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Citrusss

World of Warships

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Long post. Sorry, I know many won't read so making a warning ahead. 

 

World of Warships

 

Warships

We, the players, as well as developers, seem to focus on a keyword here: warships. Sure, why not? We want to pew-pew big guns, explode ships with torpedoes, sail around the seas and enjoy our mighty boats. There is a separate forum for each class, millions of views on youtube where gurus explain how to play certain classes or particular ships. We enjoy replays of high skilled players and even Twitch is now embedded into the game client. 

 

Most posts on the forum are about ships, what new ones we would like to see, what should be done in terms of balancing and so on. 

And developers listen, we get ships. More and more ships. 

 

World

But is that all we need? Think about it: same game play, same maps - most people who end grinding stick to the ships they like and thus playing same tier bracket, which, in turn, means having 3-4 maps in rotation. In the end the game becomes incredibly boring. I, myself, only play during big events mostly, while in between I just enjoy other games (for now it is Total War: Arena, got lucky to be chosen as a closed beta tester!) 

 

I think we are really forgetting that the game must have other content. WG added campaigns - great, except they are all affixed to Random PvP battles, added missions - fantastic! but who plays them more than once? They do not offer additional content after 1-2 runs. WG even added clans - great, for those who are willing to actively participate and is good in the game as average players are not going to see most of this like it was in team battles (to win games clan officers will be inviting only good players!). 

 

My opinion

I really think, WG should focus more on other than ships. And if community will ask for it - the developers will focus on it. While entire forum is talking about just ships, they will provide us with ships. 

 

For example: single player campaign worth hours of game play and teach new players most of the tricks - sounds good to me. Historical battles - why not? Open world with ability to raid and defend convoys - Awesome! 

 

These ideas pop up here and there and then bashed by other players saying it is unrealistic. And then these people ask about changes for ships. And so we are stuck with only change - more ships. 

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I would say that the addition of a clan base is something other than clans being a social club.

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Interesting thought, and one I can agree with.  The game really hasn't changed all that much, with the exception of adding new ships, which tends to change the play somewhat here and there.  The Campaigns was a good add, but it seems to have flamed out rather quickly.  What the game has really been lacking,, and needing, for a long IMHO is a team play aspect.  Team vs Team or Clan vs Clan, but something outside of the basic Random battle mode.  You can have a limited Div with friends, but that is as far as that goes.  OP divs in Random games causes "rolls".  Fail divs on a team cause "rolls" against.  I am all for getting players together to play, but the next step of allowing those to play against each other needs to happen. 

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7 minutes ago, Citrusss said:

Historical battles - why not? Open world with ability to raid and defend convoys - Awesome! 

 

Might require use of specific ships and perhaps have a open or extended wait time; but I'd go for that.

 

Like second Naval Battle of Guadacanal, 2 BB, 4 DD, (USN,) vs the IJN 'Mob o' BotsTM' might be quite the interesting game. 

 

Or even a First Naval Battle; Imagine being in an Atanta and suddenly a Hiei (Kongo) appears at 5-8k... Some serious pucker factor, but then that's why Atlanta loves AP at point blank ranges.

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Just now, BrushWolf said:

I would say that the addition of a clan base is something other than ships.

The addition of a base does really nothing for game play other than put an emphasis to be in a clan to get some little benefits for it.  I like the idea, but there is no change in the game because of it. 

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1 minute ago, CaptGodzillaPig said:

The addition of a base does really nothing for game play other than put an emphasis to be in a clan to get some little benefits for it.  I like the idea, but there is no change in the game because of it. 

That is true in itself but it is a required step in making clans more than social clubs although that aspect is important.

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Ya lining up and hitting each other over the head is fun and all but open world raiders vs convoys has vast potential also. If you get sunk you go back in the que to control numbers

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2 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

That is true in itself but it is a required step in making clans more than social clubs although that aspect is important.

Ok, but still how does that change the game play?  So groups of people go collect oil to build a base that gives them some little incentives.   Personally I think this idea is biased against non clan people as they don't get the xtra XP or whatever that the clans get.  Why emphasize being in a clan if you aren't going to implement a clan vs clan play? 

