not a bad Isokase and Clemson driver so I know about theses IJN boats and their strengths (torps) and weaknesses (guns).

I know her stats: Torps - 8.0 kms, concealment - 6.0 with camo, guns - 8.9, AA - not that effective so turn auto off at the start.

I fought i seven battles tonight (5 in Co-op and two in Random).  I have yet to hit a thing.  It's not like I'm hanging back.  I set up my shots, fire my torps, and run behind an island just like any good torp boat does.  The problem is that someone kills the target before my torps get there.

The last battle, my team was screaming for help because the red team had tried to flank us. I put the coals to her (Sierra Mike flag plus the Y-boost makes for a blazingly fast ship) and got back.  I fired my torps, and was just ready to celebrate my first hit when one of my cruiser team took out the first ship, and then the second.

I've learned in Tier IV that if you are too aggressive in a dd, you get burned.

Should I change my tactics now that I am at Tier V?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,785
Members
9,958 posts
5 minutes ago, AMajor said:

Just starting on the Tier V dd ships (I also have the Nicholas).  My Mutsuki captain has priority target and last stand skills so he's young.  Not a bad Isokase and Clemson driver so I know about theses IJN boats and their strengths (torps) and weaknesses (guns).

I know her stats: Torps - 8.0 kms, concealment - 6.0 with camo, guns - 8.9, AA - not that effective so turn auto off at the start.

I fought i seven battles tonight (5 in Co-op and two in Random).  I have yet to hit a thing.  It's not like I'm hanging back.  I set up my shots, fire my torps, and run behind an island just like any good torp boat does.  The problem is that someone kills the target before my torps get there.

The last battle, my team was screaming for help because the red team had tried to flank us. I put the coals to her (Sierra Mike flag plus the Y-boost makes for a blazingly fast ship) and got back.  I fired my torps, and was just ready to celebrate my first hit when one of my cruiser team took out the first ship, and then the second.

I've learned in Tier IV that if you are too aggressive in a dd, you get burned.

Should I change my tactics now that I am at Tier V?

 

Due to the birthday hidden achievements, co-op has become farmville on water, if you don't get aggressive, you'll miss out.

IJN dd's aren't really known for guns, they are a 2ndary consideration... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,968
[SYN]
Members
14,439 posts
10,418 battles

Mutsuki torps are total and utter garbage, that get spotted very far out, and leaves a lot of reaction time for the intended target.

Don't worry, trash torps are a thing until T9 on the IJN DD line.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
77
[DBM]
Members
354 posts
3,893 battles

OK, so should I start playing her like a USN dd?  Is she an ambush boat?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
77
[DBM]
Members
354 posts
3,893 battles

Damn it, it just happened again.  At least I got a little credit this time (93).  Is the role of the Tier V dds to be shepherd?  We scare them into the path of the bigger ships? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4
[SYN]
Members
53 posts
2,529 battles

I only ever played the Mutsuki when she was T6, but even then she was decidedly underwhelming. This may have changed, but I remember her as really just having no particular strengths. You're in for the long haul, I'm afraid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,968
[SYN]
Members
14,439 posts
10,418 battles
34 minutes ago, AMajor said:

OK, so should I start playing her like a USN dd?  Is she an ambush boat?

 

no, Mutsuki isn't even good at that, because only 6 torps that don't do all that much damage

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
77
[DBM]
Members
354 posts
3,893 battles

OK,..so what is the the next boat after the Isokaze? I like playing the stealth torp boat. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,968
[SYN]
Members
14,439 posts
10,418 battles

All the IJN DDs, except for Akizuki, are stealthy torp boats, but the torps are crapuntil you get to Yugumo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,827
[V_KNG]
Beta Testers
9,282 posts
1 hour ago, MrDeaf said:

Mutsuki torps are total and utter garbage, that get spotted very far out, and leaves a lot of reaction time for the intended target.

Don't worry, trash torps are a thing until T9 on the IJN DD line.

