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Komrade_Rylo

I've noticed a few things with Conqueror

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32 minutes ago, Prkl8r said:

 

You can play with 457mm now.

 

Don't try and force the rest of us to use a balanced gun setup.

Fixed that for you. 

  • Cool 1

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2 minutes ago, HazardDrake said:

Fixed that for you. 

And yet you are more in favor of taking away options than balancing existing ones.

 

Some people don't like 4x2 gun setups, especially at tier 9 and 10.

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1 hour ago, MrDeaf said:

that's a nub Conqueror then.

Everyone, with even the slightest of understanding of the game, knows that DM cannot bow tank, nor angle tank >406mm shells, because DM only has 27mm plating armor all over.

Add in RNBB shells having a shorter fuse and a properly aimed salvo should flat out delete a DM at any angle.

That's what I was saying. But I've noticed this a lot with the British BBs. They're all flinging HE all the time. It irritates other BBs, but it is a boon for cruisers. A lot of them seem to not know to switch ammo or are just unwilling to do so. Either way, we cruiser players welcome the new BB HE overlords. lol

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1 minute ago, Tzarevitch said:

That's what I was saying. But I've noticed this a lot with the British BBs. They're all flinging HE all the time. It irritates other BBs, but it is a boon for cruisers. A lot of them seem to not know to switch ammo or are just unwilling to do so. Either way, we cruiser players welcome the new BB HE overlords. lol

True enough, I've lost count of how many times I've been happily BBqing a BB with my RN battleship, when a cruiser suddenly shows up full broadside and I only have HE loaded.  HE can still hurt him pretty badly, but at higher tiers it's pretty hard to get devastating strikes with HE.  

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4 hours ago, Fog_Battleship_NCarolina said:

 

Hurry and farm damage b4 they nerf it

 

 6 months is plenty of time :Smile_coin:

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55 minutes ago, m373x said:

 

 6 months is plenty of time :Smile_coin:

 

They won't nerf it before they feel enough people have free xp'd the line and they've sold enough doubloons.

 

Once the bait has been thoroughly taken we make the switch. Wargaming modus operandi.

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19 hours ago, VGLance said:

I don't own a conquered yet but have faced a number of them in both BBs and cruisers and they don't strike me as fear inducing as some people make them out to be. I'm just like, "Is there a fire on it? No? Shoot at it, yes? Shoot at something else unless it's broadside to my AP." 

 

They have the same problem that all the UK BBs do: they can't carry and they don't win. The NA server data on Warships Today is down (as always) but the EU server has interesting data. First, the overall (all time) data for solo PvP games for the T10 BBs, win rate and damage:

Conq 50.23% 104,849
GK   50.21%  84,379
Yam  49.93%  87,387
Mont 48.81%  79,662

 

The Conk has gaudy damage numbers but it is neck and neck with GK in overall win rate. Conk damage is mere damage farming that doesn't translate into wins -- to win you have to be able to kill ships that need killing, when they must be killed. Conk can't do that.

 

Now the two weeks' data. Notice anything?

 

GK   50.53% 85,363
Conq 50.06% 105,090
Yam  49.60% 89,053
Mont 49.31% 85,694
 

Yup. Conq's win rate on the EU server has fallen in the two weeks' data -- it is already starting to fall. The main winner seems to be Monty, whose win rate has risen half a point, and GK, up a quarter point, against Yammy and Conk. 

No doubt it is fun to burn the world, but it won't translate into wins, and as more potatoes reach the Conk, its win rate will continue to fall. I've already reached the point at which I like seeing Conks on the other team: it's one ship that can be annoying but ultimately I know won't help them to win much.

WG should make the UK BBs into actual BBs and not pseudo BBs. Upgrade the UK Almost PiercingTM to real AP, and reduce the fire chance. With the magic heal and low citadels, they will become much better ships.

Edited by Taichunger

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4 hours ago, Prkl8r said:

 

You can play with 457mm now.

 

Don't try and force the rest of us to use a crap gun setup.

It's not crap, it just requires a general ability to aim and select the appropriate ammo.

 

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2 hours ago, Taichunger said:

 

They have the same problem that all the UK BBs do: they can't carry and they don't win. The NA server data on Warships Today is down (as always) but the EU server has interesting data. First, the overall (all time) data for solo PvP games for the T10 BBs, win rate and damage:

Conq 50.23% 104,849
GK   50.21%  84,379
Yam  49.93%  87,387
Mont 48.81%  79,662

 

The Conk has gaudy damage numbers but it is neck and neck with GK in overall win rate. Conk damage is mere damage farming that doesn't translate into wins -- to win you have to be able to kill ships that need killing, when they must be killed. Conk can't do that.

