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GreyFox78659

GreyFox78659's FAQ Why do CV players suck?

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A guide for those that don't player carriers or those that might some day.

 

Q:Why doesn't my carrier scout for me?

 

A:Carrier players have a finite amount of planes to use. If you are exposing planes to AA or enemy planes with little to no perceivable benefit. So in short you won't get supported. Also going to A when BC was called means your are probably going rogue and not a team player and therefore not worth sending planes to help.

 

Q:Why did my carrier suddenly stop supporting me? 

 

A:Carrier probally is running low or is out of planes. You also might have over extended his reach and the cycle for rearming is to long to be useful. The carrier also might be on fire preventing planes from being serviced. Basically everyone ignored him and he probably needed your help a while back. That is why you need to pay attention to carriers calling for help they cannot defend themselves very well or they would be very overpowered and really broken at that point.

 

Q:Why do carrier players seem to die so fast? 

 

A:Because despite Carriers being described as the most influential ship in the game. Players rarely take the time to defend them and are to busy trying to sink the enemies Carrier. Which also happens to be yours. Teams that protect their carriers don't have normally have this problem and typically get more points as they stay together helping each other out.

 

Q: Why do carrier players try to snipe enemy carriers instead of scouting or killing planes for me?

 

A:Nothing sinks a carrier and therefore stop planes from launching in the first place faster than another Carriers strike force destroying the enemy carrier at the beginning of a match. Even if it fails to sink it the player is now more vulnerable to that roque Destroyer that got through, or is now on fire and unable to service his planes. Most Carrier players don't have emergency takeoff so any fires set interrupt carrier ops or force carrier to use damage control to allow planes to takeoff and land.

 

Q: Why does everyone go for Carriers despite better targets being nearby?

 

I call this Carrier Blindness. It comes from two places. First Carrier are basically easy target themselves. Their planes are the damage dealer and destroying the carrier will stop them. Second is straight emotional Carriers normally are way in the back rarely able to be hit but always making their presence known. That triggers emotions tied to helplessness and turning the tables on something that makes one feel that is a release. 

Edited by GreyFox78659
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Well I have got a Langley only carrier I got.  Problem I have is the grind to get a decent captain leveled up to enjoy all of the necessary captain skills you need.  CVS in my opinion are the worst in terms of captain skill balance.  If you have a 19pt captain and the enemy carrier has a 3 point captain, he/she stands no chance and vise versa.  That's why CVS can either make or break a match.

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2 hours ago, GreyFox78659 said:

Q:Why do carrier players seem to die so fast? 

 

A; Because carrier drivers are too impatient (or ignorant/stupid, depending on how forgiving you wish to be,) to wait for AA to be reduced before attacking.

 

A: Because CV drivers attack into the teeth of overlapping AA bubbles (including the optional possiblity of Defensive Fire,) and get wiped out.

 

A: Because stupid, dumpy, fat, un-maneuverable float-plane fighters are somehow more powerful than an entire squadron of bombers and their forward-firing and tail guns, thus panicking, and/or wiping them out.

Edited by Estimated_Prophet
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4 minutes ago, joris92 said:

What you are trying describe depends on too many factors... Besides what is the goal?

To help those that rarely play CVs to understand the difference and cut down on hostility toward CV players. I had a bad team last night while playing Kaga and after the game was pmed and told to stop playing premium ships and learn to play the game I have a Hiryu I know how to play CVs

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cv players suck cuz wg keeps messing with the cv mechanics i've had the Essex for a while now and not interested in playin cv's till the american strike and air sup. is well balanced. i love the strafing and the ability to strafe out of fighter locks, any ideas...I think they need to work more on MM than anything, a one tier diff for solo random play and 2 tier diff for div, if u wanna bring a lower tier ship in div u should expect to get tiered up..and that [edited] about not having enough players is easily fixed with bots , why should t10 ships be able to farm xp off of helpless t7 and 8 ships in one salvo is beyond me....

 

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2 minutes ago, spook_1971 said:

cv players suck cuz wg keeps messing with the cv mechanics i've had the Essex for a while now and not interested in playin cv's till the american strike and air sup. is well balanced. i love the strafing and the ability to strafe out of fighter locks, any ideas...I think they need to work more on MM than anything, a one tier diff for solo random play and 2 tier diff for div, if u wanna bring a lower tier ship in div u should expect to get tiered up..and that [edited] about not having enough players is easily fixed with bots , why should t10 ships be able to farm xp off of helpless t7 and 8 ships in one salvo is beyond me....