 

This - go into your port, look at the torp specs in-depth, review their concealment/spotting distance. It helps explain a lot of things as to why torps dont hit targets. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,827
[V_KNG]
Beta Testers
9,282 posts
12 minutes ago, MrDeaf said:

All the IJN DDs, except for Akizuki, are stealthy torp boats, but the torps are crapuntil you get to Yugumo.

 

Kami R says hello ;-) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,968
[SYN]
Members
14,439 posts
10,418 battles
Just now, Herr_Reitz said:

 

Kami R says hello ;-) 

that's a premium that can no longer be sold, however.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,377
[RLGN]
Members
8,241 posts
17,239 battles
1 hour ago, AMajor said:

OK, so should I start playing her like a USN dd?  Is she an ambush boat?

 

43 minutes ago, MrDeaf said:

no, Mutsuki isn't even good at that, because only 6 torps that don't do all that much damage

 

Ambush boat is EXACTLY how I play Mutsuki... Long range torps are for the same thing they are in any destroyer; shots into bottlenecks and wide-spread area attack. Mutsuki may have cork-guns; but I never, NEVER hesitate to use them against a weak target.

 

Scout, scout, scout... Oh, look at that guy off by themself, sneak, sneak, sneak, ZOT.

 

Don't claim to be Mister Super IJN DD driver by any means; but I'm 57% win rate in both versions.

 

33 minutes ago, AMajor said:

OK,..so what is the the next boat after the Isokaze? I like playing the stealth torp boat. 

 

Mutsuki and Minekaze; IJN line split at tier 5.

 

30 minutes ago, MrDeaf said:

All the IJN DDs, except for Akizuki, are stealthy torp boats, but the torps are crapuntil you get to Yugumo.

 

Mutsuki's torps will absolutely murder just about anything if you can get at least two hits. Point blank against and ambushed battleship, it it isn't dead; it will wish it was.

 

'Ambush;' I don't mean some foolish attempt to torp something from 5k or more; I litterally mean getting to point-blank range and knifing the target in the back. Proximity spotting range or less... (2k.)

 

Hard for the enemy to blow up your dinky little destroyer if they're sunk.

 

Mutsuki takes an experienced touch, but she is one seriously mean little destroyer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,262
[FOXEH]
Beta Testers
8,796 posts
15,175 battles
1 hour ago, AMajor said:

I've learned in Tier IV that if you are too aggressive in a dd, you get burned.

Should I change my tactics now that I am at Tier V?

Yeah, you should, because there is a huge meta change at tier 5. You get "bend over" matchmaking; introduction to radar; up to tier 9 airplanes; many more hydro capable ships; and everything else that a thousand MM Forum posts have complained about. Stealth becomes much more important and much harder to achieve; and that is just the beginning.

1 hour ago, AMajor said:

I fought i seven battles tonight (5 in Co-op and two in Random).  I have yet to hit a thing.

 Tier 5 is also where the IJN torps begin to experience orbital detection values which are much greater than other nations in the game (despite the fact that the IJN "Long Lance" torpedo was both the best and the stealthiest torp in use during the war). These detection ranges become even more pronouncedly prejudicial as you get to higher tiers, but if you would like to know where they should be check out Fujin's torps as they used to be almost identical to Minikaze's.

1 hour ago, AMajor said:

I've learned in Tier IV that if you are too aggressive in a dd, you get burned.

Re-Learn this times ten.

1 hour ago, AMajor said:

 Is the role of the Tier V dds to be shepherd?

Spotting is, and will always be, a DD's job. Having said that, remember when I said stealth became much more important at higher tiers? It is for spotting. At the mid tiers area denial really becomes possible, especially if you are working in conjunction with another DD with decently ranged torps. Keeping your flanks free of red DD's is important when you have CV's or many BB's, both spotting for your cruisers and eliminating them yourself. Capping, again, is a rewarding activity both personally and for your team; though it is not recommended early on in the match and any Captain should always have somewhere and someone to run away towards.