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I think it would be a tremendous task and months upon months of work but a "battlefield" type setup would be amazing.  Somehow incorporate WOT, WOWs, WOP into one server.  Carrier aircraft are set up as bombers, fighters, torps, etc.  They can attack tanks, planes, ships, ground targets.   Ships can attack tanks on mainland, or other ships, planes etc.  Tanks are battling tanks and avoiding incoming fire from ships and planes.  It's a dream, I know..  :)

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Just now, CaptGodzillaPig said:

Ok, but still how does that change the game play?  So groups of people go collect oil to build a base that gives them some little incentives.   Personally I think this idea is biased against non clan people as they don't get the xtra XP or whatever that the clans get.  Why emphasize being in a clan if you aren't going to implement a clan vs clan play? 

It is a step towards some form of clan battles.

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4 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

It is a step towards some form of clan battles.

i covered it in the post:

 

29 minutes ago, Citrusss said:

WG even added clans - great, for those who are willing to actively participate and is good in the game as average players are not going to see most of this like it was in team battles (to win games clan officers will be inviting only good players!). 

 

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10 minutes ago, CaptGodzillaPig said:

Ok, but still how does that change the game play?  So groups of people go collect oil to build a base that gives them some little incentives.   Personally I think this idea is biased against non clan people as they don't get the xtra XP or whatever that the clans get.  Why emphasize being in a clan if you aren't going to implement a clan vs clan play? 

Yeah, but the easy cure for that is 'Clans' made of people just there to build the base and use the benefits, and not worried about Clan Wars.  It's already here.

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The distinction you're drawing is something game designers would refer to as being between the "inner" or "primary/secondary" core gameplay loops and the "outer" or "tertiary" gameplay loops.

More info: http://askagamedev.tumblr.com/post/101776602061/progression-or-skill-tree-systems-the-type-you

I'm not sure WoWS would actually benefit from a complex "outermost" loop -- having to wander around looking for convoys to protect/raid actually takes away time from being able to engage in the "inner" (shoot/sink/cap) loop. Lots of players would probably see it as a waste of time that gets in the way of "actually playing the game" (people usually mean the inner loop when they say that).

However, you are right that a game needs to be solid on all levels in order to remain compelling in the long term, and there is room for improvement in the outer loops so that they're not just "get XP, go up tiers, get ships".

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Just now, Citrusss said:

i covered it in the post:

 

 

While you did break the post up properly I missed that and clans have been part of the game for some time now. Piece by piece they are building an end game. I don't playing CV's so I don't care about them but there are players that do like them and appreciate anything new on that front. Every change is not going to benefit every player the same.

1 minute ago, Edgecase said:

The distinction you're drawing is something game designers would refer to as being between the "inner" or "primary/secondary" core gameplay loops and the "outer" or "tertiary" gameplay loops.

More info: http://askagamedev.tumblr.com/post/101776602061/progression-or-skill-tree-systems-the-type-you

I'm not sure WoWS would actually benefit from a complex "outermost" loop -- having to wander around looking for convoys to protect/raid actually takes away time from being able to engage in the "inner" (shoot/sink/cap) loop. Lots of players would probably see it as a waste of time that gets in the way of "actually playing the game" (people usually mean the inner loop when they say that).

However, you are right that a game needs to be solid on all levels in order to remain compelling in the long term, and there is room for improvement in the outer loops so that they're not just "get XP, go up tiers, get ships".

That is actually a completely new game.

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5 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

That is actually a completely new game.

At some level, that's just the old philosophical question about how many parts you can swap out on a car before it's "a different car".

But I agree that major changes to the outer loops could make the game feel significantly different.

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Hunting convoys or the enemy fleet is really a strategic game where this game is all about the tactical fight even the CV's.

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4 hours ago, BrushWolf said:

Hunting convoys or the enemy fleet is really a strategic game where this game is all about the tactical fight even the CV's.

it's not about particular mode but general path for development - more content other than ships

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Just now, Citrusss said:

it's not about particular mode but general path for development - more content other than ships

Very good point.

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6 hours ago, Citrusss said:

Long post. Sorry, I know many won't read so making a warning ahead. 

 

World of Warships

 

Warships

We, the players, as well as developers, seem to focus on a keyword here: warships. Sure, why not? We want to pew-pew big guns, explode ships with torpedoes, sail around the seas and enjoy our mighty boats. There is a separate forum for each class, millions of views on youtube where gurus explain how to play certain classes or particular ships. We enjoy replays of high skilled players and even Twitch is now embedded into the game client. 

 

Most posts on the forum are about ships, what new ones we would like to see, what should be done in terms of balancing and so on. 

And developers listen, we get ships. More and more ships. 

