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IronWolfV

A possible tier 7 USN Graf Spee

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I know the title is misleading but bear with me. I was digging around Spring Styles book 3 and I came across this bad boy:

http://shipscribe.com/styles/S-511/images/s-file/s511-15c.htm

s511-15.jpg

It's one of the concepts for the Alaska. Except this version is about half the weight and 100 feet smaller.

 

She has 6 305mm guns with SHS, 12 127/38 dual turrets, probably about as much low caliber AA as Baltimore and she comes in at 17,200 tons. I'd say perhaps a bigger tier 7 USN Graf Spee? Maybe tier 8? And cruiser of course.

 

But just tossing this out there.

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Oh gosh. With the amount of flip flopping back and forth with Alaska and what she might be is already bad. This might just throw a monkey wrench into the works.

 

 

Hides:Smile_hiding:

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Just now, Lert said:

What's the armor like?

I don't honestly know. Probably something close to original design 5-7 or possibly 9 inches. But with Alaska's design, gun caliber, armor, size went back and forth all over the place. With tonnage if I had to guess 6-7 inches of armor.

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3 minutes ago, IronWolfV said:

I don't honestly know. Probably something close to original design 5-7 or possibly 9 inches. But with Alaska's design, gun caliber, armor, size went back and forth all over the place. With tonnage if I had to guess 6-7 inches of armor.

6" ~ 7" would definitely make it a cruiser in all but armament, though at the top end for it. Personally I think 6x US WWII era 305mm might be a bit much for T6, so your T7 estimate is not a bad call. With 9" armor it might fit better as low tier battleship, since you're talking about more armor than any other cruiser in the game then, by a considerable margin.

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10 minutes ago, Lert said:

6" ~ 7" would definitely make it a cruiser in all but armament, though at the top end for it. Personally I think 6x US WWII era 305mm might be a bit much for T6, so your T7 estimate is not a bad call. With 9" armor it might fit better as low tier battleship, since you're talking about more armor than any other cruiser in the game then, by a considerable margin.

It's kinda like my argument for Alaska being a T7 battlecruiser (battleship by game standards) trading off with Scharnhorst.

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1 minute ago, Doomlock said:

It's kinda like my argument for Alaska being a T7 battlecruiser (battleship by game standards) trading off with Scharnhorst.

T7 battleship is where I'd put Alaska as well.

As for ths ship, it'd depend on the armor profile.

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17 minutes ago, Lert said:

6" ~ 7" would definitely make it a cruiser in all but armament, though at the top end for it. Personally I think 6x US WWII era 305mm might be a bit much for T6, so your T7 estimate is not a bad call. With 9" armor it might fit better as low tier battleship, since you're talking about more armor than any other cruiser in the game then, by a considerable margin.

Again I don't know the actual. But considering she weighs about as much as a Des Moines I'm gonna stick with my guess of 6-7".

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17 minutes ago, Lert said:

6" ~ 7" would definitely make it a cruiser in all but armament, though at the top end for it. Personally I think 6x US WWII era 305mm might be a bit much for T6, so your T7 estimate is not a bad call. With 9" armor it might fit better as low tier battleship, since you're talking about more armor than any other cruiser in the game then, by a considerable margin.

 

9 inches of armor is less than any tech tree BB in the game though. It's as far behind the T4 BBs as it is ahead of the Moskva.

 

It's solidly cruiser armor. Especially considering the lack of torpedo protection.

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I love this concept, I wonder how fast she would be?

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8 minutes ago, Doomlock said:

It's kinda like my argument for Alaska being a T7 battlecruiser (battleship by game standards) trading off with Scharnhorst.

 

It loses to the Scharn, badly.

 

No torps, no secondaries. We'll start with that. No torpedo protection. Then throw in a 14 in belt vs 9. 

 

Sorry, no. It doesn't work as a t7 BB. 

 

What you would get us a Scharn with no torpedos, no secondaries, no torpedo protection and the Dunks belt.  To make up for all of those problems it gets a tiny speed boost and possibly slightly better AA.  Not a good trade, at all.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Grizley said:

9 inches of armor is less than any tech tree BB in the game though. It's as far behind the T4 BBs as it is ahead of the Moskva.

It's ahead of Myogi, Kongou, Ishizuchi and on par with Mikasa.

"But I said tech tree BB"

You don't get to artificially exclude any ship that doesn't agree with you, especially considering this ship would be a premium to begin with if it ever came into the game.

7 minutes ago, Grizley said:

It's solidly cruiser armor. Especially considering the lack of torpedo protection.

It's really not. As for torpedo protection, low tier BBs don't have that much to begin with.

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There's already a tier 7 USN Graf Spee.

 

it's called Alaska. And it'll be a battleship. So I guess it's a USN Scharnhorst.