1 hour ago, AMajor said:

OK,..so what is the the next boat after the Isokaze? I like playing the stealth torp boat.

Minikaze, still a competitive ship.

51 minutes ago, Herr_Reitz said:

This - go into your port, look at the torp specs in-depth, review their concealment/spotting distance. It helps explain a lot of things as to why torps dont hit targets.

It will also tell you which torp choices will benefit the most from choosing torp accel with a dedicated Captain (should you so choose).

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
1,834 posts
10,762 battles
10 hours ago, MrDeaf said:

Mutsuki torps are total and utter garbage, that get spotted very far out, and leaves a lot of reaction time for the intended target.

Don't worry, trash torps are a thing until T9 on the IJN DD line.

Yes. Mutsuki torp is the one single biggest regression in IJN DD line progression. That's saying a lot for IJN torps. The slight increase of range and speed is sadly not enough to cover the spike of detection distance.

And she has to face T7 often thanks to MM when she can barely keep up with the same tier competition.

Advice: grind thru her ASAP. Fubuki is not great but serviceable for her 3x3 launchers and average performing 10km torps. Unfortunately you need to grind a bit more to get the 10km fish. She and Hatsuharu are the only IJN DDs that can't steal torp out of the box, IIRC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,225
[-TAB-]
Alpha Tester
4,087 posts
7,625 battles

This sounds like you're having a mix of bad luck and bad judgment in your targets.  You don't necessarily want to be launching torpedoes at an enemy who is already getting shot up by your teammates; in this case you want to go for a torp run on an enemy who isn't being threatened.  In Isokaze and Minekaze you have both the speed, number of torpedoe launchers and quick reload to be able to run fast and loose with who you target with torpedoes, but with Mutsuki and all other higher-tier Japanese destroyers, your reload gets much longer, and many of these destroyers only have two launchers rather than three, so you have to think a lot more about when you want to launch, because if you make a mistake and miss or launch them at someone who is going to sink before your torpedoes hit, you aren't going to get good results.

 

On a side-note, this is also when Japanese destroyers start having reasonably good guns.  A wise mix of setting fires with their guns and causing floods with your torpedoes can really build up damage over time.

 

As a second side-note, Mutsuki just sucks.  Think of it as you're in the worst of this different style of Japanese destroyers, and everything after her gets better and better as you go up in tier.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
76
[WAIFU]
[WAIFU]
Members
351 posts
9,329 battles
13 hours ago, Seraphil said:

As a second side-note, Mutsuki just sucks.  Think of it as you're in the worst of this different style of Japanese destroyers, and everything after her gets better and better as you go up in tier.

 

Or gets harder since rader becomes a thing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
277
[CVA16]
Members
2,266 posts
9,849 battles
On 9/22/2017 at 10:26 PM, Umikami said:

Spotting is, and will always be, a DD's job.

True, but it is a not very rewarding job. Its not a lot of fun and you won't get much credit. In fact, it that is all you get to do (all your torps miss) you will get a "Did not prove yourself" admonishment at the end of the battle even if you kept the team smoked for much of the time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
112
[GLF]
Members
777 posts
9,294 battles

I remember grinding through mutsuki and hatsu when they were t6 and t7 respectively.   The only thing I remember carrying over from those ships is that you dont really get to do devstrikes anymore unless you ambush.   I was far more effective with 2x3 launchers firing a staggered wide spread 15-20 sec apart in front of targets (second one always ahead of the first) and hoping they blew their DC on the first hit, so you can get a flood with the second.  Thats how i limped through mutsu and hatsu originally and is the only thing i remember learning about them to do damage even close to what one could call reliably.  Torpedo hit rates suffered with both of these ships at 6% versus my normal 10-11%  This was all pre-radar though.   Radar pretty much ruins everything now at these levels.  Just expect 5-6 out of 10 battles to be radared-->dead.   Especially so until they take away the battleship AP pen hits on dd's from any angle <90*.  

