Jump to content
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
Admiral_Thrawn_1

Would it be legal to have Yamato built by private citizen?

57 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

1,273
[RKLES]
Members
7,213 posts
9,006 battles

Ok just had a thought and need some info, if a Billionare wanted to have exact Yamato fully functioning replica built of Yamato with the intent of donating it to the nation of Japan as a memorial / museum how much international trouble would that create for a private citizen to have done? Esoevially since it may or may not be able to be built in Japan, of course it would be preferable to have it built in Japan, but if it needed to be built elsewhere you would have trouble of sailong it to Japan and since I just had this idea I have no idea what international laws are on having a civilian build a Warship much less having a Super Battleship built...

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
124
[DARTH]
Members
537 posts
11,496 battles

If you have to ask, you can't afford it.

Seriously, Paul Allen could buy (insert ship here), or possibly even afford to have one built.

The catch is that the armament would have to be clearly non-functional.

Just like today, in the USA, you can buy a MIG-15, or T-34 tank, but ... the armament has to be removed/rendered non-functional.

Exception: If you get a Class III permit/tax stamp, that's a whole 'nother mater, but ... a Yamato would be a whole lotta stamps.

(Once upon a time, I knew a fella, heart surgeon, who owned a T-34.  He and some other goobers would have tank battles firing blanks/paint shells in the back woods and fields of Indiana or somewhere.  Those toys are way too rich for my blood)

:cap_look:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,307
[PVE]
[PVE]
Members
4,113 posts
8,680 battles

@Admiral_Thrawn_1 it is a cool idea. But I am not even sure if there place that could make her especially her guns!

Man I would love to see it done :Smile_medal:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
404
[WOLF5]
Members
1,538 posts
2,137 battles

I really don't know.

 

Assuming there isn't a law against those things in Japan, the biggest worry would be the armament. A ship that size is pretty much a strategic weapon, and would get EVERYONE concerned. You'd have to convince most of the world that no, you were not building this BB for war purposes. Good luck with that. 

The weapons would clearly have to be non-working. The problem is that, well, there's a lot of weapons on a BB. 9 18.1in guns, the vast array of secondaries, and who knows how many AA guns. They would all have to be unusable. Do you really want to ramp up production of that much weaponry just to disable it all. And of course, if it was a real model, it would all be able to be reactivated with a little work, which would again raise red flags.

 

Legal issues aside, I don't think the construction still exists to build it. The US is the only country capable of handling that. We have CVN docks that could handle it, and the steel cutting needed. But do we have any clear right now? We're building a new line of CVNs. I don't think they're going to delay those just for a museum piece. And it's not like you could build a new shipyard that size. But the biggest issue would be the armor. I don't think the facilities exist anymore for the massive plating needed for the Yamato. I think we were maxing out with the Iowas, and no one needs armor that size any more. Also, I'm sure we don't have the capability to fabricate the guns. And you'd have to retool a factory or two to make the secondary and AA guns as well, since obviously they don't make those. We're talking about revamping a massive industry being created for one purpose and ship. Probably not going to happen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
820
[ARMDA]
Members
8,993 posts
3,574 battles

Cheapest way to make a dummy.

Just like the half split Titanic museums in Pigeon Forge and Branson, we can easily build a Yamato with plaster/brickwork, or even do what they did for Men of Yamato.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,307
[PVE]
[PVE]
Members
4,113 posts
8,680 battles
32 minutes ago, Chaos_EN2 said:

But I am not even sure if there place that could make her especially her guns!

Well I was wrong I look it up.

And so the Japanese government poured money into a Hokkaido firm called Japan Steel Works (JSW), which built the big guns. Although Japan lost the war, JSW's advanced knowledge of steel-working survived. In the 80 years since, the company has put it to use building something equally remarkable: the reactor vessels of nuclear power plants.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
389
[POP]
Members
1,235 posts
8,289 battles

I think that several super tankers are larger than the Yamato. They might be looking for things to build in about 30 years. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,640 posts
7,476 battles
18 minutes ago, AJTP89 said:

I don't think the construction still exists to build it.

Yamato is quite small by modern standards, I know our superliners the QE3 and such are around 300m in length and 90000 in displacement.

The issue would be the amount of steel for her belt armor, which was so thick the IJN could not physically make it in 1 unit.

 

A better solution would be to raise and preserve the IJN Musashi ala mary rose style, shes in a better condition and a more suitable position for raising if im not wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
404
[WOLF5]
Members
1,538 posts
2,137 battles
Just now, Akeno017 said:

Yamato is quite small by modern standards, I know our superliners the QE3 and such are around 300m in length and 90000 in displacement.

The issue would be the amount of steel for her belt armor, which was so thick the IJN could not physically make it in 1 unit.

