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Reymu

KMS DD line

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ATM my KMS DD captain is 2/10 with PT, EM, LS, and BFT. I'm considering between RPF and AFT for 1st T4, then CE for 2nd T4. That leaves 3 pts, which I think will go into SI as the extra smoke and hydro charge will come in handy. SE is pointless since I tend not to brawl in a DD.

 

It seems possible I could respec out of EM and switch to JoaT once reach the Z-46 with her 10-sec MB rotate. TA seems suicidal.

 

As far as builds, it seems stealth/AA/torp reload is the best. 2nd module is always AA range so my AA is active as soon as a plane finds me; once in a while smart CV notices it's weak and attacks, can't fight that off, but found the AA range helpful in dropping lone fighters.

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Try checking out the captain skill builds on shipcomrade.com

 

And honestly, I can't imagine not taking CE as the first level 4 skill every time on the German DD's.  They're just not gunboats like Russian DD's.  They're much more torp boats that desperately need their concealment buffed.

Edited by Crucis

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Full stealthed my Z-23 (captian, ship module,) and have been decently satisfied with that so far. Seems to fit quite well with how I play DDs in general...

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1 hour ago, Reymu said:

ATM my KMS DD captain is 2/10 with PT, EM, LS, and BFT. I'm considering between RPF and AFT for 1st T4, then CE for 2nd T4. That leaves 3 pts, which I think will go into SI as the extra smoke and hydro charge will come in handy. SE is pointless since I tend not to brawl in a DD.

 

It seems possible I could respec out of EM and switch to JoaT once reach the Z-46 with her 10-sec MB rotate. TA seems suicidal.

 

As far as builds, it seems stealth/AA/torp reload is the best. 2nd module is always AA range so my AA is active as soon as a plane finds me; once in a while smart CV notices it's weak and attacks, can't fight that off, but found the AA range helpful in dropping lone fighters.

 

Here's what I run on my Z-52. I don't have many games in the Z-52 itself yet, but this is what I ran all the way up the line. 

 

German DDs are more torp-boats than gun-boats, albeit they have a nasty sting when they get into a gun-fight with other DDs. 

 

AFT is more of a liability than anything, as you should be getting in close to torp, not long-range HE spamming. You also don't want to be getting spotted further out from your gun bloom. 

 

The only tier 4 skill you need, and it's an absolute need, is CE. Then, stack up on tier 3 skills. Those are what make the German DDs shine. You will be getting in close, so you need SE for more HP, TAE to spam more torps, SI for more hydro/smoke, and then take BFT to double dip on both faster guns and more AA.

 

c8dc42dee3c400cc7cee70df1ab88675.png

 

3a3332f61eda7ed8202d36a81f9396ab.png

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1 hour ago, DOCTOR_CITADEL said:

-snip-

 

Pretty much everything here except for BFT if you run the 150s. Take vigilance to boost your hydro if you do that. Additionally, some will swap PT for PM.

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1 hour ago, pewpewpew42 said:

 

Pretty much everything here except for BFT if you run the 150s. Take vigilance to boost your hydro if you do that. Additionally, some will swap PT for PM.

PM made little difference while I ran it on Hatsu and Shira for extra protection on their torps; BB and CA HE apparently ignore PM entirely. Gone PT since.

 

2 hours ago, DOCTOR_CITADEL said:

 

Here's what I run on my Z-52. I don't have many games in the Z-52 itself yet, but this is what I ran all the way up the line. 

 

German DDs are more torp-boats than gun-boats, albeit they have a nasty sting when they get into a gun-fight with other DDs. 

 

AFT is more of a liability than anything, as you should be getting in close to torp, not long-range HE spamming. You also don't want to be getting spotted further out from your gun bloom. 

 

The only tier 4 skill you need, and it's an absolute need, is CE. Then, stack up on tier 3 skills. Those are what make the German DDs shine. You will be getting in close, so you need SE for more HP, TAE to spam more torps, SI for more hydro/smoke, and then take BFT to double dip on both faster guns and more AA.

