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Drunken_Shooter

An Idea for AP!

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Ok this came to mind if HE can and does start fires, why not make AP start small floods since you are poking holes into ships?

I know the rage will start about such topic but seriously its would even out. Whats your take on this folks? 

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I believe that 'feature' was in some of the Alpha or Beta versions.  It proved to be hilariously broken.  

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7 minutes ago, _V12 said:

I believe that 'feature' was in some of the Alpha or Beta versions.  It proved to be hilariously broken.  

Perhaps it can be  revisited now that the game has had time to mature?

 

Edited by Drunken_Shooter

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HE sets fires, a damage that can be repaired 100% with the Repair Consumable.

AP can deal citadel damage, a damage that can only be repaired 10-30%.

I think this is already balanced.

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Just now, SireneRacker said:

HE sets fires, a damage that can be repaired 100% with the Repair Consumable.

AP can deal citadel damage, a damage that can only be repaired 10-30%.

I think this is already balanced.

 

Right on the money.

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Could not help but think of Empire Total War here and the "hull damage" part of naval combat.

 

Losing Heavy First Rates to flooding in the campaign after a large fight sucked, especially when i was trying to capture them for my fledgling American Navy!

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I'm pretty sure they tested that a while back, but I would personally HATE being flooded when I get shelled, the fire damage is already bad enough. Plus flooding is worse than fires. :fish_panic:

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44 minutes ago, WanderingGhost said:

AP needs no more power, if anything, it needs a bit of that power dialed back just a little.

Uh with shell breaks and deflects and non pens I thinks its alreay dialed back oh and bow on and angled ship do no damage , Yet HE can pen any way it wants from setting fires that last now 1 min plus and ignores all angled armor.

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The "flooding" bar in Alpha was a serious rage point at times. You could flood and sink sometimes at almost full health. Trust me, you don't want it...

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Interestingly, I have caused flooding in lower tier PvE battles by shooting slightly below the water line.  This was earlier this year.  It surprised me the first time I got a couple of flooding ribbons on a ship without torpedoes.  Then I played around with causing it.

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AP needs something more than it has that is not catered for simply by more instantaneous damage, especially on ships you only have one choice of round and that choice is AP.

 

maybe along the line of internal fire (AP) vs. external fire (HE), a chance to flood with plunging over-penetrating shots but in a manner that's different from torpedo flooding with the added quirk that flooding in the same area as an internal fire extinguish the fire.

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2 hours ago, Drunken_Shooter said:

Ok this came to mind if HE can and does start fires, why not make AP start small floods since you are poking holes into ships?

I know the rage will start about such topic but seriously its would even out. Whats your take on this folks? 

 

AP shells already have their bonus effect, citadel damage.   You are far, far, far, far, far, far, far more likely to land a citadel with AP than HE (even in the RN BB line).

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12 minutes ago, Bril01 said:

 

AP shells already have their bonus effect, citadel damage.   You are far, far, far, far, far, far, far more likely to land a citadel with AP than HE (even in the RN BB line).

 

you are far, far, far, far more likely even with your worst HE shots that hit to do damage, I have lost count of the amount of times multiple AP shots from 152mm have seemingly bounced off purported <20mm thick DD's for a grand total of 0 damage at <7km where angle is NOT a factor, and however you try to cut it 0 damage from multiple shots (>8) IS indicative of a problem NOT suffered by HE.

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2 minutes ago, b101uk said:

 

you are far, far, far, far more likely even with your worst HE shots that hit to do damage, I have lost count of the amount of times multiple AP shots from 152mm have seemingly bounced off purported <20mm thick DD's for a grand total of 0 damage at <7km where angle is NOT a factor, and however you try to cut it 0 damage from multiple shots (>8) IS indicative of a problem NOT suffered by HE.

 

If you are bouncing 152mm AP shells off a board side DD you are doing something wrong.  And keep in mind that HE rounds can shatter as well, doing no damage which is why IFHE is such a big bonus for CLs.   Not to mention you can't set a fire on a section already on fire, so to maximize your HE damage you need to hits sections currently not burning.  Both ammo types have their purpose and the ideal target selection and situation.   In my CAs I will switch over to AP for mid range board side shots and back to HE for ranged well angled ships or DDs (I like the module damage and forcing out that damage control).