 

A better solution would be to raise and preserve the IJN Musashi ala mary rose style, shes in a better condition and a more suitable position for raising if im not wrong.

Yeah, the Yamato is unreachable I think. Also, her magazines blew as she sunk, so she's probably in a couple of pieces. The Musashi went in relatively shallow water. I believe they were trying to beach her. Still, raising a ship raises war grave issues. They haven't said where exactly the Indy is for that reason.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,719 posts
3,130 battles

Legaly there is no issue they just cant be combat functional, other factors also raise concerns mainly to make a ship like that sea legal you would have to add modern Radar and Navigation equipment so it wouldn't be 1 to 1 the same.

 

24 minutes ago, Akeno017 said:

A better solution would be to raise and preserve the IJN Musashi ala mary rose style, shes in a better condition and a more suitable position for raising if im not wrong.

 

While it sounds like a good idea the Musashi herself sits in waters claimed by another country and as she is a war grave you need to question whether it would be ethical to raise a ship that size just to satisfy our morbid curiosity in a ship.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,273
[RKLES]
Members
7,213 posts
9,006 battles
1 hour ago, Korval_BB55 said:

If you have to ask, you can't afford it.

Seriously, Paul Allen could buy (insert ship here), or possibly even afford to have one built.

The catch is that the armament would have to be clearly non-functional.

Just like today, in the USA, you can buy a MIG-15, or T-34 tank, but ... the armament has to be removed/rendered non-functional.

Exception: If you get a Class III permit/tax stamp, that's a whole 'nother mater, but ... a Yamato would be a whole lotta stamps.

(Once upon a time, I knew a fella, heart surgeon, who owned a T-34.  He and some other goobers would have tank battles firing blanks/paint shells in the back woods and fields of Indiana or somewhere.  Those toys are way too rich for my blood)

:cap_look:

Yamato would need functional main guns if the plan was to donate an exact replica. Lol of course 18 inch shells are not just layng around so even if you did get it built n the US I doubt they would be concerned.   I doubt a US Shipyard would even be able to handle a ship Yamato size, more than likely Japan would undertake the construction.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,338 posts
2,701 battles

First you'll have to find the construction plans to Yamato itself, then you have to think the sheer size of the ship and the facilities we no longer have to create armor and guns of that thickness/size.

 

Good luck finding anything close to full plans to Yamato, seeing how they were beyond classified and destroyed when Japan lost the war.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,273
[RKLES]
Members
7,213 posts
9,006 battles
37 minutes ago, devastator5000 said:

Legaly there is no issue they just cant be combat functional, other factors also raise concerns mainly to make a ship like that sea legal you would have to add modern Radar and Navigation equipment so it wouldn't be 1 to 1 the same.

 

 

While it sounds like a good idea the Musashi herself sits in waters claimed by another country and as she is a war grave you need to question whether it would be ethical to raise a ship that size just to satisfy our morbid curiosity in a ship.

Considering the purpose of the ship would be to donate to Japan odds are you could get some temporary Nav gear that would be removable once the final destination was reached. And that would only be needed if you built it on a nation other than Japan.

 

Yeah raising  Musashi would be amazing, and personally I would feel it would be ethical if the human remains were respectfully transferred to another resting place.

Edited by Admiral_Thrawn_1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,338 posts
2,701 battles
Just now, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Yamato would need functional main guns if the plan was to donate an exact replica. Lol of course 18 inch shells are not just layng around so even if you did get it built n the US I doubt they would be concerned.   I doubt a US Shipyard would even be able to handle a ship Yamato size, more than likely Japan would undertake the construction.

 

You seriously think the US doesn't have a shipyard to build such a ship?

 

It's not like they build something that's over 100,000 tons and 1,000 ft long. 

 

1280px-Bow_view_of_USS_Gerald_R._Ford_(CVN-78)_underway_on_8_April_2017.thumb.JPG.1b931af54703017df631c29c860fc00b.JPG

 

Oh wait.....

 

Yeah good luck getting Japan to build it's own symbol of Imperial conquest without internal or external pressures rising, even if they could build it, seeing how the largest military spec ship they've recently build was of similar length to Yamato.....only a lot less heavy. I'm not sure you could get a US company large enough to do it anyway, Yamato's plans and the techniques to build large battleships have largely been lost to time. 

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,273
[RKLES]
Members
7,213 posts
9,006 battles
1 minute ago, xX_Critical_ClopOut69_Xx said:

 

You seriously think the US doesn't have a shipyard to build such a ship?

 

It's not like they build something that's over 100,000 tons and 1,000 ft long. 

 

1280px-Bow_view_of_USS_Gerald_R._Ford_(CVN-78)_underway_on_8_April_2017.thumb.JPG.1b931af54703017df631c29c860fc00b.JPG

 

Oh wait.....