 

That last part is why I tend to coop with my higher tier carriers. Love them but tired of seeing tier 10 in every match.

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15 minutes ago, GreyFox78659 said:

To help those that rarely play CVs to understand the difference and cut down on hostility toward CV players. I had a bad team last night while playing Kaga and after the game was pmed and told to stop playing premium ships and learn to play the game I have a Hiryu I know how to play CVs

But now you give position, because as you described a team should stay together for receiving cover, which means a carrier as well. He has no reason to hump the border when his team is advancing. So getting killed by a destroyer should not be really possible...

 

Perhaps you know how to play a carrier, but when you receive crapfeedback you still need to look at it, think about it and improve where you can. Otherwise ignore it instead of trying to give an explanation. Most of them won't see it anyway.

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Generally if i wanna play cv's i do t 4 or 5 those tiers are still fun....

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10 minutes ago, spook_1971 said:

Generally if i wanna play cv's i do t 4 or 5 those tiers are still fun....

I second that!

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19 minutes ago, joris92 said:

But now you give position, because as you described a team should stay together for receiving cover, which means a carrier as well. He has no reason to hump the border when his team is advancing. So getting killed by a destroyer should not be really possible...

 

Perhaps you know how to play a carrier, but when you receive crapfeedback you still need to look at it, think about it and improve where you can. Otherwise ignore it instead of trying to give an explanation. Most of them won't see it anyway.

I play aggressively so my carrier normally as close as I can get to the center of mass but like last night when playing Hiryu the team called A I got my planes and carrier in position only to see all the Battleships turn to C when my planes spotted two ships heading for A. Those ships seeing no one at A by passed it and went for my carrier. I parked planes, messaged my displeasure at leaving me to the wolves to my teammates and still was the only ship on my team to survive the match. 

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1 hour ago, Wulfgarn said:

Or, you could go the top CV players YouTube page and watch his guides..

 

I'd link, but I'm mobile.

This not a guide it's a FAQ for non cv players or those that might be interested. Those that are interested should continue research with other sources as well 

Edited by GreyFox78659

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Actually for new or less experienced players such as myself, I'd put #1 on the list of why carrier players stink at the door of User Interface. It is by golly, the kludgiest interface I've ever had to utilize. Heck, even some of the old DOS programs had a better interface. It really does get in the way the higher you go. 

 

Number two on my list would be the loss of manual drop/strafe in the low tier carriers. I'm pretty much forced to play my T6 carrier in coop until I get the timings down. How much better it would have been to have it available in 4 and 5. 

 

Strafing as a whole is somewhat strange... you can kill your own planes using it. You would think your own planes would be immune or suffer only minimal damage but no, zap just like the reds. 

 

As others have suggested, perhaps said, all you need to do is look at the latest carrier releases to get an idea of what WoWS/WG thinks carrier are, should be and will be for the foreseeable future. Then realize most of us wanting to play carriers are gonna stink at the 5/6 break. Oh one more thing - playing 4 against 5 and especially 5 against 6 is nuts. Especially the latter - as the tier 5 is gimped. No manual strafe or drops. This really needs fixed. 

 

And it's a simple fix - if a 6 and 5 are in the same match, manual drops/strafing is turned off for all carriers. Done deal. 

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1 hour ago, spook_1971 said:

Generally if i wanna play cv's i do t 4 or 5 those tiers are still fun....

 

51 minutes ago, GreyFox78659 said:

I second that!

 

Pretty much. And generally just in Co-op, to avoid any charges of seal-clubbing.

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4 minutes ago, Herr_Reitz said:

And it's a simple fix - if a 6 and 5 are in the same match, manual drops/strafing is turned off for all carriers. Done deal. 

 

Better yet; TURN IT OFF FOR ALL TIERS.

 

Then add in level five skills again, and add a 'Close Bomber Attack/Ace Fighter Pilot' skill that will substitute for manual attack, and would force CV drivers to choose between that and all the other skills they might get at lower levels; or perhaps force a choice between that and 'Air Supremacy' somehow.

Edited by Estimated_Prophet

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1 minute ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

 

Better yet; TURN IT OFF FOR ALL TIERS.

 

Then add in level five skills again, and add a 'Close Bomber Attack/Ace Fighter Pilot' skill that will substitute for manual attack, and would force CV drivers to choose between that and all the other skills they might get at lower levels.