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47 minutes ago, Bril01 said:

 

If you are bouncing 152mm AP shells off a board side DD you are doing something wrong.  And keep in mind that HE rounds can shatter as well, doing no damage which is why IFHE is such a big bonus for CLs.   Not to mention you can't set a fire on a section already on fire, so to maximize your HE damage you need to hits sections currently not burning.  Both ammo types have their purpose and the ideal target selection and situation.   In my CAs I will switch over to AP for mid range board side shots and back to HE for ranged well angled ships or DDs (I like the module damage and forcing out that damage control).

yes, but not all ships have HE, some just have AP, likewise once its on fire, its easy to keep it on fire with HE.

 

AP needs lots of luck to reach its full potential, HE requires very little, while in reality AP would be a much grater cause of internal fires that are hard to put out and would require you to pump water both into and out of the ship.

 

 

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AP used to be able to cause floods, and it also used to do spalling damage.

 

I used to run around like a madman in an (old) Cleveland melting battleships with 6" AP.

 

It was hilariously overpowered.

 

The flooding damage was just frustrating as heck... it would *not* go well if it came back lol

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2 minutes ago, b101uk said:

yes, but not all ships have HE, some just have AP, likewise once its on fire, its easy to keep it on fire with HE.

 

AP needs lots of luck to reach its full potential, HE requires very little, while in reality AP would be a much grater cause of internal fires that are hard to put out and would require you to pump water both into and out of the ship.

 

 

 

There is a single ship line without HE, the RN CAs and they were given better AP that has been pen values than standard for their caliber. Honestly I am not sure how the resetting a fire actually works.  If the fire was first set by someone else, are you just extending their fire?  Is the fire now yours and the damage counts to your total?  Wonder how that works, I generally just aim for a section not on fire.  AP is more about knowing were to aim and the enemy flashing a bit too much of their board side.  Well unless you have guns big enough to shot thru the nose of a ship into their citadel.

 

 Funny how the high damage tier 10 ships (according to warshisp.today using EU because NA is hosed again) show all the BBs before a single CA.  Clearly that AP ammo is working out pretty well for BBs :)

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3 hours ago, Drunken_Shooter said:

I wad refferring to lite flooding not the same flooding as torps do. lol

 

 

We know what you're talking about.

 

We still say no.

 

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1 hour ago, Bril01 said:

 

If you are bouncing 152mm AP shells off a board side DD you are doing something wrong.

 

Not necessarily. 152mm AP can auto-bounce off of anything thicker than (and including) 11mm... at tier VI, DD hulls start hitting 16mm+ thickness, which means even 203mm AP can bounce off.

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Auto bounce shouldn't come into play against a DD unless they are seriously angled against you right?  At that point you could just switch to targeting the superstructure and not the hull, if you are purely forced to use AP against them.  Not to mention he was discussing ships without HE which would mean the RN CAs and they have a AP that is harder to bounce by design.

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4 hours ago, Bril01 said:

 

AP shells already have their bonus effect, citadel damage.

 

And more damage to start with.

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1 hour ago, Bril01 said:

Auto bounce shouldn't come into play against a DD unless they are seriously angled against you right?  At that point you could just switch to targeting the superstructure and not the hull, if you are purely forced to use AP against them.  Not to mention he was discussing ships without HE which would mean the RN CAs and they have a AP that is harder to bounce by design.

with a dispersion radius that ranges from 120m to 250m at max range, then even at 8km with both you and what your shooting at stationery under ideal conditions, there is NO precisely aiming at the superstructure unless you are talking about the largest ships with lots of superstructure, and even then you have to aim for the main deck height, because of dispersion above and below and left and right of the aim-point, you are talking like we are shooting laser beams.

 

as far as I am aware the RN AP only has a shorter fuse delay, which has nothing to do with propensity to bounce or penetrate more, in fact it will over-penetrate less, it also has less damage than other ~150mm AP

 

the simple fact is, AP should have the chance to cause fires, it should have a chance to cause some type of flooding, after all what is the real world point of having AP that delivers a smaller explosion inside the confines of the ship where most of the flammable stuff is and most of the machinery and most people are.

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6 hours ago, Drunken_Shooter said:

Uh with shell breaks and deflects and non pens I thinks its alreay dialed back oh and bow on and angled ship do no damage , Yet HE can pen any way it wants from setting fires that last now 1 min plus and ignores all angled armor.

Battleship AP against Cruisers would like to speak a word with you...

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