 

c8dc42dee3c400cc7cee70df1ab88675.png

 

3a3332f61eda7ed8202d36a81f9396ab.png

See no need of the engine kick module if don't park in smoke. Very rarely beach. Isn't the rudder shift better for torpedobeats?

 

As for 19-point captain build: http://shipcomrade.com/captcalc/1000000001000001001001000000001119

That said, SE does seem a necessary given other DD captains sometimes have it, and it helps limit the impact from a CV's torp.

But with all the stealth build rubbish, RPF is inviting at least for knowing where the closest sucker is.

How to decide between them?

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4 hours ago, Reymu said:

PM made little difference while I ran it on Hatsu and Shira for extra protection on their torps; BB and CA HE apparently ignore PM entirely. Gone PT since.

 

See no need of the engine kick module if don't park in smoke. Very rarely beach. Isn't the rudder shift better for torpedobeats?

 

As for 19-point captain build: http://shipcomrade.com/captcalc/1000000001000001001001000000001119

That said, SE does seem a necessary given other DD captains sometimes have it, and it helps limit the impact from a CV's torp.

But with all the stealth build rubbish, RPF is inviting at least for knowing where the closest sucker is.

How to decide between them?

 

Same reason that I run PT instead. Free (and very valuable) information. 

 

I find faster acceleration better for dodging torps, in my experience. I do sit in smoke quite a bit, so there's that as well. 

 

SE is invaluable for my previously stated reasons. Especially if you get into a fist fight with another DD. Happens quite a bit while trying to use Hydro offensively.  

 

Stealth build is 100% necessary on ALL DDs, except for some Russian ones, imo. RPF is pretty worthless except on IJN DDs imo. 

 

What you do after is up to you. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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At Z-46, the German DD line becomes very different from what they were in T8 and below.

Z-46 and Z-52 can now hunt DDs, as they have the gun DPM HP, stealth, speed and tools to do just that.

To that end, you will want to run a similar loadout to most USN DDs, so CE and SE are essential.

 

RPF is only somewhat useful on Z-23 and below, but I think it is completely useless on Z-46 and Z-52, as you will have plenty of stealth and speed to abruptly run into stealthy red DDs and outgun them with sheer DPM and ship HP.

Edited by MrDeaf
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On 9/18/2017 at 2:50 PM, DOCTOR_CITADEL said:

 

Here's what I run on my Z-52. I don't have many games in the Z-52 itself yet, but this is what I ran all the way up the line. 

 

German DDs are more torp-boats than gun-boats, albeit they have a nasty sting when they get into a gun-fight with other DDs. 

 

AFT is more of a liability than anything, as you should be getting in close to torp, not long-range HE spamming. You also don't want to be getting spotted further out from your gun bloom. 

 

The only tier 4 skill you need, and it's an absolute need, is CE. Then, stack up on tier 3 skills. Those are what make the German DDs shine. You will be getting in close, so you need SE for more HP, TAE to spam more torps, SI for more hydro/smoke, and then take BFT to double dip on both faster guns and more AA.

 

c8dc42dee3c400cc7cee70df1ab88675.png

 

3a3332f61eda7ed8202d36a81f9396ab.png

Your build covers all the basics.  I'd like to add my build that differs ever so slightly.  On my Z-46, I employ smoke about half the time for others so I run the rudder mod.  Also, I just don't like anything above 4 seconds for knife fighting.  I think this mod choice is really a personal preference issue more than performance though.  As for Captain skills, I agree...PT is a must.  LS, SI and SE are also a given. I kinda differ after that.  I use AR simply because it provides a relative massive reduction in my torp reload after contesting those initial caps...with a bonus that it also lowers the gun reload as well.  The torp reload is so small on KM DD's that TAE gives you a modest decrease...but there's nothing wrong with maxing the ships best weapon.  For me, it came down to TAE or BFT.  Since I employed my modules to help my torps, I spent those three points on BFT and threw that last point on PM.  The choice came down to six seconds on my torp reload or lowering my gun reload from 4.0 to 3.6.  And, since I run AR, when would I realize the gain?  Would I want faster guns on that first cap or faster torp reload?  I chose guns, simply because I felt I would realize that small gain more often on that weapons system.  Still, I think one's play style will dictate how they finish out the build: guns or torps.