 

Now the two weeks' data. Notice anything?

 

GK   50.53% 85,363
Conq 50.06% 105,090
Yam  49.60% 89,053
Mont 49.31% 85,694
 

Yup. Conq's win rate on the EU server has fallen in the two weeks' data -- it is already starting to fall. The main winner seems to be Monty, whose win rate has risen half a point, and GK, up a quarter point, against Yammy and Conk. 

No doubt it is fun to burn the world, but it won't translate into wins, and as more potatoes reach the Conk, its win rate will continue to fall. I've already reached the point at which I like seeing Conks on the other team: it's one ship that can be annoying but ultimately I know won't help them to win much.

WG should make the UK BBs into actual BBs and not pseudo BBs. Upgrade the UK Almost PiercingTM to real AP, and reduce the fire chance. With the magic heal and low citadels, they will become much better ships.

 

That's some interesting analysis.  I wonder how much it differs if anything from the US knowing that other markets seem to have different styles of play.  Meaning I hear the US tends to be more strategic / massive, less suicidal / aggressive than other markets.  You would think that would give the conqueror an advantage similar to a Henry that relies on DoT. 

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14 hours ago, VGLance said:

 

That's some interesting analysis.  I wonder how much it differs if anything from the US knowing that other markets seem to have different styles of play.  Meaning I hear the US tends to be more strategic / massive, less suicidal / aggressive than other markets.  You would think that would give the conqueror an advantage similar to a Henry that relies on DoT. 

 

The last North America numbers I saw were pretty similar. Damage rates for UK BBs are like 15-25% above the others. Win rates? Not so much. 

Although I have to admit that despite my complaints about UK Almost PiercingTM, I somehow cit a broadside Montana at 15 kms with Lion 419s. Kinda shocked by that. 

Have the UK BBs not been released on RU? I can't find data on them for the RU server. On the Asia server situation is even worse for Conq -- in two weeks' solo data GK is beating it in WR 50.81% to 50.08%, and in overall data Gk is beating it, and Conq is at 49.89%.

I think its stats are inflated by people divisioning Conks because they are veteran players with many friends. If you look at solo data... I'd rather be in GK. But in three ship divisions on Asia, Conq is thumping GK 60.61% to 58.61% at the moment. I wonder if it is the kind of ship that is better off as a support BB in a division...

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2 hours ago, Show_Me_Your_Cits said:

It's not crap, it just requires a general ability to aim and select the appropriate ammo.

 

It is crap. the 457 4x2 setup is terrible because it gives you no advantage to the other tier X BBs that have 12 guns, and it obviously doesn't have the bow pen that Yammy has. 

 

The game mechanics in this game greatly favor number of guns most of the time. The only time that is not true, is when the caliber gives the ability to pen things that the lower caliber can't, which it does not in this case. That's not even mentioning that the 4x2 setup is not competitive at Tier X. Only having 4 guns on the bow does not work that well at high tiers, most people don't play the FDG and that thing even has enough armor to show some side.

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7 hours ago, Prkl8r said:

It is crap. the 457 4x2 setup is terrible because it gives you no advantage to the other tier X BBs that have 12 guns, and it obviously doesn't have the bow pen that Yammy has. 

 

The game mechanics in this game greatly favor number of guns most of the time. The only time that is not true, is when the caliber gives the ability to pen things that the lower caliber can't, which it does not in this case. That's not even mentioning that the 4x2 setup is not competitive at Tier X. Only having 4 guns on the bow does not work that well at high tiers, most people don't play the FDG and that thing even has enough armor to show some side.

You trade number of guns for higher pen on both HE and AP, higher alpha, and better accuracy. The firing angles are such that you can actually use the rear turrets if you're a decent BB captain with half a brain and situational awareness. The "But but but muh bow on gunz!" excuse is a weak argument, because sitting bow on all the time means your playstyle is static and you can't adapt to changing situations. The ship was designed to be tanky and have decent all around performance, not to be the best gunslinger at T10 as well as the most survivable thing afloat. My record damage taken before sinking was 213k... So why does the ship need that ability and point and click derp guns that put up higher average damage than a Hakuryu? 