 

World

But is that all we need? Think about it: same game play, same maps - most people who end grinding stick to the ships they like and thus playing same tier bracket, which, in turn, means having 3-4 maps in rotation. In the end the game becomes incredibly boring. I, myself, only play during big events mostly, while in between I just enjoy other games (for now it is Total War: Arena, got lucky to be chosen as a closed beta tester!) 

 

I think we are really forgetting that the game must have other content. WG added campaigns - great, except they are all affixed to Random PvP battles, added missions - fantastic! but who plays them more than once? They do not offer additional content after 1-2 runs. WG even added clans - great, for those who are willing to actively participate and is good in the game as average players are not going to see most of this like it was in team battles (to win games clan officers will be inviting only good players!). 

 

My opinion

I really think, WG should focus more on other than ships. And if community will ask for it - the developers will focus on it. While entire forum is talking about just ships, they will provide us with ships. 

 

For example: single player campaign worth hours of game play and teach new players most of the tricks - sounds good to me. Historical battles - why not? Open world with ability to raid and defend convoys - Awesome! 

 

These ideas pop up here and there and then bashed by other players saying it is unrealistic. And then these people ask about changes for ships. And so we are stuck with only change - more ships. 

Don't get too bent over what they have to offer.

Remember. IT'S A FREE GAME.

As long as players fork over money, why should thy change?

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Just now, LoneStormchaser said:

Don't get too bent over what they have to offer.

Remember. IT'S A FREE GAME.

As long as players fork over money, why should thy change?

to keep player base? relying just on influx of new players is, IMO, a bad practice as eventually there will be a lack of them to keep up the profits.

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All of it, and I do mean all, depends on player base. Pure numbers game. WG can add, programmable, virtually any type of gameplay the base wants. The problem is that the more diverse the gameplay the fewer players per a sectionalized game. Clans will sever, to a great extent, the numbers available for both co-op and random play causing problems for both at numerous times of day. The problem is, for WG, a design that doesn't prohibitively divide the players base as well as queue times. Patience is not a noticeable characteristic of gamers. Primary, of course, is money. No players paying for something on a regular basis to pay for basic operation PLUS some amount of profit and...whitttt....no game in NA.

This is not a critique but a basic analysis. Ideas for solutions needs to start with increasing player base numbers. Just as important is KEEPING those players and that is done in the most basic way - having fun. Simply a 'well done' for those who lost a race is not going to be enough, in general, for gamers. WG is using Free-To-Play, interest in great ships and nationalism to obtain and keep players at the present. I have seen a number of browser and website ads for the game as well. Is that enough? Casual observation says probably the game has peaked in player numbers at the present time for NA. This from the player count visible on the website.

Suggestions? Well, first of all I think Premium Time is way too expensive for money spent. Keep the price but definitely increase the time it buys. Allow players to 'bank' Premium time to use whenever they wish, one day at a time if they like. Set up a 'Looky-Loo' forum where players can make suggestions about purchasable cosmetic items that they want to pay for. Set up another 'Ships Forum' that would list all (as many as possible) ships that WG is presently capable of producing in the game and let players use links to send in their comments and wishes. WG could certainly use this as a factor in planning the future in the vein of giving the customers what they like and/or want. Set up a regular (weekly?) ships give-away rewards program that does NOT require any sort of complex requirements which can break many players abilities to enter due to numerous IRL factors (like the 'torpedo damage' requirements that basically eliminate massive numbers of players who do not want or like torpedo play). CV viability can be addressed by IRL facts that CVs were almost NEVER in range of surface ships. Set CV detection at 2 km for all (air and surface) and that range must be kept by all aircraft and ships. Leave that range and the CV is incapable of being attacked (near invisible?).  Location of CVs was the most difficult factor in combat from their inception. Most detection was from their wakes, not the ships size themselves. CVs keeping below a certain fixed speed level should have their detection at no more than 2km. This immediately gives the CV player more power on the battlefield not directly from damage level ability but makes CV play more desirable and fun.

A poster above suggested a single player co-op campaign for new players to learn. Excellent idea. Give a player a starter ship and play each tier (game provided ship) through tier 5. Completing the campaign training course gives a player, for example a T5 ship of choice from any tree. Again, just simple suggestions, this time for retaining players and reducing the grim 'potato' assaults from more experienced players and adding the 'fun' factor to new players game experience.

Remember - no fun, no more play.

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