"But its armor isn't as good as Scharnhorst's! And no torpedoes! And worse secondaries!"

 

Same could be said for Nagato.

Edited by AraAragami
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3 minutes ago, Lert said:

It's ahead of Myogi, Kongou, Ishizuchi and on par with Mikasa.

"But I said tech tree BB"

You don't get to artificially exclude any ship that doesn't agree with you, especially considering this ship would be a premium to begin with if it ever came into the game.

It's really not. As for torpedo protection, low tier BBs barely have any to begin with.

 

Ok, so Alaska as a T3 premium BB?

 

If you mean a T6 BB by low tier, the USN T6 BBs are rocking in the range of 40% torpedo reduction. That's not the 50% of Yamato but it's a hell of a lot better than the Baltimore with what 5%.

Edited by Grizley

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1 minute ago, Grizley said:

Ok, so Alaska as a T4 premium BB?

Alaska as a ~T7 BC, is where I see her.

The ship this thread is about, maybe T4 ~ T5.

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Just now, Lert said:

Alaska as a ~T7 BC, is where I see her.

The ship this thread is about, maybe T4 ~ T5.

 

I'd like you to compare the Alaska to Scharn. Then tell me you think that it should be a T7 BB.

 

You can't.  It would fail terribly.

 

It has the belt of the Dunk. It lacks the secondaries and torps. It is not the same thing.  

 

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Just now, Grizley said:

 

I'd like you to compare the Alaska to Scharn. Then tell me you think that it should be a T7 BB.

 

You can't.  It would fail terribly.

 

It has the belt of the Dunk. It lacks the secondaries and torps. It is not the same thing.  

 

What's that? A tier 7 battleship has less armor and secondaries than Scharnhorst and Gneisnau? And no torpedoes?

 

Better bump Colorado and Nagato down to tier 6 then.

 

Seriously dude this argument is meaningless. Germans always have the best armor and secondaries. Saying another ship in tier doesn't have better armor/secondaries than the Germans excludes every other ship in the tier.

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1 minute ago, Grizley said:

I'd like you to compare the Alaska to Scharn.

This thread isn't about Alaska. Why are you guys all staring yourself blind on Alaska instead of talking about what this thread is about.

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Just now, Lert said:

This thread isn't about Alaska. Why are you guys all staring yourself blind on Alaska instead of talking about what this thread is about.

Because this thread is about paper garbage that was never built and people tend to be drawn towards actual things.

 

Also nobody cares about cruisers when they can fawn over battleships.

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54 minutes ago, IronWolfV said:

I know the title is misleading but bear with me. I was digging around Spring Styles book 3 and I came across this bad boy:

http://shipscribe.com/styles/S-511/images/s-file/s511-15c.htm

s511-15.jpg

It's one of the concepts for the Alaska. Except this version is about half the weight and 100 feet smaller.

 

She has 6 305mm guns with SHS, 12 127/38 dual turrets, probably about as much low caliber AA as Baltimore and she comes in at 17,200 tons. I'd say perhaps a bigger tier 7 USN Graf Spee? Maybe tier 8? And cruiser of course.

 

But just tossing this out there.

 

This i can absolutely dig. The tonnage and the firepower work out very nicely in the right range IMO. The AAA is a worry but thats about it. She's not offering to overwhelm the cruisers at her tier. losing the third turret and half the tonnage costs a lot in performance.

 

3 minutes ago, Lert said:

This thread isn't about Alaska. Why are you guys all staring yourself blind on Alaska instead of talking about what this thread is about.

 

Alaska is the new KGV.

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3 minutes ago, Lert said:

This thread isn't about Alaska. Why are you guys all staring yourself blind on Alaska instead of talking about what this thread is about.

 

It's an Alaska design. Of course the Alaska will come up.

 

Besides, nobody really is waiting for a specific Alaska alternate design, they're good for filling tech tree holes but it doesn't have the draw of the Alaska.

 

T9-10 cruiser, depending on gun buffs.

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My apologies for bringing up Alaska in this thread about this design @IronWolfV I've gone over the reasons why Alaska should be what I think she is numerous times in other threads. This is not the thread for such discussion.

 

I'd say if it were a cruiser, it'd have to be high tier. As a battleship, low tier at either 5 or 6. IMO.

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2 hours ago, AraAragami said:

Because this thread is about paper garbage that was never built and people tend to be drawn towards actual things.

 

Also nobody cares about cruisers when they can fawn over battleships.

Aww don't have your precious ships? If this game wants to grow and evolve, gonna have to start using paper designs.

 

Or for example USN DD line would quit at tier 5 since Nicholas is a fictional ship and the USN cruisers would stop at 4 since Phoenix is a complete paper design.

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