 

Now at t6, hatsu is a WAY better ship than she was then.  Didn't bother going back to mutsu since i have all 3 kamikaze's. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29
[S_B]
Members
416 posts
10,701 battles

My Mutsuki concealment is 5.6 with the 4th level captain skill. My high game in her is 146K damage with 4 sunk. I hardly ever fire my guns and just keep spamming torps at mainly BBs. I avoid anything that can hunt me down. I like to cap and torp BBs or CVs with her.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,377
[RLGN]
Members
8,241 posts
17,239 battles
On 9/23/2017 at 9:11 AM, chewonit said:

Yes. Mutsuki torp is the one single biggest regression in IJN DD line progression. That's saying a lot for IJN torps. The slight increase of range and speed is sadly not enough to cover the spike of detection distance.

 

On 9/24/2017 at 5:55 AM, Seraphil said:

As a second side-note, Mutsuki just sucks.  Think of it as you're in the worst of this different style of Japanese destroyers, and everything after her gets better and better as you go up in tier.

 

Couldn't disagree more. Mutsuki to me has always been a stalking assassin that knifes targets in the back with a point-blank ambush; area denial works as well, but like most other IJN DDs; I never coun't on anything but lucky his with such long-range launches. Only think I've had equal success with stalking Reds are Apple, Blueberry, and Pumpkin.

 

Mutsuki's torpedoes are a regression? They're 10k murder machines that can seriously hurt things with just a hit or two, and will just about put anything in its machmaking range down for the count if it can spread 4-6 torp hits out and avoid damage saturation.

 

16 hours ago, dust340man said:

My Mutsuki concealment is 5.6 with the 4th level captain skill. My high game in her is 146K damage with 4 sunk. I hardly ever fire my guns and just keep spamming torps at mainly BBs. I avoid anything that can hunt me down. I like to cap and torp BBs or CVs with her.

 

Not so great in the damage department myself; but in terms of un-countered spotting, mid-to-late-game capping, and ambush attacks I think I do well enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
1,834 posts
10,762 battles
9 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Mutsuki's torpedoes are a regression? They're 10k murder machines that can seriously hurt things with just a hit or two, and will just about put anything in its machmaking range down for the count if it can spread 4-6 torp hits out and avoid damage saturation.

 

Not sure where you get that 10km range. It's Type 8 mod. 3 with 8km range, and 22% increase of reaction time over Isokaze's Type 6.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,377
[RLGN]
Members
8,241 posts
17,239 battles
2 hours ago, chewonit said:

Not sure where you get that 10km range. It's Type 8 mod. 3 with 8km range, and 22% increase of reaction time over Isokaze's Type 6.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

You're right, my mistake.. They actually do 14,600 damage...

 

Just about the only things that won't die from eating such Murder Machine torpedoes, at the tiers Mutsuki can expect to see, are New Mexico; which has the most trolling Torpedo Protection of any ship, (42%,) and Colorado, (39%.) The only ship with a Higher rating is Yamato, (55%,) which Mutsuki will never see.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
599
[ARRGG]
Members
4,731 posts
7,565 battles

You have to be more stealthy, firing Torps from anything but close in open water usually results in a miss ... get closer.. use Islands to hide

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
277
[CVA16]
Members
2,266 posts
9,849 battles
12 hours ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

The only ship with a Higher rating is Yamato, (55%,) which Mutsuki will never see.

Well I suppose with some ultimate fail division...

 

I never liked the Mutsuki but for some reason have a decent win rate in the thing. The lack of guns (you are out-gunned by everything you will face) and the slow reloading torps are huge downsides. At one time it was vastly inferior to its stablemate Minekaze but things have evened out a bit after Minekaze got bludgeoned. It is possible to do well in it. One advantage it does have is you may actually shoot down shaddowing planes.

 

Edited by Sabot_100

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×