 

Yeah good luck getting Japan to build it's own symbol of Imperial conquest without internal or external pressures rising, even if they could build it, seeing how the largest military spec ship they've recently build was of similar length to Yamato.....only a lot less heavy. I'm not sure you could get a US company large enough to do it anyway, Yamato's plans and the techniques to build large battleships have largely been lost to time. 

Only problem with US is there a Shipyard that would accept a civilian work order? Of course there are Military shipyards, but I doubt they would ever consider doing the project lol.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,338 posts
2,701 battles
Just now, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Only problem with US is there a Shipyard that would accept a civilian work order? Of course there are Military shipyards, but I doubt they would ever consider doing the project lol.

 

Japan has the same issue here, the USN shipyards are all building Ford classes.

 

Good luck getting a civilian ship yard to create a battleship, sounds like a mess. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,273
[RKLES]
Members
7,213 posts
9,006 battles
3 minutes ago, xX_Critical_ClopOut69_Xx said:

 

Japan has the same issue here, the USN shipyards are all building Ford classes.

 

Good luck getting a civilian ship yard to create a battleship, sounds like a mess. 

I know of some shipyards  that can handle that size of vessel because they build the largest cargo ships in the world. :Smile_Default:

I would present the proposal to Japan and then offer them the chance to build it and if they declined the construction part of it then I would go to the other shipyards that I know would build it as long as you have the cash for it lol.

Edited by Admiral_Thrawn_1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
502
[LOU1]
Members
3,049 posts
8,134 battles

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,338 posts
2,701 battles
4 minutes ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

I know of some shipyards  that can handle that size of vessel because they build the largest cargo ships in the world. :Smile_Default:

I would present the proposal to Japan and then offer them the chance to build it and if they declined the construction part of it then I would go to the other shipyards that I know would build it as long as you have the cash for it lol.

 

I don't think you are understanding me. 

 

1.) Yamato's original design and construction schematics were destroyed/lost during Japan's surrender, these were extremely classified documents and it is unlikely any complete copies survive, you NEED these to recreate the interior of the ship. 

 

2.) Modern manufacturing is not familiar with creating large caliber naval artillery and thick armor plating, armor types such as Vickers face hardened is not produced anymore. The sheer sizes and heaviness of her armored portions would make it unwieldy to handle in production.

 

3.) Yamato would be built to military standards, which includes her excessive subdivision, underwater defenses and layered ship bottoms. Civilian shipyards are not familiar to doing this, only military ships are build to such standards. 

 

4.) The techniques used to build ships like Yamato are not longer used. The industry does not build whole ships from the keel up anymore, most if not all ships are build in prebuild pieces and put together, Yamato could not effectively be built like this due to her large solid pieces of armor. Boilers of that nature are also no longer produced.

 

5.) You would also have to create her catapults, rangefinders, hundreds of AA/secondary weapons and their mounts, model seaplanes, smoke stacks, radar sets and so on. 

 

6.) If something goes wrong with the ship, she would be almost impossible to cut apart and successfully put back together due to her subdivision and armor. 

 

7.) The Japanese in general are not allowed to own weapons and the government is not allowed to own completely offensive weapons of war, which even a disarmed battleship would be seen as. 

 

8.) The costs finding, producing and putting all of this data and plans into a real ship would likely be an excessively large number, dwarfing the ships original costs. 

 

 

Even if money is not an object, building an accurate Yamato is simply not possible with modern technology without extreme setbacks and problems.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,297
[SOUP]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
7,570 posts
11 minutes ago, xX_Critical_ClopOut69_Xx said:

building an accurate Yamato is simply not possible with modern technology without extreme setbacks and problems.  

Simple, do what that Chinese company is planning to do with a modernized version of the Titanic; make the closest possible version with the information and technology available

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,338 posts
2,701 battles
Just now, Chobittsu said:

Simple, do what that Chinese company is planning to do with a modernized version of the Titanic; make the closest possible version with the information and technology available

The problem is, Yamato isn't a cruise liner. Altering the design to remove armor or compartments will simply not work.

 

A warship is nothing like a cruiser ship, it is not practical at all. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,297
[SOUP]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
7,570 posts
Just now, xX_Critical_ClopOut69_Xx said:

it is not practical at all. 

Building a battleship in modern times isn't practical either, this is a hypothetical situation.    Grow an imagination

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,338 posts
2,701 battles
Just now, Chobittsu said:

Building a battleship in modern times isn't practical either, this is a hypothetical situation.    Grow an imagination

 

Anything is hypothetically possible when you ignore reality:Smile_hiding: 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
729
[-K-]
[-K-]
Supertester
1,847 posts
6,884 battles

We already have a life sized replica, just make it more authentic. :Smile-_tongue:

Saves money too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×