 

Also, if it's not competitive, why am I averaging ~100kish damage in mine? I've played maybe 3 battles out of 20 something with 419 derp guns. Obviously I'm trash and so is the ship in that configuration, right? It's definitely the T10 Krasny Krym with the 457s for sure. 

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On 9/19/2017 at 11:20 AM, Taichunger said:

The Khab has gaudy damage numbers but it is neck and neck with Z-52 in overall win rate. Khab damage is mere damage farming that doesn't translate into wins -- to win you have to be able to kill ships that need killing, when they must be killed. Khab can't do that.

Yet people still constantly complain about Khab being OP...

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i was doing good dmg with iron duke spamming HE,  then i got QE and using nothing but AP, doing good dmg as well.  so,   may be it is balanced  lol.  it is bit annoying running into lion in my CM getting spammed by HE, but figure it is better than getting citted.  :Smile_teethhappy:

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23 hours ago, Taichunger said:

 

The last North America numbers I saw were pretty similar. Damage rates for UK BBs are like 15-25% above the others. Win rates? Not so much. 

Although I have to admit that despite my complaints about UK Almost PiercingTM, I somehow cit a broadside Montana at 15 kms with Lion 419s. Kinda shocked by that. 

Have the UK BBs not been released on RU? I can't find data on them for the RU server. On the Asia server situation is even worse for Conq -- in two weeks' solo data GK is beating it in WR 50.81% to 50.08%, and in overall data Gk is beating it, and Conq is at 49.89%.

I think its stats are inflated by people divisioning Conks because they are veteran players with many friends. If you look at solo data... I'd rather be in GK. But in three ship divisions on Asia, Conq is thumping GK 60.61% to 58.61% at the moment. I wonder if it is the kind of ship that is better off as a support BB in a division...

 

Conqueror in division play is pretty nasty, especially when you can coordinate focus fire efforts.  She becomes in effect, an over sized CA.  Just ignore that BB icon.  She has that 11.1km stealth, abuse it and sail with your buddies.

 

There is also something else with Conqueror, especially since many are just slinging HE with her.  It doesn't do the catastrophic AP salvos other BBs do against Cruisers.  Montana, Yamato, etc. AP slamming into a Cruiser for multiple citadels and ending even high HP ones happens.  You don't do that spamming even RN BB HE at these tiers.  These upper tier Cruisers are not the typing paper armored CLs of Tier V and below, where Orion, Bellerophon, Iron Duke are laughing it up.  You need SOLID AP to put down quickly those Cruisers.

 

People talk about how good Zao's "trollish armor" is, but even she is prone to getting 1-salvo'd by BB AP.

 

On that same token, Conq spamming HE against BBs works, especially in focus fire efforts.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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Struggles against t10 cruisers but she has twice their hp, enormous heal, not squishy, better HE power, and has their concealment or better. Hmmmm :cap_yes:

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On 18/9/2017 at 0:31 PM, Fog_Battleship_NCarolina said:

So I was skeptical if the ship was actually op or not. I think it's incredibly overpowered in BB on BB combat, but it struggles against t10 cruisers, they are the ones that typically hurt you the most. Other things i've noticed is yamato's hurt a lot, and never, let me repeat this again, NEVER eat torps on the main armor belt. The heal becomes mute once they hit you there. Another thing i've noticed is that if the conq is on low HP, do everything in your power to light it on fire, there is a gap inbetween it's heal ticks where if it's low enough, the heal won't save you from fire damage. Honestly the best way to deal with enemy conqs is spam the sh*t out of it with HE and if you focus fire it, its 32mm of armor make HE damage absolutely brutal, even if you can heal it back you'll still burn down quickly. Also don't be afraid to fire ap in your conq.

 

knNmdME.png

 

 

 

  Uhmmm you are making sound the Conq as an unsinkable ship and just stating the obvious that if being focused fire it will die right away like any other ship will lol

 

7 minutes ago, Cruiser_TakaoKai said:

Struggles against t10 cruisers but she has twice their hp, enormous heal, not squishy, better HE power, and has their concealment or better. Hmmmm :cap_yes:

 

 Conq does not struggle against cruisers believe me, I dont know in what way besides torpedo cruisers charging at you.

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1 minute ago, Pata1985 said:

 

  Uhmmm you are making sound the Conq as an unsinkable ship and just stating the obvious that if being focused fire it will die right away like any other ship will lol

 

 

 Conq does not struggle against cruisers believe me, I dont know in what way besides torpedo cruisers charging at you.