 

I like the sound of that idea... because there's a lot going on with carriers as it is... I personally enjoy being able to affect the battle directly. When you got a solid team and things are clicking, nothing beats playing a carrier. You get to see some pretty amazing gameplay by your team mates from a carrier - I enjoy that aspect of it as well.

 

You learn what works and what doesn't really fast.

 

Let's  hope WoWS/WG picks up on your idea/suggestion. The sooner the better in my book. 

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8 minutes ago, Herr_Reitz said:

 

I like the sound of that idea... because there's a lot going on with carriers as it is... I personally enjoy being able to affect the battle directly. When you got a solid team and things are clicking, nothing beats playing a carrier. You get to see some pretty amazing gameplay by your team mates from a carrier - I enjoy that aspect of it as well.

 

You learn what works and what doesn't really fast.

 

Let's  hope WoWS/WG picks up on your idea/suggestion. The sooner the better in my book. 

That is why I persevere with Carriers. When it works it's beautiful.

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43 minutes ago, GreyFox78659 said:

This not a guide it's a FAQ for non cv players or those that might be interested. Those that are interested should continue research with other sources s well 

 

 

 

Edited by Wulfgarn
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9 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

 

Better yet; TURN IT OFF FOR ALL TIERS.

 

Then add in level five skills again, and add a 'Close Bomber Attack/Ace Fighter Pilot' skill that will substitute for manual attack, and would force CV drivers to choose between that and all the other skills they might get at lower levels; or perhaps force a choice between that and 'Air Supremacy' somehow.

 

This, basically what I've been saying for over 2 years, dump manual drop, maybe replace it, and rework strafe. They are the two biggest hurdles to actually be able to properly balance CV's.

 

1 hour ago, joris92 said:

But now you give position, because as you described a team should stay together for receiving cover, which means a carrier as well. He has no reason to hump the border when his team is advancing. So getting killed by a destroyer should not be really possible...

 

Perhaps you know how to play a carrier, but when you receive crapfeedback you still need to look at it, think about it and improve where you can. Otherwise ignore it instead of trying to give an explanation. Most of them won't see it anyway.

 

Here's the thing, for me, only time I want AA help, is if I'm IJN and a USN CV is camping outside my AA. However, the ships on my team, should stick together to reduce the enemy CV's ability to attack them. Yes, I have fighters, Yes, I will attempt to intercept them, but there's no guarantee and as another player said "It's not my job to babysit the other 11 ships". The only defense I want from teams, is to stop leaving such huge defensive gaps that a damned cruiser, let alone a DD, gets through and if it does :etc_swear:ing shoot it. CV's can only be so aggressive because, understandably, they have concealment on par with a BB, which becomes an issue when literally your sea detection radius is half the map and everything will focus solely on you, and your the only class that can't attack when set on fire and before you say "they added a skill for that" - it's worthless and a waste of points unless by some chance you ACTUALLY have your planes armed and ready after being set on fire, guess how often that is, If anything, that should be built in as a mechanic, with the skill lowering the penalty, or, Prophet's suggestion taking it's place. To which I say make it a 3 point skill, or swap it with a 4, only because there should be other changes still to balance them further not just make new mandatory CV skills. Like you drop closer but also take a damage nerf to do so.

 

Also - some additions:

- Carriers also don't always scout because while BB's and cruisers can be easy to find, DD's can have only a 2km spotting range maybe less by air, on a 48x48km map.

- Carrier may suck because when bottom tiered, AA can be so high that some ships, even after they get hit with HE rounds and knock some guns out, are effectively immune. Not to mention just straight out overbuffed AA anyway because Cleveland should totally be able to achieve 80% chance per second to down a plane against aircraft 1 tier higher, and that s the more durable ones, with the press of a button.

- They may suck, because they opt to run AS to try and better protect the team, but DB's for USN are as accurate as IJN, meaning sure, they can hit a BB, if they can get close, but if they try to hit that DD or cruiser that's causing problems, well, low chances and they can still totally miss a BB or parked CV. That and AA overbuffed to compensate for jets initially and manual drop still, has made staggering strikes properly to burn an enemy BB down near impossible in some cases.

-The skill gap created by strafing alone creates a huge gap between players who've played a while vs a new CV player because they can literally delete all the planes with the press of a button.