 

As for the OP, it really depends on what kind of Captain/resources you have.  IFHE works really well with the 150's, but then you're talking about a ship specific build rather than a line build. As for RPF, I actually used it extensively as I learned DD's.  In that application, it was invaluable.  But, as I gained experience, I asked myself: Would I be doing anything different knowing what I know from RPF?  Except for some isolated hunting of DD's at the very end of matches, the answer was usually "no."  In fact, RPF can get you into as much trouble as it saves on that first cap.  Think you know where the lead DD is heading and feel emboldened to cut him off?  He just might be the lead element in a multi-DD attack followed by some fast cruisers.  I know some like to use it to launch torps in a general direction, but I've also found that I prefer a more precise shot.  Finally, in a KM DD, you want to ambush other DD's.  Being located can scare off many easy IJN kills.  Then, there's the notion that you spent 4 points on it when you could have had SE, SI, TAE, or BFT...depending on your build.  For me, RPF was strictly a training tool.

Edited by Uber_Ghost

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22 hours ago, Uber_Ghost said:

For me, it came down to TAE or BFT

 

Why does there have to be a choice? Take both; that's what I'm going to do when I get my last point. 

 

AR is nice, but it requires you to be shot up before it's worth it's salt. Why would you not take BFT and TAE both, and have a faster reload on all of your weapon systems without requiring yourself to take damage (AR) to accomplish the same thing?

 

We both agree that SI and SE are essential. Take the next logical step and boost your gun, torpedos, and AA without requiring yourself to get shot up to get a bonus. If you don't get shot up, you are better off anyway, yeah? You can carry games late-game with full or 3/4 hp. Good luck doing it with 1/4 HP, even with AR. 

 

To each his own, though. 

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1 hour ago, DOCTOR_CITADEL said:

 

Why does there have to be a choice? Take both; that's what I'm going to do when I get my last point.

 

It was a difficult choice, and I can certainly appreciate your path.  Initially, I actually ran your exact setup.  Yet, the AR buff to both the guns and the torps seemed like a more logical, beneficial choice given the numbers after damage.  I also like to take a more pragmatic view of these skills and with that comes the understanding that more often than not, I'm taking damage from something other than the red DD in front of me.  Radar is fairly prevalent...so the matches were I take a huge chunk from being lit up was certainly a consideration.  Perhaps in time I will be able to mitigate damage as effective as you, but until then?  AR seems more prudent.  Also, and perhaps most important, at what point does the amount of health left change my play style without AR?  I found that I could operate at max effectiveness longer with AR than without.  Accordingly, once you accept AR (and since PT, LS, SI, SE, CE are givens), you then decide whether you want TAE or BFT.  I chose BFT simply because I wanted more DPM on that first cap DD encounter.  Also, I don't always fire my torps on cool down, while I always realize a benefit to a faster gun reload.  Still, the numbers with TAE and AR are enticing:           

 

base: 90 sec

base + module: 76 sec

base + module + AR (50% HP): 68 sec

base + module + AR (50% HP) + TAE: 62 sec

 

As for a 1/4 health DD in late game, I'm thinking that I'm spamming more torps than gunning...and the benefit from AR is significant at that point.  Regardless, we're really splitting hairs here.  We're talking about ~7 seconds on an already fast torp reload.  Yet, the fine point here is the issue of taking damage.  I intend to go in harms way and thus accept harm will come my way.  If one can confidently and consistently maintain over 3/4 their health pool leading into late game, then my hat is off to you.  You don't need AR.  All I can say is that if I run into you, then AR is probably my best chance to keep it even...:Smile_glasses:         

We killed each other in a Kutuzov on Kutuzov encounter last week...so I guess a Z-46 on Z-46 encounter is inevitable.  May the luckiest man win... 

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AR, evidently, is more a question of whether I'm confident I can get beaten up, but survive on less than 50% HP for most of the match.

 

I'll probably not AR. Just a minute on the torp reload (after TAE and module) should suffice.

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