I know that. It's sarcasm. Conqueror doesn't struggle against anything if you're smart enough to use your keyboard

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11 minutes ago, Pata1985 said:

 

  Uhmmm you are making sound the Conq as an unsinkable ship and just stating the obvious that if being focused fire it will die right away like any other ship will lol

 

Even though I just said it struggles against cruisers?

 

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On 9/18/2017 at 4:14 PM, Fog_Battleship_NCarolina said:

I tend to do better with the 419s but the 457s are more enjoyable to play with


I really, REALLY like the 457s. 
I didn't even use the 419s. 
Mostly because I kept my word when I was getting mad about the HMS Montana stuff that if they kept the 457s I'd never use the 419s and I held my word. 
I find it funny the people that were originally losing their MINDS over the idea of another 12 bbl 16" gunned BB quickly changed their tune when videos popped up of it doing insane fire damage, now you can't convince some to play the 18" gunned version even though its still available. 

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12 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

 

Conqueror in division play is pretty nasty, especially when you can coordinate focus fire efforts.  She becomes in effect, an over sized CA.  Just ignore that BB icon.  She has that 11.1km stealth, abuse it and sail with your buddies.

 

There is also something else with Conqueror, especially since many are just slinging HE with her.  It doesn't do the catastrophic AP salvos other BBs do against Cruisers.  Montana, Yamato, etc. AP slamming into a Cruiser for multiple citadels and ending even high HP ones happens.  You don't do that spamming even RN BB HE at these tiers.  These upper tier Cruisers are not the typing paper armored CLs of Tier V and below, where Orion, Bellerophon, Iron Duke are laughing it up.  You need SOLID AP to put down quickly those Cruisers.

 

People talk about how good Zao's "trollish armor" is, but even she is prone to getting 1-salvo'd by BB AP.

 

On that same token, Conq spamming HE against BBs works, especially in focus fire efforts.

eh, RN BBs are nasty to cruisers, even more so low to mid tiers on the tiers where they can't heal and their detection range sucks. 

 

in high tiers, if the cruiser is decent, they will be angled anyways unless caught by suprise or caught in a turn they had to make.    meaning they wouldn't be deleted unless it was a great salvo, even by a yammy.  they can and maybe will take a hard hit, but they will live more often than not.  a few HE hits from a ship like the conq will take off a lot of health, set fires, and break a lot of stuff along the way. cruisers dont have the HP to tank that.   fires hurt cruisers more in general, as they can't go back in stealth if they get stuck on fire, or really have the HP to burn like a BB.  not to mention you can't really angle against it to minimize damage like you would against AP, because it is HE.(that goes for any class tho)

 

btw, i think i played with you yesterday.  I didn't know you were in the match until i died and saw what happened on the other side of the map.  i couldn't do enough at a and B.   if rng was a little more friendly, the broadside yamato and DM would of ate cits rather than overpens and a pen or 2. 

 

Spoiler

F10F86350B7AC1668BF0FE3799AE7700767F7F0D

 

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If a BB let's a Cruiser kill it reliably at Tier 10 it's doing something wrong.

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8 hours ago, Battlecruiser_RenownMkI said:


I really, REALLY like the 457s. 
I didn't even use the 419s. 
Mostly because I kept my word when I was getting mad about the HMS Montana stuff that if they kept the 457s I'd never use the 419s and I held my word. 
I find it funny the people that were originally losing their MINDS over the idea of another 12 bbl 16" gunned BB quickly changed their tune when videos popped up of it doing insane fire damage, now you can't convince some to play the 18" gunned version even though its still available. 

Good for you, that's why it's nice to have options. Let people use the option that suits their playstyle best.

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On 9/18/2017 at 10:43 AM, GUNSTAR_THE_LEGEND said:

 

Like Business6 said it a recent video take out a Conquerors legs ( any supporting cast) and it will fall victim to most any focused fire, or in my case unchallenged high rate of fire.

that's like the least constructive / actionable advice ever. any ship will die to focused fire without supporting cast. the question is how do you reliably bring superior number to a battle where you can both take out the support cast while also overwhelm it with your own number?

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6 minutes ago, _Dracarys said:

that's like the least constructive / actionable advice ever. any ship will die to focused fire without supporting cast. the question is how do you reliably bring superior number to a battle where you can both take out the support cast while also overwhelm it with your own number?

Against other BBs you take out the support first. Against Conq, you target it first.

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