- because CV balance is at best a joke because IJN has fewer fighters and a lower chance to shoot down USN planes every second, and therefore loses that chance faster while running out of ammo faster, where as USN lacks ability to launch effective strikes and no, this is not balance or flavour, this is foolishness, both sides should have equal fighters in regards to ability to hold the air, basically, they need their shoot down chances reversed, and need both be able to actually damage ships.And when we inevitably get the 3rd guaranteed line, UK, and maybe the 4 other possible lines, Germany, Italy, France and Russia, all the same applies to  them.

-Because, while limited, some tiers still see higher tier CV's, that will basically dominate their aircraft because again, Wargaming has not actually balanced fighters. Meaning they run out of fighters, and then run out of bombers with no fighter defense.

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34 minutes ago, WanderingGhost said:

 

This, basically what I've been saying for over 2 years, dump manual drop, maybe replace it, and rework strafe. They are the two biggest hurdles to actually be able to properly balance CV's.

 

 

Here's the thing, for me, only time I want AA help, is if I'm IJN and a USN CV is camping outside my AA. However, the ships on my team, should stick together to reduce the enemy CV's ability to attack them. Yes, I have fighters, Yes, I will attempt to intercept them, but there's no guarantee and as another player said "It's not my job to babysit the other 11 ships". The only defense I want from teams, is to stop leaving such huge defensive gaps that a damned cruiser, let alone a DD, gets through and if it does :etc_swear:ing shoot it. CV's can only be so aggressive because, understandably, they have concealment on par with a BB, which becomes an issue when literally your sea detection radius is half the map and everything will focus solely on you, and your the only class that can't attack when set on fire and before you say "they added a skill for that" - it's worthless and a waste of points unless by some chance you ACTUALLY have your planes armed and ready after being set on fire, guess how often that is, If anything, that should be built in as a mechanic, with the skill lowering the penalty, or, Prophet's suggestion taking it's place. To which I say make it a 3 point skill, or swap it with a 4, only because there should be other changes still to balance them further not just make new mandatory CV skills. Like you drop closer but also take a damage nerf to do so.

 

Also - some additions:

- Carriers also don't always scout because while BB's and cruisers can be easy to find, DD's can have only a 2km spotting range maybe less by air, on a 48x48km map.

- Carrier may suck because when bottom tiered, AA can be so high that some ships, even after they get hit with HE rounds and knock some guns out, are effectively immune. Not to mention just straight out overbuffed AA anyway because Cleveland should totally be able to achieve 80% chance per second to down a plane against aircraft 1 tier higher, and that s the more durable ones, with the press of a button.

- They may suck, because they opt to run AS to try and better protect the team, but DB's for USN are as accurate as IJN, meaning sure, they can hit a BB, if they can get close, but if they try to hit that DD or cruiser that's causing problems, well, low chances and they can still totally miss a BB or parked CV. That and AA overbuffed to compensate for jets initially and manual drop still, has made staggering strikes properly to burn an enemy BB down near impossible in some cases.

-The skill gap created by strafing alone creates a huge gap between players who've played a while vs a new CV player because they can literally delete all the planes with the press of a button.

- because CV balance is at best a joke because IJN has fewer fighters and a lower chance to shoot down USN planes every second, and therefore loses that chance faster while running out of ammo faster, where as USN lacks ability to launch effective strikes and no, this is not balance or flavour, this is foolishness, both sides should have equal fighters in regards to ability to hold the air, basically, they need their shoot down chances reversed, and need both be able to actually damage ships.And when we inevitably get the 3rd guaranteed line, UK, and maybe the 4 other possible lines, Germany, Italy, France and Russia, all the same applies to  them.

-Because, while limited, some tiers still see higher tier CV's, that will basically dominate their aircraft because again, Wargaming has not actually balanced fighters. Meaning they run out of fighters, and then run out of bombers with no fighter defense.

Amen! Preach it brother! Hallelujah!

Edited by GreyFox78659

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Liking what I'm seeing... what bugs me most really, playing, aside from the UI, is putting T5 carriers into battle against T6. The t5 almost always gets slaughtered. 

 

Let's hope they have a wonderous, great plan for the future of carriers. If they get it right I think the game will be so much better. If they get it wrong, could be really, really bad. 

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26 minutes ago, Herr_Reitz said:

Liking what I'm seeing... what bugs me most really, playing, aside from the UI, is putting T5 carriers into battle against T6. The t5 almost always gets slaughtered. 

 

Let's hope they have a wonderous, great plan for the future of carriers. If they get it right I think the game will be so much better. If they get it wrong, could be really, really bad. 

Dump manual drops, strafing, and even out us and ijn done.

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